Kuo: iPhone 14 Plus Pre-Orders Worse Than iPhone 13 Mini, Product Strategy 'Fails'

[xpxp2002]

Dropping one camera creates more internal space for a bigger battery. I thought ProMotion draws more power than regular as Apple called 14 plus the best battery in an iphone, not 14 Pro Max. I guess that’s YMMV

According to Apple, the 13 Pro had better battery life than its non-Pro sibling despite the Pro having a smaller battery.

All iPhone 13 Models Feature Significantly Improved Battery Life, Up to 2.5 Hours Longer for iPhone 13 Pro Max

With the addition of new low-power displays, a more efficient A15 chip, and larger batteries, the iPhone 13 and 13 Pro models feature significant...

www.macrumors.com

The ‌iPhone 13‌ supports up to 19 hours of video playback (up to 15 hours streaming) and up to 75 hours of audio playback.

According to Apple, the ‌iPhone 13 Pro‌ supports up to 22 hours of video playback, up to 20 hours of streaming video playback, and up to 75 hours of audio playback.

iPhone 13 Teardowns Reveal Battery Capacities Across All Four Models

With all four iPhone 13 models beginning to arrive to customers around the world, teardowns of the devices have started to surface on YouTube....

www.macrumors.com

• iPhone 13: 3,227 mAh
• iPhone 13 Pro: 3,095 mAh

 

[antonrg]

I have a 13 mini and the other day I picked up my old XR -- which is the same size as the regular 14 -- and found it atrociously large. If Apple keeps this up they may never sell me another iPhone.

Had exact same feeling when I picked up my partner's 11 the other day. It's just crazy! 13 mini is perfect.

 

[djphat2000]

Supply Chain.
Chip Shortage.
Inflation.
World Wide economic issues.
War in Ukraine.
NATO assisting with weapons, supplies, money, etc.
Issues due to China COVID-19 shutdowns.
Issues with China's economy.
EU currency failing (now at parity) vs. US Dollar.
Still low interest rates in the EU vs. US which is raising interest rates.


Not sure if the above has anything to do with the prices going up in the EU and other parts of the world.
Or if it has anything to do with the fact that the regular iPhone 14/Plus did not get any CPU upgrades. Or storage limitations (increases in space over previous models). Just seems likely to me at least, that it has something to do with it.

I'm willing to bet the option to not release a new iPhone 14 (even with expected weaker sales). Was not really an option as far as running a business goes. And that they saved what limited SOC's that they could produce for the Pro family of phones only. Tim Cook is a logistics guy. And lots of these decisions happen far enough back that once you commit, that's it. We are still waiting on M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme? SOC's for the iMac Pro and MacPro computers. This sounds like a balancing act to keep all systems feed with "something" while we wait for production (and the world) to get back to normal.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Saladin12]

The 14 Plus is aimed at people who primarily care about having the larger screen and it is 200 cheaper than the ProMax.

200 is not enough to make that difference. The Plus, at the price it is, doesn't make sense as an offering. Unless Apple is ONLY using it as an upsell.
You want an iPhone? Buy iPhone 14
You want a big iPhone? Buy iPhone 14 Pro Max
You want a big phone at a good price? Buy an android

There are not enough people who DO NOT fall into none of the above. In my opinion, of course. Now if the Plus was 100 cheaper, then you can see people defaulting to that as the 'main' iPhone. As it stands, people who wanted a big iPhone in the last however many years have been buying the Pro Max, they will not downgrade to the Plus. The others who have wanted a big iPhone, but have an android, will not be enticed by the price of this - not when you can get a much better specced big phone on that side of the mobile world. The others who have been getting the 6.1 iPhones aren't going to upgrade to the Plus because it's too dangerously close to the Pro prices.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where pricing was discussed at Apple because I'm struggling to understand the rationale here.

 

[EugW]

Here in Canada, a 256GB 14 Plus is $1399 where a 256GB 14 Pro Max is $1699.

Anybody who would spend $1399 on a phone would spend $1699, and I imagine that's what the majority will choose.

The budget-conscious folks I know have been going for the 13 or 14 at $999 and $1099 respectively.

Like in the US, in Canada a ton of iPhone sales are through the carriers, on a monthly tab and/or subsidized by the monthly plan. So for example, the iPhone 14 Pro Max 128 would be CA$800 down, but the iPhone 14 Plus 128 would be CA$500 down. That's a whopping 60% difference in price up front.

 

[aaadktda]

Where I live the 14 Plus is 1140 euros including tax for the 128GB version. Good luck selling it at that price, Apple!

