Logic Pro X Gets Refresh for Upcoming Mac Pro

[rowspaxe]

The Mac Pro is for proper score writers - you don't need that power. It's aimed at the likes of Hans Zimmer.

I thought of Hans Zimmer when I saw this article. But even the most demanding users will be hard pressed
to max out an imac pro. For audio, ram, cpu, and ports are paramount, graphics are pretty undemanding. That's why many saw the mac mini as a great audio machine.

Also the load is scalable. "Freezing" tracks can greatly optimize work loads.

Production houses are vanity enterprises: they want to impress clients. The mac pro is nothing
if not impressive. Same with ad agencies.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Neither iMac pro nor the iMac are professional level computers that can replace the old Mac Pro. They are barely expandable,

aside from GPUs what do you want to expand to that wouldn't have plenty of bandwidth being made as a TB3 peripheral?

SSD cannot even be upgraded

The SSDs that ship factory from Apple are quite good, nice read/write speeds to them especially now with the T2 RAID controller. You can get up to 4TB native. Beyond that why wouldn't you want external storage? 5GB/s across T3 to a beefy NAS? 40GbE to a SAN that the whole office can share for workflows? You're not going to get 100s of TB shoehorned into the box in any situation so you may as well embrace remote storage and have just a reasonable amount of storage local.

, no PCI,

They certainly all have PCIe. I suppose you mean empty slots? Again, what are you going to be bandwidth choked on as a TB3 attached peripheral that you need to have sit in a PCIe slot?

and the iMac Pro has not many things Pro about it. Same 10 year old external design that can not even adjust the vertical position.

So design = pro? If you have an issue with the design of the iMac Pro then you must love the "trash can" nMP and hate even more the design of the 2019 Mac Pro as it returns to a 35 year old design of tower computer. Also, Vesa mount.

Furthermore, many require to have 2or 3 similar monitors side by side which cannot be achieved with the iMacs.

um, no? LG Ultrafine 5K, shove one on either side if you like.

Your comments clearly show how little you know about music and music plugins. If you do not know, please refrain from making misleading comments. Current sound libraries can easily choke an iMac Pro with 32GB RAM.

good thing you can expand it to up to 256GB of RAM then! Woohoo, your problems are solved, you can order one online now.

 

[greenmeanie]

They use data centers stop spreading your baloney.

The pros that can't afford this hardware most likely don't need this hardware. They can use a $3,000 iMac (8 cores, 40GB RAM self-installed) and be fine.
This new Mac Pro is for professional studios. Think Pixar, Paramount Recording Studios. A $40,000 Mac Pro will pay for itself in months or less for them.

Truth is, this new Mac Pro shouldn't start with such a low configuration... Apple just did that for those who still want it but don't need that cases' expandability... where much of the expense lies.

Apple has all levels covered from 15" MBP to iMac, to iMac Pro, to Mac Pro. No one is left out.

 

[AnakinMac]

Apple provides defined hardware, even in this new modular system it's clear they are funneling customers into MPX modules. Off the shelf graphics cards can't take advantage of the new connector type Apple has built into their board.

MPX can be used as normal PCIe and apple provides standard 8pin aux power supply.

As far as anyone can tell, Nvidia cards still won't even have signed drivers for MacOS.

For Nvidia business, not sure who is lying. Apple says https://imgur.com/a/gUMf2Z2 .

You can't fill it with 3.5" internal drives, the storage modules are custom PCIe based solutions, so we'll have the same 10GbE and TB3 external solutions we're using today with the nMP.

For pro users, just for fail safe, massive storage should be on a separate network storage server. If you want more fast storage, you have at least 3 pcie slot to put either PCIe SSD (like Intel Optane) or PCIe to M.2 card （~$15).

It likely won't support the next generation of graphics cards either as the main board isn't PCIe4. Maybe Nvidia's next gen will still be PCIe3 but again there aren't any drivers. AMD is clearly moving to PCIe4 and who wants to hobble their hot new GPU on a slower bus (or buy a custom Apple spec'ed version that runs more slowly to accommodate that bus). We'll still have the same issue of chipset level functionality being frozen (e.g. no way to upgrade existing systems to TB4 or the aforementioned PCIe4 etc...)

Blame Intel. Anyway, PCIe4 card is backward compatible with PCIe3. GPU is not very sensitive to PCIe bandwidth. x8 vs x16 difference is usually less than 5%.
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/h...h-4-x-Titan-V-GPUs-for-Machine-Learning-1167/
Maybe one day Apple will release a EFI update to make those PCIe 4, who knows..Gigabyte did this to their X470. So who knows.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I've gotta be honest...I wish that Apple and others in the music equipment industry would actually raise the bar when it comes to the costs of equipment to make music! While I get that cheaper equipment can be said to democratise the music making process and allow people to get into making music with a much lower budget, I personally think that this cheaper access to the tools is one of the major reasons why the music industry has suffered so much in recent years!

With more people than ever before able to afford the tools to make music, that doesn't magically increase the percentage of people who have the talent to make music. The result (when these cheaper tools are combined with the democratisation of actually selling music) has resulted in a virtual tsunami of low quality (and often mostly derivative) music which has flooded the market.

That in itself is bad enough but when you consider that these "bedroom producers" who often do it just for "exposure" will then be able to undercut others in terms of pricing then you create a race to the bottom on the value of music which has benefitted precisely nobody!

