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Lion Clean Install Requires Snow Leopard Disk?
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This reminds me of one thing SJ said during the WWDC keynote when describing photo stream or something. He said: "nothing new to learn." In some ways that's good and Apple is clearly targeting people who don't like to use computers. But in many ways a statement like that is very depressing.
I call BS on the email from SJ.
The installer has a DMG in the package - Simply dump the DMG to an external drive / flash drive / DVD and install from it.
I've done this on all 4 of my development boxes - a nice clean install.
The installer has a DMG in the package - Simply dump the DMG to an external drive / flash drive / DVD and install from it.
I've done this on all 4 of my development boxes - a nice clean install.
autrefois
macrumors 65816
Original Post said:
The use of "sorry" is interesting. If this is Steve Jobs, it's nice of him to say that but the phrasing seems uncharacteristic (of his public persona at least).
He can't be that sorry about it, though, can he? Lion doesn't launch until sometime next month. If only there was something that he, as a lowly CEO, could do about this...
The only way I can see this not being a complete PR disaster for power users or those with hard drive failures is there is absolutely no way the released Lion will be on physical media, is for Apple at the very least to offer Snow Leopard for cheap in-store or by mail to people who have purchased Lion and want/need SL to do a clean install.
They would either install SL (presumably 10.6.8) at the Genius Bar for you for free (so that you can subsequently download Lion), or heck, maybe they'd even do the upgrade to Lion for you at the same time. They would of course check your Apple ID to see whether or not you've purchased Lion; if not, you'd be on your own and have to buy SL for full price.
For those not near an Apple Store, you could pay $9.99 for a SL DVD / USB key / etc. to be shipped to you. 10.6.8 will be the shipping version (à la 9.2.2 in days of yore). Then you can download Lion once SL is installed.
This would still be a mess, but a little less of one. Maybe if enough people complain they come up with some solution for people not to have to pay full price for SL just to get Lion back again.
Alright Mr. High and Mighty. What about those of us who are going to buy a new mac w/ Lion pre-installed, are we gona get a SL disk also?
Well, you were too cheap to pay a mere $30 for quite a substantial upgrade in performance, fixes, and new features. So now, in the WORST CASE scenario, you'll need to pay $30+$30=$60. This will jump you ahead 2 major OS releases. Is it really the end of the world? Nobody was expecting Lion to be so cheap, so pretend it's $60 and call it a day. OR, you can just wait till it comes out and then assess if there will be another upgrade option available, which there very well may be. I myself have done a clean install by simply burning the package contents to a DVD, so I'm sure there will be multiple avenues to find it.
Or, you can come here and keep whining about it for the next few weeks, which will probably be your chosen course of action.
Yes, of course this would be simple IF the final retail version allows consumers to actually see the package and get access to the .dmg file like the developer versions do, but the point is, this is simply unknown.
Had to quote this since it is spot on. Excellent post.
I can see proprietary Apple Hard drives soon as well (possibly) Optical is gone as long as Apple is under the current regime. They used the "skate to where the puck is going" thing before. Thing is they are in an arena that is under construction and the puck wont be there for a long time. Choice is a good thing, and right now DD and optical co-excist well together.
Oh well been running Win7 anyway and I like it. Phasing my mac stuff out, thank god I wasn't too invested with a lot of software. I kept using Vegas, and Adobe PC software instead of Mac versions etc... Hell its a good thing MS came along and did what they did back in the day if you look at it from a non Apple perspective.
Apple is heading down a path that I believe will do more harm than good. NO other company could get away with this kind of sh** besides them. And everyone deep down knows this.
I'll assume you don't work in any sort of "IT department", and forgive your ignorance on the subject. I do work in that field, and this news is laughable at best. I'm as big of a Mac defender as anyone out there, I find that I've been on their side when a lot of people weren't, in more than a few situations.
But this is an exception. This is ridiculous, in fact, this is unnacceptable.