 

[TechLord]

The prices have gone up by 100s in Europe, there’s an economic crisis and the iPhone 13 has the same chip for a lower price. Not surprising. Pros will always sell well at this stage since there’s the enthusiasts who order on day one, every single year the pros outsell the standard models for the first few months.

I think you’ll see higher 12/13 sales this year, or people just not buying. Rumoured iPhone SE 4 based on the XR design could be a hit.

 

[ChrisGerber87]

my mom might get the Plus one as well because she is using the 8 Plus model now. Might try to get her to go pro so it will not be as old when she upgrades again in 5-6 years.

 

[Orange Bat]

I believe Apple should go back to the “S” numbering. The non-Pro 14s are clearly “S” models With very little new, exciting features to bring people in. Most people are on a 2 year replacement cycle (now moving to 3 year) and there is very little reason at this point to release a new phone every year. Making an “S” phone would lower expectations for those years and consumers would know exactly what they were getting.

I also think Apple should consider breaking out of their standard yearly release model. We all know to look for new iPhones in September and wait a few months for carriers to offer great deals on newer phones. I know a lot of people who want new phones but are going to wait and not pre-order. If Apple mixed it up occasionally, releasing phones in spring and summer sometimes, it would be much more exciting to see what they have to offer.

 

[Jrshelby]

BTW, you should be aware that there are two important difference between 13 and 14: RAM 4GB -> 6GB and much much better thermal structure. It has already been revealed that there is a high chance 14 Pro will be less performant than 14 Plus, simply because 14/14 Plus has better thermal and can make A15 perform better, while A16 will still be thermally constraint.
(This situation is basically the same as in 13PM, where 13 Pro Max is actually less performant than SE 3... because it virtually lose frequency whenever you do anything.

I thought it was opposite because the 14 pros have a new heat dissipation feature so as not to overheat like the 12 pro and 13 pros were. Plus the 4nm process for the 16 bionic should help to run cooler as well.

 

[Saladin12]

But then the question may become, why buy a 64GB iPhone 12 when you can get a two year newer iPhone 14 with twice the storage for just $100 more?

If they wanted to give more price separation between the 14/14 Plus and 14 Pro/14 Pro Max models, I think increasing the Pro/Pro Max models would've been a better option.

You make a good point to be fair. I guess two options -

1. Bring the iPhone 12 price down to 549 or 529
2. Get rid of it entirely

Option 1 makes most sense here.

I will never advocate for your second point because, while from a (greedy) business perspective that makes sense, from a consumer perspective that's a terrible terrible idea. The whole point of my post is that the standard 14s are overpriced. It's THEIR price that needs to change, not the Pros.

But look, I'm just a dude on a forum who just ordered the 14 Pro Max - so my input here is somewhat irrelevant and probably wrong. Just my opinion on what I think would boost sales of the Plus and provide customers with a bit more value for money.

 

[TallManNY]

The Mini failed for two years. How does it make sense to bring it back at $700 to start? It doesn't. Instead Apple will keep it in the lineup and it will reach a lower price point where it will sell better. Then they can just update it every 2-3 years instead and call it the 'iPhone Mini'. No numbers needed.

Fail is a strong word. Remember that Apple sells hundreds of millions of iPhones each year. The mini sells in the millions each year. Supply constraints is a very real issue and Apple may have simplified supply chain by reducing form factors; not to mention the mini is the more challenging of the phones to make because of the size constraints. I agree with you that they won't permanently abandon that size. An SE type release every 2 or 3 years makes sense to me. But I think it will still be called [whatever number] mini because they will make the internals and camera the same.

 

[GraXXoR]

Long Post Executive Summary (TLWR):

It's not looking pretty for Apple's iPhone 14 series sales this year in Japan.

------------​

Here in Japan, the 14 series has increased by nearly 40% over the cost of the 13 at release due to combined strong dollar vs yen AND Apple's across the board price rise AND recent high inflation here in Japan.

I myself bought a 11 Pro Max with 256Gb ram back in 2019 for 129,000 yen.
Yet now the 14 BASE MODEL (NOT EVEN PLUS) costs basically the same:
With HALF THE RAM, one less camera, an aluminium chassis, shorter battery life and smaller screen!

Apple can f**k that for a game of soldiers!

I've never seen so many old iPhones as I have recently... iPhone 8, X and 11 series are still everywhere. A few have 12s and there's the very very occasional 13 dark green I see on the train from time to time.

Out of curiosity, I polled nearly 50 of my 200 or so regular Tokyo customers and NOBODY has admitted to ordering a 14! NOT ONE SINGLE CUSTOMER out of 50. All cited concern at their financial situation and in any case, lack of new features as their reason. Most opted for a new battery as needed.

