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How is it debt if the payments are being taken from someone’s checking account?

So you're saying the mortgage on my house isn't debt because I've set up auto-pay for the bank to automatically withdrawal the payments every month? Sweet, I'm debt free!
 
It's just a subscription model.

It isn't a subscription model. It's an alternative financing model.

Apple music is a subscription model. You stop paying and Apple stops access. But you do not owe anything after that. You own nothing and you own nothing.

If you purchase a phone on installment payments, you can't just decide to stop paying and return the phone. It's the same as financing an automobile.

The fact that you can trade in a phone after a period of time is the same idea of trading in a car. You get rid of your current phone/car and cancel the debt, but acquire a new phone/car (a.k.a. asset) and incur a new liability.
 
because everyone who wanted an XR, bought one last year
And what about all of customers who weren't ready for a new XR last year? There are many more of those people built up over past 3-4 years than the XR customers from just this past year.
 
Phone debt is such a silly thing. Even if it is 0% APR through a carrier or Apple, it is still debt. People buying things that they can't afford otherwise.

My sister is trading in her XS for an 11. I'm like, why? Why be perpetually paying for a phone? And why put yourself in debt over a cell phone?

You know when someone offers you interest free money you should always take it. Also, you should never pay your bills before they are due.
 
So you're saying the mortgage on my house isn't debt because I've set up auto-pay for the bank to automatically withdrawal the payments every month? Sweet, I'm debt free!

That’s not at all what I’m saying.

If you have $10,000 in your checking account and the total cost of your iPhone is $1500 and the payments are taken out of the same account then what’s the big deal?

I’m not comparing a residential mortgage to an iPhone payment plan. Moral of the story is... Do what you want. If someone wants to pay monthly for an iPhone I have zero idea why people are so up in arms about it. People are in debt over so many different things that cost way more money.

I guess I’ll just never understand so many people’s logic on this forum.
 
What people say: WE WANT CHEAPER IPHONES!!!1111
What people do: buy the most expensive iphones


in 2016 you had the 7 649 dollars and the 7Plus in 800 dollars, the maximum of Apple, in 2019 you have the 11Pro in 999 dollars and it is the intermediate, the maximum 1099 dollars.

People want the maximum as before at moderate prices, not a "standard" version as is the Iphone 11, at the price that the good ones were sold before.
 
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Phone debt is such a silly thing. Even if it is 0% APR through a carrier or Apple, it is still debt. People buying things that they can't afford otherwise.

My sister is trading in her XS for an 11. I'm like, why? Why be perpetually paying for a phone? And why put yourself in debt over a cell phone?

Time-value of money is a thing. A dollar is worth more today than it is tomorrow. So I give T-Mobile my dollars later when they're not worth as much.
 
This is so vague. Saying 55% to make it seem like its some home run compared to the non Pro, but in reality, it could be as simple as numbers for the NON Pro are down this year as no one is upgrading.

Last year, most did not want to spend $1k on a phone so they purchased the XR. Those XR users aren't upgrading again, so since the XR out sold the other models, a lot of the customer base isn't upgrading.

I just got the Pro Max...I haven't upgraded since the 7+. I went from upgrading EVERY SINGLE YEAR under Jobs to I think just twice under Cook. Make the phones cheaper and you will see the numbers Jobs put out.

This reminds me of when the Board told Jobs to increase the price on his computer in the 80's and he kept saying no. Same concept, except we don't have Jobs to control this anymore.

Why did Apple drop the price of the 11 this year by $50? Because even with the numbers the XR put last year, it was over priced. Speaks volumes.

At least they put an effort to conform. Now if only they would do the same for the Pro's. I don't give a crap if my Pro costs $200 and you know it, if someone is so damn insecure they need to show off its an expensive phone then Apple shouldn't penalize the rest of us for those people. $900 is a great price point of the Pro Max at 128GB. I bet the numbers would go up at least 10%.
 
Here’s a fun comparison between the iPhone 11 and the iPhone XS, from John Gruber’s page where he posted the original files. There’s so much detail in the iPhone 11 Night mode shot - the XS one looks like mud. I cropped in a bit and made this side by side:

View attachment 859334

https://daringfireball.net/2019/09/the_iphone_11_and_iphones_11_pro

To clarify:

The iPhone XS photo is on the left. Photos depict a comparison between iPhone XS and iPhone 11.
 
Phone debt is such a silly thing. Even if it is 0% APR through a carrier or Apple, it is still debt. People buying things that they can't afford otherwise.

My sister is trading in her XS for an 11. I'm like, why? Why be perpetually paying for a phone? And why put yourself in debt over a cell phone?

If I can get a 0% finance on something I’ll take it. If I have the money in the first place then I can pay it off whenever suits me.

I think there’s a different argument for getting into more debt than you can afford. Two very different things.
 
I'm an XS MAX owner buying/trading in for the 11 Pro Max.

And to the guy wondering why finance - when I could buy outright - because its nicer to pay just a little bit interest free instead of the whole amount up front. I could buy many 11 Max phones, in cash if I preferred but this helps budget money over time. Plus, when next years phone comes around, I can do the same thing.

I will also pay less per month with the upgrade. I was paying $45 per month (approx) for XS Max Pro 256 GB. And will now pay $35 for the 11 Pro Max 512 GB.

I'm upgrading for double the memory (going from 256 to 512), Wifi 6 and the better battery. Also, as an unexpected perk, I will get the Apple TV+ for a year (would've checked it out anyway.) Oh, and the nice camera upgrades.

I was given $600 credit for the phone (represents about how much I've paid in already). Sure I could've sold it on the market myself as I've done countless other iPhones, iPads and Macs, but me being 50 years old, that little bit of extra time for the hassle and general craigslist/facebook marketplace stress, is more than I have time for.

The one big thing I now appreciate is - take care of yourself in the little time we have on this planet. Have fun, enjoy the little things and learn to play. For me, these little gadgets are all of that and more. My 3 year old son has helped me appreciate all of this and so much more again.

I had a 6 Plus, 6S Plus, and 7 Plus on the AT&T Next every year program before downsizing in 17 due to the lack of an X Max/Plus. Didn’t see any reason to upgrade last year and was wary after having something smaller in my pocket of going back up in size. The Plus was always a bit bulky for the pocket and I use THE thinnest case out there. But even more wary of the Max b/c I felt that even though dimensionally it was no larger than a Plus has been, with the edge to edge it became 2 handed use or had to use reachability to get the upper 1/3. Though for reading webpages and emails I wouldn’t mind more real estate. Biggest thing I miss from my Plus phones is the keyboard was a little wider, and the X keyboard feels more cramped.

Your argument almost convinced me to go get a XXS Max / Pro Plus, however while the notion of bettering my battery life sounds great, I have a hard time getting a new phone when it feels like it’s just a better camera.
 
Yikes! The Pro is outselling the lower priced model? People do like their cameras and Paris Green.

The title is misleading, two phones have combined 55% pre-orders, meaning the 11 has 45% on its own?
 
I said it before and I’ll say it again, Kia has ABSOLUTELY no idea how many iPhones have been sold fact! It’s pure unadulterated guess work by him and really isn’t worth a front page article.

Ive no doubt it’ll sell well initially, but the mans purely guessing which ones are selling best, Apple won’t even disclose to its biggest share holders it’s sales figures, an analyst is never going to know.
 
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