Lawsuit Against Apple's Faulty Butterfly Keyboards Moves Forward

sirozha

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2008
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Except that almost everyone who has one loves them and has had no problems with them. I think it would make a better story on social influencing, that actually defective design.

I'd love just one of these "OMG there are so bad" types to come up with any statistics whatsoever. Wouldn't the after market warranty providers have a number? Certainly if they are repairing them, they must no how many
That’s pure BS. More people have problems with them than those who don’t.
 

Marzzz

macrumors regular
Nov 1, 2002
199
134
The Desert
I am as big an Apple Fanboi as anyone, but the keyboard on my late 2016 15” MBP failed and had to be replaced, which was a huge PITA. And I use Dragon Dictate for most of my input...
 

FlyingDutch

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Aug 21, 2019
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"Many" lawsuits in the US are frivolous - and class actions usually do not benefit the consumer....However, in this case, Apple has been selling a known defective keyboard. The internal numbers are much, much higher than 2%. The best we can hope for as consumers is for Apple to never repeat this mistake - and to receive some financial punishment.
And you can show us those “internal” numbers, right ?
 

Mainsail

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2010
1,300
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that version 3 of the butterfly design basically corrected any issues. It then became an matter of preference and not functionality.

So in the eyes of Apple, the issue was resolved...but by then there had been so much bad publicity surrounding the term butterfly keyboard, that Apple did an about face. They had to. Even if there was nothing further to fix. To restore the confidence of millions of potential MacBook Pro buyers moving forward.

I think you are generally right. The 3rd generation KB largely corrected the problem, and it is now primarily about preference (KB feel) rather than reliability. I am actually surprised at how many people have posted that they prefer the feel of the butterfly KB. I own a 2019 MBA. Nice computer. No reliability issues. Personally, the butterfly KB is fine for me, but I really have no strong preference.

There are PR issues, but I think they are somewhat overblown. On this forum, we can easily get the impression that the average consumer is tracking this stuff as closely as we are. They are not. For everyday MBA consumers, I would be surprised if 10% even know what type of KB mechanism is under the hood.
 
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FlyingDutch

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Aug 21, 2019
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Am I the minority who doesn’t mind the butterfly keyboard? I haven’t had any problems with it. I do, however, like Apple’s magic keyboard more because of its key travel and satisfying click... I’m looking forward to when Apple introduces the scissor keyboard on the smaller MacBook Pro.
No. You are not the minority. You most probably are the majority, but less louder than the complainers...
 

nekton1

macrumors 6502a
Apr 15, 2010
628
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Asia
In a glass half-empty sense, Apple failed you, but in a glass half-full sense, you'll be getting a new battery every 2 years b/c the repair replaces the entire top half of the bottom case.

I agree with this! After getting mine repaired and the genius told me “when it fails again you got 2 more years to keep replacing it” I was thinking so what your saying is in 2 years I gotta buy a new MacBook or pay out of pocket.. Apple failed big time here!
 
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CarlJ

macrumors 68040
Feb 23, 2004
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The story of this keyboard would make a great product design seminar. This is just as bad as the Samsung foldable screen.
Fifteen or twenty years from now there's likely to be an enlightening chapter in a book about what the arguments and/or personality quirks were that kept this thing shipping in new machines for so long.
 

Glockworkorange

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Feb 10, 2015
2,360
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And you can show us those “internal” numbers, right ?
I am sure the numbers are high. I mean, you get an extended warranty on the butterfly keyboards right out of the box, as opposed to the 16 inch, where you just get the one year warranty.

Would you be okay if he said "I'll bet the internal numbers are much, much higher than 2%"?

Because I think that is what he was saying. Nobody but Apple "knows" the numbers, but Apple was clearly disturbed enough by whatever they saw to offer a bananas warranty and re-engineer the keyboard.
 

FlyingDutch

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Aug 21, 2019
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I disagree with you, this issue is actually very widespread and growing. Mine started to have issues typing a few months ago and I didn’t even know about the keyboard problems until I googled it in September.

