And what is that principle? Really, is there any proof it makes a difference on macs?
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Lion Clean Install Requires Snow Leopard Disk?
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And what is that principle? Really, is there any proof it makes a difference on macs?
Not many people especially in todays financial times will be wanting to spend all that money on a new mac just to get Lion.
It is a potential 30% losing interest in bothering to upgrade if they have to go through those steps and even waste $30 to get an operating system that will allow them to install the newer.
You say count on them going out to get SL for lion right because they are Apple customers?
You could use that same arguement when SL came out... in that case and using your "logic" since they are Apple customers they will just go out and buy.
Then the question is why havnt 30% done that?
Only proof I can stand on, on this subject is our last trip to WWDC. We cornered the OS X Engineers guys and asked them personally. If you had a choice would you upgrade or clean install. First they touted that upgrading is great and we have spent so much time making it a great thing. But at the end of the day the engineers said they would rather clean install.
You still have told me what your authority was for this statement. To me, "only available on MAS" means ONLY available on MAS.
MrSmith
macrumors 68040
No, but it makes me feel better knowing there's no fragmentation on the HDD. Also it clears out all the crap I've collected and don't need since the last update.
Its called precedent. No mac has sold without a recovery disk. And the new MBAs come with USB disks. What on earth makes you think things will change? There is simply no evidence for it. Nothing Apple said suggests otherwise. They said from the beginning Lion will be through the MAS or pre-installed on purchased computers.
Rodimus Prime
macrumors G4
so why is Apple saying FU to those 30%?
Why screw them and force them to pay you more money except for 100% greed.
balamw
Moderator emeritus
Yes and no.
The only way to get all your apps and data from XP to 7 is to upgrade to Vista first and then to 7. XP->7 basically forces you to do a clean install and restore/reinstall.
There will likely be a simple workaround for Lion clean install like the one that allows you to install 7 from upgrade media (despite all of Microsoft's warnings that you NEED an installed and activated license of Windows XP or Vista on your machine) or like the one from Tiger to Snow Leopard (it just works, despite not being licensed that way.).
B
GoKyu
macrumors 65816
Ah, I was hoping I'd be the one to make that joke 🙂
OnTopic: This smells like cost-cutting - after all, that's what nearly all the PC manufacturers are doing - forcing the user to make their own recovery discs, and saving, what...a couple of bucks on *optical media*??
Apple's selling with such a high profit margin, that even if Lion *DOES* give you a backup partition, they should at least throw in the *ONE* disc that Macs generally come with.
So the new Macs that come pre-installed with Lion aren't going to give you a new Lion disc? That would be extremely cheap and lame for a company that prides itself on giving the customer everything they need (the "full experience") when they open the box...
They never said that. They said the upgrade path was only through the MAS. Obviously new computers come with Lion. You don't need to buy a computer, take it home, and then updae it to Lion through the MAS once you have signed up for a MAS account. Seriously is this issue even in genine doubt or are we being difficult here?
Quad5Ny
macrumors 6502a
I did not read the whole thread, but has anyone mentioned how bad of a idea this is if your dual booting OS X/Windows 7?
Also how does this work if you already have 4 partitions and are using Boot Camp? You can only expose the first 4 partitions to Windows when using GPT / Hybrid MBR.
Maybe Apple finally plans to update all firmwares to UEFI 2.x (Win7 needs UEFI 2.x to install to GPT disks) and get rid of BIOS/MBR emulation for Boot Camp (or at least give us a option during the wizard)? 😱
Also how does this work if you already have 4 partitions and are using Boot Camp? You can only expose the first 4 partitions to Windows when using GPT / Hybrid MBR.
Maybe Apple finally plans to update all firmwares to UEFI 2.x (Win7 needs UEFI 2.x to install to GPT disks) and get rid of BIOS/MBR emulation for Boot Camp (or at least give us a option during the wizard)? 😱
I'm unquestionably in the "IT crowd", but I fully heartedly agree with what you're saying. It's almost like my colleagues are actively looking for things to complain about, whether or not they truly believe there's a problem. It gets really old, really fast.