Admittedly, this is purely a single anecdote, but my customers are mostly university educated with at least a modicum of expendable income at the very least.

Perhaps one reason is that the second memory tier (256gb) stainless steel Pro models has morphed into the 14 Pro Max WITH EXACTLY THE SAME 256 GB RAM as an old iPhone 11 but costing nearly 200,000 Yen or about three month's Tokyo rent!
Which is a MASSIVE 50% increase in price for the same positioned item in the lineup!

I know Japanese people always had a reputation for cutting edge and accepting relatively high prices, but given the average male workers' salary (when you ignore skyrocketing CEO and disproportionately massive upper management salary boosts) has declined in actual mathematical terms -not just real terms- I predict that Japanese people may no longer be a leading high-ticket-item Apple customer this year.

In fact when I went into the major Apple Store here in Ginza this Sunday to see the new Apple Watch 8 Ultra, the Apple staff were almost unable to engage any of the "customers" that walked through the door. They were standing around in vast numbers (probably brought in to manage the assumed crowds) awkwardly looking out of place as most of the "customers" were just shaking their heads and waving the staff away on approch, indicating no intention of actually ordering anything.
Most were merely waiting for their "Genius" Bar appointments, it seems, since there was a queue to the rear elevator to the top floor.

 

[xpxp2002]

I think a lot of people are also missing the price concerns because you're looking at full MSRP, when in reality nobody other than we enthusiasts pay that upfront. Most consumers finance their phone with Apple or with a carrier whenever they decide to upgrade. Carriers offer trade-in discounts and new customer/new line discounts all the time. Beyond that, they spread those payments across 24-36 months.

For any ordinary consumer considering whether to save money with the 14 Plus vs 14 Pro Max, it's not $200. It's more like the difference between $42 and $47/mo. Sure, it's technically more expensive, but an extra $5-6/mo for the Pro model will be much easier for most consumers to swallow. Most won't even think about the total cost outlay over that time period.

 

[EugW]

I have a 13 mini and the other day I picked up my old XR -- which is the same size as the regular 14 -- and found it atrociously large. If Apple keeps this up they may never sell me another iPhone.

The XR is significantly larger than the regular 14.

iPhone 14: 146.7 mm x 71.5 mm x 7.8 mm = 81815 mm3
iPhone XR: 150.9 mm x 75.7 mm x 8.3 mm = 94812 mm3 (+16%)

 

[babyexercise]

Long Post Executive Summary (TLWR):

It's not looking pretty for Apple's iPhone 14 series sales this year in Japan.

------------​

Here in Japan, the 14 series has increased by nearly 40% over the cost of the 13 at release due to combined strong dollar vs yen AND Apple's across the board price rise AND recent high inflation here in Japan.

I myself bought a 11 Pro Max with 256Gb ram back in 2019 for 129,000 yen.
Yet now the 14 BASE MODEL (NOT EVEN PLUS) costs basically the same:
With HALF THE RAM, one less camera, an aluminium chassis, shorter battery life and smaller screen!

Apple can f**k that for a game of soldiers!

I've never seen so many old iPhones as I have recently... iPhone 8, X and 11 series are still everywhere. A few have 12s and there's the very very occasional 13 dark green I see on the train from time to time.

Out of curiosity, I polled nearly 50 of my 200 or so regular Tokyo customers and NOBODY has admitted to ordering a 14! NOT ONE SINGLE CUSTOMER out of 50. All cited concern at their financial situation and in any case, lack of new features as their reason. Most opted for a new battery as needed.

Admittedly, this is purely a single anecdote, but my customers are mostly university educated with at least a modicum of expendable income at the very least.

Perhaps one reason is that the second memory tier (256gb) stainless steel Pro models has morphed into the 14 Pro Max WITH EXACTLY THE SAME 256 GB RAM as an old iPhone 11 but costing nearly 200,000 Yen or about three month's Tokyo rent!
Which is a MASSIVE 50% increase in price for the same positioned item in the lineup!

I know Japanese people always had a reputation for cutting edge and accepting relatively high prices, but given the average male workers' salary (when you ignore skyrocketing CEO and disproportionately massive upper management salary boosts) has declined in actual mathematical terms -not just real terms- I predict that Japanese people may no longer be a leading high-ticket-item Apple customer this year.

In fact when I went into the major Apple Store here in Ginza this Sunday to see the new Apple Watch 8 Ultra, the Apple staff were almost unable to engage any of the "customers" that walked through the door. They were standing around in vast numbers (probably brought in to manage the assumed crowds) awkwardly looking out of place as most of the "customers" were just shaking their heads and waving the staff away on approch, indicating no intention of actually ordering anything.
Most were merely waiting for their "Genius" Bar appointments, it seems, since there was a queue to the rear elevator to the top floor.