This keyboard issue is ridiculous, I was at the Apple store last week getting my laptop fixed when the genius told me a whopping 100+ were in line in front of me to get their keyboard replaced. I didn’t believe him until the morning I went in to pick up mine and they sat me at a table with 8 others who all had their keyboard replaced. All entered within 5 min of each other!! And even the genius told me the keyboard will fail again since it’s not a fix... apple really failed here.
I simply don’t believe story like this.
100+ customers in a single Apple store looking for a keyboard replacement . Sure.
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors demi-goddess
Oct 20, 2011
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Am I the minority who doesn’t mind the butterfly keyboard? I haven’t had any problems with it. I do, however, like Apple’s magic keyboard more because of its key travel and satisfying click... I’m looking forward to when Apple introduces the scissor keyboard on the smaller MacBook Pro.
The butterfly keyboard wouldn't be as hated if it were more reliable.
 
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eric89074

macrumors regular
Sep 19, 2012
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Apple should be required to fix keyboards free of charge 10 years from the warranty end date on any laptops using the butterfly keyboard. It’s one of the worst things they’ve done.
 
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FlyingDutch

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Aug 21, 2019
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You didn't have any "numbers" with your idiotic claim so it was fair game on your remarks. There were enough numbers for a civil suit. This isn't the same type of suit that you'd like to attribute with patent infringement claims. Get off Apple's tip.
Even three or four people could be enough for a civil suit, so the class action doesn’t mean anything in term of numbers
 

CarlJ

macrumors 68040
Feb 23, 2004
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Waste of everyone's time. Nothing meaningful comes out of class action suits.

The keyboard was redesigned. Let's move on.
The one meaningful thing they could do for the owners of these machines would be to devise a drop-in replacement keyboard, using all the same mounting hardware as the butterfly keyboards, but with the new scissor key mechanisms, so when a machine comes in for service, they could replace the keyboard with one that will no longer have the problem (it'd be more complicated, of course, because it'd be remanufacturing the "top case" parts that come in, to add this new keyboard, then use those to "repair" the next machines coming in for service). Short of that, they're simply swapping out known defective parts for new, known defective, parts until the machines (or users) finally give up for other reasons.

The lawsuit will make lawyers wealthy and get a bunch of people a check for $5. The new machines (hopefully the 16" is the first of many) will eventually wash away the problem, but it's going to take a long time.
 

CarlJ

macrumors 68040
Feb 23, 2004
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San Diego, CA, USA
I simply don’t believe story like this.
100+ customers in a single Apple store looking for a keyboard replacement . Sure.
I didn't read that as 100 people milling around in the store right then waiting for replacements, rather that the queue (of butterfly-keyboard-related support incidents) that had to be worked through between when he brought his machine in, and when he got it back, was in the neighborhood of 100 laptops.
 

Naraxus

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Oct 13, 2016
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Stand by it all you want. Class action lawsuits have a huge failure rate and when they do succeed, are almost always meaningless for the consumer and do not materially hurt the company sued. Fact.

They are almost always a complete waste of time except for lawyers.

Some of the biggest class action suits ever are for companies still around and the others are accounting fraud or health related. They are slaps on the wrist at worst. There has never been a material one against a tech company.
Very much true. Also they usually get tied up in courts for decades before being resolved, if they ever do
 
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Costino1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 1, 2012
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I have a 2018 MBP and im the rare person who loves the keyboard, but yesterday my "E" key starting crunching and getting stuck. Its fine now, but I'm sure it'll happen again.

I would love to get it fixed, but I'm sure id have to put a $3000 deposit on my CC for a loaner laptop in the mail and be without my MBP for a month. It is a hassle.

------

Forgot to make a logical point in my original post...ha

Me being an owner of a MBP would love to see this lawsuit come to fruition. Give me $X of dollars so I can set it aside and keep it as a savings account for a future failure.
 

MacBH928

macrumors 68040
May 17, 2008
3,598
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Can you sue a company for releasing unreliable hardware/software? On that basis there are a lot of companies that should be sued.