I can see a regular user only ever running into a bad hard drive maybe once every year or two, and for them this might not be that terrible. The problem comes for people like me that run into the situation multiple times a day. Apple just successfully doubled the time it will take me to get a system up and running. I now have to wait for two OS's to install. That's like cramming the work and time required to work on two computers, into one computer. Thanks Apple!
I mostly work on PC's, and every time I did I was reminded just how much better I liked the way Apple did things. On a PC you have to deal with their ridiculous software keys, "genuine advantage", and software activation. If it's the second time you've reinstalled a computer in a period of time, you even have to call in and go through a 7 minute activation process. I always told people with Macs that their computers were so much easier because Apple basically just assumed you'd paid for the software, since it only works on their hardware. They weren't a "software company" and their profits didn't depend on software sales, so they could be very lax about their OS. Not anymore.
This sucks sucks sucks sucks sucks!!!! AHHHH!!! PLEASE FIX THIS APPLE!
So was everyone who passed on iphone 3gs and waited for iphone 4 stupid? maybe I just weigh my options a little more than you do. Maybe I value my money a little more than you do. Who knows, but I don't attack people because they made informed decisions. Reasoning with you is probably pointless though. For all I know you have maxed out credit cards that you make minimum payments on and you live in your parent's basement because you have the mindset that it is only x dollars.
Whats saying that that will still work in the final release? In hope to reduce piracy or whatever, Apple may have made it impossible to burn a Lion disk image to a disc.
You miss the point boy.
Users shouldn't have to pay for something they will not use (SL) just to get to Lion. Pride in OS doesn't come into it. SL wasn't very radical to me.
Totally stinks of Apple Power Play.
Not pretty to watch.
Few broken teeth.
And hostilities made
It's just common sense. No waste and ease of use.
And what's saying it's not? As far as I know, Apple has never cared much about piracy in operating systems... Do you know any technology that makes impossible to burn a copy of a disc? Not even Microsoft has been able to do it...
I think there will be an option to create a backup of Lion's install disk, but it's not included in the developer's preview because Apple wants to avoid the distribution of Lion outside the developer's circle.
Thank goodness they'll have $70 BILLION in liquid assets, after this quarter, to keep them afloat
So you think its fine for him to have to pay $30 just to allow him the right to install the latest OS which will be another $30?
You think thats fine? well please sir send me some money if you can just waste it like that thats cool send some my way I could spend it for you as well!
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Its true, but I am optimistic that what I have previously said will still hold true for the installer.
I run a IT shop of over 300+ macs (not labs, all individual) and if what I said breaks you still only have to install it on one mac and make your image to deploy to all your other macs.
lame
And that, my friends, is exactly why Lion is a non-starter. I have several machines to maintain - and no media, no clean-install is a 100% deal killer. This is what happens when companies who have no understanding of IT requirements develop products.
Guess I'll have to wait for Apple to decide to not be stupid about this, or look to migrate to Linux (Windows is definitely not an option).
And that, my friends, is exactly why Lion is a non-starter. I have several machines to maintain - and no media, no clean-install is a 100% deal killer. This is what happens when companies who have no understanding of IT requirements develop products.
Guess I'll have to wait for Apple to decide to not be stupid about this, or look to migrate to Linux (Windows is definitely not an option).
Bull-****.
The average consumer (Apple's main market) is perfectly fine with what they're doing. They just keep buying more Apple gear and handing Apple record quarters. Like the next one will be.
The people who are pissed off all the time are the tech geeks and IT folk. I find that NO ONE else bitches and moans the way you guys do.
So much mindless complaining...
Right now it is pretty simple. People who buy news macs when Lion is released will get a usb recovery disk with it that allows clean install. People who have computers purchased before Lion is released will need SL to download Lion, after which point they can setup recovery disks or DVDs that will allow them to clean install Lion. So, yes you need SL but it really isn't much of an issue at all.
Right now it is pretty simple. People who buy news macs when Lion is released will get a usb recovery disk with it that allows clean install. People who have computers purchased before Lion is released will need SL to download Lion, after which point they can setup recovery disks or DVDs that will allow them to clean install Lion. So, yes you need SL but it really isn't much of an issue at all.