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Lion Clean Install Requires Snow Leopard Disk?

Scrumper said:
That would be fine but you're assuming you will ever get to see the .dmg file. The problem with downloading from the app store is it installs things immediately, without saving any reusable install file, so unfortunately that wouldn't work. :(
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Lion will work the same way Xcode does. You download the installer.app, it does not install it for you.

So yes, you WILL have a chance to open it up and find the .dmg
 
This article is misleading. There is no way of OBTAINING lion without having 10.6 installed first. But once you have lion you can burn it onto a DVD or restore the image onto a USB stick and install it on to fresh hard disks all you wish. I have personally installed lion on multiple fresh clean hard disks now from a self created DVD without any issues what so ever. The installation image comes as part of the installation package.

What Steve is referring to is the purchasing process, not the installation process.
 
Wow

Why Apple, why? When I was watching the WWDC 2011 video and he said it was only avaliable for download through the Mac App Store that just ruined it. Is Apple trying to get rid of disks all togethor? I like disks because they don't require me to take up my whole internet connection to download and I can reinstall it whenever wherever. Thanks a lot :apple:. Not everything has to be digital. :mad:
 
ivladster said:
Still easier than Windows 7
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I use Windows 7 every day. Windows 7 is a pretty fine OS. May not be as good as Snow Leopard in some senses, but you definitely can't say that this is "easier than Windows 7" when Apple pulls this garbage.

I'm not sure that your comment makes sense in the first place.
 
Yes, there will be many Mac users burning their own standalone Lion install discs (or USB keys or whathaveyou). Wouldn't be surprised at all if a market for premade standalone Lion install media pops up on eBay.
 
gramirez2012 said:
You only have to do it once, because once Lion is installed, it will put a recovery partition on the hard disk. So you won't need a disc after the initial install.
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A recovery partition doesn't help when the hard drive dies (this is why I use CCC instead of Time Machine, though). Having to keep SL around is stupid. There should at least be a way to create a Lion install for that that want it. How much do you want to bet hackers will make/create one? It reminds me of the old dongle software and laborious dark paper code look-ups for old games like Maniac Mansion on the Amiga and what not. You punish the legitimate users and the hackers have a nice un-protected version with no hassles to use. It's stupid.

Steve is clearly looking to ditch physical media soon. The writing is on the wall so clearly that only the most obstinate people won't see it or believe it. I wouldn't expect DVD-RW drives much longer and you can be sure the Mac will NEVER have Blu-Ray EVER under ANY circumstance (even for professional use beyond 3rd party support which can't play back a full mastered disc).

There's such a thing as moving in new directions and there's doing stupid crap to piss people off only for one's own benefit (i.e. please use the iTunes and App stores so Apple gets all the money and has to compete with NO ONE). Apple is getting too greedy for its own good. It will start to backfire on them soon.
 
I'm surprised at how many people here assume the developer preview of Lion will function the same way as the release version. It might. But it might not. It might not be so easy to get at the dmg in the retail download of Lion.
 
Mr.damien said:
lol, because people here this is real ?

Get a brain, how people with brand new machine not supported by SL will do ?

You think they will have to buy a new mac ? Just lol ...
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Mmm, let's see... Maybe because "people with brand new machine" will obviously be supported by SL? ;)

And hey, people. Haven't you heard about the new thing. It's called Time Machine...
...Mouhahahah now you're caught in the Apple vortex.... foreveeer! ;)
 
Macopotamus said:
i'm running a fresh clean install and i didnt use a snow leopard disk, what's the rage here?
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It is a tempest in a teacup. This will only affect someone who installed an aftermarket drive themselves.

Regardless, Apple is expecting that almost everyone interested in Lion will have already upgraded to Snow Leopard previously so it is a non-issue.

Also, most people do not bother doing a "clean" install anyway. I don't recall ever doing one on a mac. It is more of a PC thing to do because windows tends to put crap all over the hard disk over time.
 
Unless the email was digitally signed, you can't verify its authenticity. Like others have said, we'll almost certainly be able to create a boot/install disk ourselves. Or put it on an old pen drive. It was reported to work on the dev preview.
 
Kyahx said:
Lion will work the same way Xcode does. You download the installer.app, it does not install it for you.

So yes, you WILL have a chance to open it up and find the .dmg
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I really hope you're right about that and if you are, I have no issue with it myself.

I do wonder, however, that although people are saying these things with such confidence, we don't actually know how the final retail version will download. Sure, the developer versions are bound to include a transferrable .dmg file - that makes sense - but this is an unprecedented move by Apple and nobody (except Apple) really knows what different install possibilities there will be for Lion until the official retail version is released and available in its final "for the masses" form. :rolleyes:

Edit: I see ValSalva beat me to it on that point. ;)
 
Anaemik said:
Clearly the whole concept of chronology is completely lost on you.
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Pretty sure you were not even the first person to post it, and if you were, then there was definitely the same post between your initial one and then your complaint about no one sharing your concerns. So no, it is not lost on me.
 
cppguy said:
Unless the email was digitally signed, you can't verify its authenticity. Like others have said, we'll almost certainly be able to create a boot/install disk ourselves. Or put it on an old pen drive. It was reported to work on the dev preview.
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The emails are faked. Steve wouldn't misspell "Leopard". And Steve certainly would never say the word "Sorry"! :D
 