99% of the time I'm on your side, if you really look into why Apple makes the decisions that they make, they really are for the better. If I think back on the past 2 years, I think it's safe to say I've been on Apple's side for every single major decision, even the controversial ones.
But I just can't agree with this one as it's been stated so far. I can't imagine that by the time Lion is released, there won't be a way to do a clean install from a flash drive, but if there isn't, I just can't defend this decision.
Why do you think the new macs won't come with recovery flash disks? Is there any evidence to speculate along these lines whatsoever?
For the record, I'm not complaining about this because I have nothing better to do, I'm complaining about this because it effects my very livelihood. My business is fixing computers, PC's or Macs, and when Apple messes with people's ability to fix their Mac, they mess with my business.
Trust me, there's plenty more things I'd rather be doing right now.
I completely agree on all points. And my comments were obviously not aimed at all geeks or ITs. There are probably more like you than the other kind.
Given that you can't (simply) make a DVD backup of Lion, it seems as though Apple believes all the average user needs is a Restore Partition.
Im a little wary of this. I do like to clean install once every 18 months or so, but recognize I am in the minority.
The reality is Apple has probably the single best analytics data on their users and hardware of any company electronics company in the world. Every time you head to the genius bar with a problem, everything about your hardware is entered in to a database and analyzed. Apple knows how many people actually need replaceable batteries, they know how many people do a clean install. They know these things far better than the anecdotal whining that goes on here (myself included).
Last point. This is just more evidence that iCloud is much, much bigger than what theyve announced so far. Reformatting and clean installs are the relics from last century. The industry is stuck, so Apple is bringing the mountain to Mohammed. The days of having to give even a passing thought to storage are numbered. Like the floppy before it, Apple will stop shipping hard drive based consumer Macs and laptops within the next 2 years. The MacPro within the next 5.
The reality is Apple has probably the single best analytics data on their users and hardware of any company electronics company in the world. Every time you head to the genius bar with a problem, everything about your hardware is entered in to a database and analyzed. Apple knows how many people actually need replaceable batteries, they know how many people do a clean install. They know these things far better than the anecdotal whining that goes on here (myself included).
Last point. This is just more evidence that iCloud is much, much bigger than what theyve announced so far. Reformatting and clean installs are the relics from last century. The industry is stuck, so Apple is bringing the mountain to Mohammed. The days of having to give even a passing thought to storage are numbered. Like the floppy before it, Apple will stop shipping hard drive based consumer Macs and laptops within the next 2 years. The MacPro within the next 5.
This may have been answered in the previous 16 pages but where does this end?
When 10.8 comes will I still have to install 10.6 and upgrade to 10.8? Or even worse 10.6 to 10.7 to 10.8? What happens with 10.12 comes out? Will I still need to have a 10.6 cd to install first before I can upgrade?
I just don't understand, they're going to have to make physical media again at some point, maybe it'll be like every other update comes with media followed by an update. So 10.8 will be a dvd and 10.9 will be an update..
When 10.8 comes will I still have to install 10.6 and upgrade to 10.8? Or even worse 10.6 to 10.7 to 10.8? What happens with 10.12 comes out? Will I still need to have a 10.6 cd to install first before I can upgrade?
I just don't understand, they're going to have to make physical media again at some point, maybe it'll be like every other update comes with media followed by an update. So 10.8 will be a dvd and 10.9 will be an update..
You can do a clean install with the hidden install partition. Doing a periodic clean install would actually be easier (and faster) than it is now.
This is only a concern if you are using a brand new hard drive or you delete that install partition.
There is simply no evidence to this affect whatsoever. Quite the contrary, as evidenced by the developper previews. The whole issue is pretty simple. Apple's stance is this:
At 30$ price point, you can buy and make your own DVDs or Flash Disks. Not happy? Buy Windows, they will give you a DVD disk and charge you for the new OS orders of magnitude more.
Wonderful...4GB of download for an install...let's make installs take 4 hours now. This is a huge leap backwards in all the Apple stands for.
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