Japanese just loves iphone and Apple knows it, so Apple does what greedy people would do.

 

[darngooddesign]

200 is not enough to make that difference. The Plus, at the price it is, doesn't make sense as an offering. Unless Apple is ONLY using it as an upsell.
You want an iPhone? Buy iPhone 14
You want a big iPhone? Buy iPhone 14 Pro Max
You want a big phone at a good price? Buy an android

There are not enough people who DO NOT fall into none of the above. In my opinion, of course. Now if the Plus was 100 cheaper, then you can see people defaulting to that as the 'main' iPhone. As it stands, people who wanted a big iPhone in the last however many years have been buying the Pro Max, they will not downgrade to the Plus. The others who have wanted a big iPhone, but have an android, will not be enticed by the price of this - not when you can get a much better specced big phone on that side of the mobile world. The others who have been getting the 6.1 iPhones aren't going to upgrade to the Plus because it's too dangerously close to the Pro prices.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where pricing was discussed at Apple because I'm struggling to understand the rationale here.

The rational was that previously in the US you had to pay $300 more than the base 14 to get a larger iPhone, now you only have to pay $100.

 

[joeblow7777]

This. Early adopters, the "must have it on launch day" people, go for the Pro models. It's been like this every year.

This doesn't tell the whole story, but for perspective, even now you can still go on Apple's Canadian website and pre-order a regular 14 with an expected launch day delivery, and preorders have been open for 3 days.
I finalized my Pro Max order just 15 minutes after pre-orders went live and my expected delivery is almost 2-3 weeks after launch. Either they have a WAY smaller supply of pro models, or you're right that most of the people preordering are enthusiasts who will opt for Pro models.

 

[jweinraub]

Honestly not surprised by this. Buy a 13 Pro Max instead.

I am still on a XS. And the 14 did not interest me at all. Disappointed there is no SIM tray. I hope 14S/15 puts it back. This isn't the same thing as the 3.5 mm audio port, though it would be nice if that were to come back too, especially on a humongous 14 Max Pro++ Alpha Omicron Edition (or something). I will wait anyway next year for the USB-C version and maybe next year we will get 120 Hz....60 Hz, still, is beyond obscene at this point.

I prefer to keep my XS until it dies, but I am seeing intermittent flickers, and sometimes a green line flicker, which all of my previous later model phones exhibited prior to their deaths. If it lasts another year, awesome, if not, maybe I will get a 13 cheap on ebay and get the 15 next year.

I think though the forced annual release schedule is what is causing this to trend downward. Just release new devices when they're ready, not on a schedule.

 

[ghanwani]

JPM begs to differ.
"In the US, Week 1 delivery timing for the 14 and 14 Plus tracks to the first available dates (Sept. 16 and Oct. 7), which is consistent with both the 13 mini and 13 tracking to the first available dates..."

New Apple iPhones and Apple Watches are off to impressive start: JPMorgan

Here comes the next catalyst for Apple's stock.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[TeeWrecks]

Glad it failed. Apple should never roll out a lackluster update like that again. If they didn’t introduce the dynamic island I’d find it hard to believe that many would’ve upgraded to the pros as well this year

 

[Saladin12]

The rational was that previously in the US you had to pay $300 more than the base 14 to get a larger iPhone, now you only have to pay $100.

I hear ya - and I'm still for keeping the Plus at a 100 premium over the standard 14 - just think both devices should be 100 cheaper

 

[nordique]

Tough to gauge because these are mass market devices which are not typically purchased on launch day, whereas launch day is typically driven by enthusiasts

 

[erikkfi]

The XR is significantly larger than the regular 14.

iPhone 14: 146.7 mm x 71.5 mm x 7.8 mm = 81815 mm3
iPhone XR: 150.9 mm x 75.7 mm x 8.3 mm = 94812 mm3 (+16%)

Good call, I went ahead and corrected it. Although I did briefly have a 13 Pro and found that, like the XR, it was just too wide to hold comfortably.

 

[SpotOnT]

Even accounting for exchange rates and taxes, prices are about an additional 10% higher in Europe.

Gotcha. I guess my thought was that the increase in price is down to the dropped value of the euro. When I look at how much people are saying the cost of the iPhone went up where they live, that corresponds pretty well with how much the euro has dropped compared to the dollar over the last year.

As for the 10% difference: did you take into account taxes in the US? Many people don’t realize, and I am not directly accusing you of this, that the price Apple advertises in the US does not include local taxes. Local taxes can range from zero to over 10%, depending on your state/city, although 6-7% is usually a good rough estimate.