I think my hopes of Apple ever adding Blu-ray have now been dashed. They clearly hate physical media. Apple is becoming a bit of what people have criticized it of being. Maybe they envision a future in which if there is something wrong with a computer a user would always bring it into the Apple Store to be tweaked rather than allowing the user to do a clean install, and perhaps they envision a future of utterly sealed computers where you can't install your own new drive. Actually, I guess that already is the case on all the Macs except the MBP, Mac Pro, and perhaps the MacBook. I suppose the batteries have been sealed for a while now, which I didn't mind. But HDDs fail, and often long before the entire computer, and I like being able to replace mine in my MBP. I think they might move away from that though and make Macs more like iPhones and iPads where the whole thing is sealed and the "old tech" ideas of upgrading and clean installs are ancient history. They want an appliance that just works. Except in making a closed appliance that just works, you create more work for the user when it doesn't just work.

I have noticed the same trend in their software. They have more and more Windows wizard like features to help you through tasks with a certain end goal in mind. But it becomes harder to intuitively do what you want if you want to do something else than what the computer guesses you want to do. iDisk, iPhoto, iWeb, and iMovie come to mind. Garageband not so much, although I haven't used the latest release. I remember the days of iMovie 06 HD, where it didn't guess what you wanted to do. It just gave you three clean slates of tracks where I could put whatever I wanted without it assuming an end result, and it was so easy. I couldn't make the types of movies I did with iMovie 06 HD anymore on my new MBP because I don't "get" the new iMovie.

And to bring it back to point, it appears I won't be able to install a new HDD in my MBP and then install Lion as I had been planning to without a lot of extra effort. I've actually thought of leaving Apple lately, but I do like their hardware. It's funny. It used to be the software that made me put up with Apple's crappy hardware.


Sorry to write so much, but this is just really beyond the pail. They have workers over in China slaving over ever detail of a MBP and shaving the aluminum so finely they're dying from inhalation and explosions of the particles and they can't even machine a DVD? For what, principle? And what is the principle?

I am not going to upgrade via the Mac App store. I've already run into lots of problems with it, and Apple runs it piss poorly when it comes to customer service. It is NOT the best plae to buy Mac apps. It is the ONLY place I have bought Mac apps where I cannot upgrade the apps because of an error message saying I need to sign into my account, and after signing in it repeats the same message. After about 10 e-mails with iTunes customer service they finally did something server side to fix the problem but it came back again. On top of that, MobileMe is still giving me problems, they lose e-mails, I just found out I can't share my calendar when I tried for the first time after being a paying member for years if the other user isn't a MobileMe member, and you can't even sign up for MobileMe anymore! How embarrassing that I tried sharing a calendar and the person I sent it to got an advertisement instead saying they needed to sign up for MobileMe to view my calendar and clicked on a link and saw they couldn't even sign up because MobileMe is becoming defunct! I don't trust them one bit about iCloud.

Sorry again, but I think the sum of things I have noticed lately and felt for a while about Apple shows it is going in the wrong direction. I also feel there is some insider trading going on, which wouldn't surprise me at all given Bob Mansfield's embarrassing trading behavior and the previous backdating scandal.

OK, I'm sorry again, I think I've gotten it all out. I really want to like Apple because I always have, but they need to make better choices.
 
Btw, where does bootcamp fit into all this?

Obviously up to now, youre os dvd had a hidden partition on it that would be visible in windows and install the apple bootcamp software.

Assuming this lion you downlaod can be made into a bootable dvd, will it also contain the bootcamp for windows software?

Or is bootcamp going the way of rosetta?

To kill rosetta and bootcamp in one fell swoop would be tough to take. It was this kind of flexibility that apple offered that i really liked.
 
Pegamush said:
i wonder if they are trying to do all this just to fight hacking..
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It not difficult for a hacker to install Snow Leopard and then update to Lion the same as anyone else. It is more difficult for non-computer people to comprehend why they would need to re-install Snow Leopard in order to install Lion when their hard drive crashes. The ability to create a USB key or DVD-R disc or something similar to restore Lion would be a simple solution.

I already created a USB key version of Snow Leopard to install it on my Netbook. I'm thinking a base install of Lion written out onto a USB key would work just as well as an emergency backup for a given computer. Of course, that's complicated a bit for an existing computer to upgrade since they often have too much on them to backup to a key (largest keys I've seen are 256GB, which is pretty large, really. The key here may be to keep a system partition limited to <256GB on a large hard drive. OTOH, you should backup your drives anyway so an external backup with CCC works best, regardless.)
 
come on. who let one go?

Apple are putting users through unnecessary steps and it stinks.

They are turning into the cowboy opportunists of the computing world. In the same way a cowboy builder will charge you things you do not need. Apple are comfortable selling S Leopard to Leopard users; for them to not use it!

Many will find all this distasteful, patronising and unnecessary.

This is very very wrong guys
Lion stinks of punishment (for Leopard users)
 
Jasoco said:
No, he's right. Apple will always offer a restore "disk" of some sort. Whether it's a DVD or a newfangled USB Flash Drive. And it will definitely have Lion on it once it comes out. Whether or not it will be attached to the computer or free to install anywhere is yet to be determined.
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Does this mean there will be a black market of restore disks of lion since the official position was that the only way to get it will be the MAS?
 
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