Back in the "good old days", to release a record - even in the dance music seen which was rarely big budget and has consistently been the most guerrilla form of music making - you still had to invest a fair amount of money in the tools needed (either by purchasing yourself of hiring a studio) and you still had to have a good amount of knowledge about how to actually create music and sounds. Now we live in a time of 1,000 preset plugins, sample packs, tools for building chords and harmonies, pitch correction...so many things that allow a subpar musician/producer to up their game...albeit upping it towards and artificially created "standard" which usually isn't that high!

I know I will get criticised for this viewpoint because "art is art" and what right do I have to criticise...and I get that. But as somebody who believes that, while art may be art, there is still a spectrum of quality, I think that the age of participation trophies has massively spoiled the music industry. I view the music industry in the same way as I view any other industry. To those that feel I'm wrong...would you still be for the democratisation of industries in this way if it meant that there was a good chance that the doctor scheduled to do your open-heart surgery hadn't invested double digits of years of learning and practice and often 6 figures of money into learning their trade...but rather had picked up a cheap "teach yourself surgery" course online and a $1 scalpel?

Yes...I'm being hyperbolic...but I'm just fed up with the current attitude in the world that everybody should be allowed to do whatever they want just because they want to! So to Apple...go for it...price the Mac Pro so that it actually excludes a lot of people from buying it. Because god knows how bad music will sounds if untalented people get the ability to run four times more audio tracks and plugins in Logic...I guess the audio cesspool will become four times deeper...

I both agree and disagree with you. I look back to the era of the Layla as the beginning of the end. Look at how the big studios have fallen since then as so many have the attitude you just described. At the same time I am thrilled that the removal of barriers to entry potentially brings more great performers into the scene that may not have been discovered absent that ability.

All of this is really forms of automation that have been disrupting music production as an industry. This will continue and probably accelerate (no reason to think it won't). Just think, some day we'll have music AIs creating the majority of what we listen to, no human "performer" involved at all

 

[greenmeanie]

Clearly you don't work in education or the business world.

People have been predicting takeover by dumb terminals for many decades. Whether cloud computing finally makes that a mass adopted reality, who knows. It's possible, even plausible. Let's see how Google Stadia fares.

 

[Peperino]

The SSDs that ship factory from Apple are quite good, nice read/write speeds to them especially now with the T2 RAID controller. You can get up to 4TB native. Beyond that why wouldn't you want external storage? 5GB/s across T3 to a beefy NAS? 40GbE to a SAN that the whole office can share for workflows? You're not going to get 100s of TB shoehorned into the box in any situation so you may as well embrace remote storage and have just a reasonable amount of storage local.

No one is questioning if Apple SSD are good or not. You are just another Apple apologizer.
If the SSD goes bad (which they actually do quite often) you need to trash your computer, or take it to a ridiculous expensive Apple repair.
The only reason Apple is doing this is to get more money out of its customers by charging obscene expensive prices for both Apple RAM and SSD.
A 5-8k Pro computer should be able to easily upgrade both RAM and SSD.
No to mention that even the recent iMac upgrade is still shipping with a 5400rpm drive in 2019...so much for Apple innovation.

good thing you can expand it to up to 256GB of RAM then! Woohoo, your problems are solved, you can order one online now.

Problems are NOT solved. Is not just the RAM. it seems that you do not get it. You do no want a computer that have running fans at full speed making noise while making music, among other things.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Clearly you don't work in education or the business world.

definitely not education. absolutely business.
[doublepost=1560527854][/doublepost]

No one is questioning if Apple SSD are good or not. You are just another Apple apologizer.
If the SSD goes bad (which they actually do quite often) you need to trash your computer, or take it to a ridiculous expensive Apple repair.
The only reason Apple is doing this is to get more money out of its customers by charging obscene expensive prices for both Apple RAM and SSD.
A 5-8k Pro computer should be able to easily upgrade both RAM and SSD.
No to mention that even the recent iMac upgrade is still shipping with a 5400rpm drive in 2019...so much for Apple innovation.



Problems are NOT solved. Is not just the RAM. it seems that you do not get it. You do no want a computer that have running fans at full speed making noise while making music, among other things.

given the ad-hominems this will be my last reply to you.

Apple Care+ for your mystery RAM failure. You called the RAM the issue and now you are moving the goalposts. It seems you may be happier with newegg.com, enjoy.

 

[Peperino]

How about a 18core iMac Pro with 256GB Ram and 4TB of SSD with updated Logic Pro?

You know you can max out the config right?

I would love that and take it anyday... as long as RAm and SSD are upgradable like the current Mac Pro.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

MPX can be used as normal PCIe and apple provides standard 8pin aux power supply.


For Nvidia business, not sure who is lying. Apple says https://imgur.com/a/gUMf2Z2 .

I understand that the PCIe slots can be used in standard mode with aux power but I was referring to the secondary slot behind the x16 that not only supplies power (lots of it) but also additional TB3 headers etc... We don't know all that it does yet but certainly abandoning MPX loses whatever advantage is held there.

Nvidia - we may never know. I certainly wish it were an option though.

Interesting links on those other stats. I'll give them a good read when I have some time. thank you!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think what people are saying is that non “pro” users would still like a configurable form factor

I think you’re right. If folks were saying, “Personally, I want a system that Apple doesn’t make.” Then there would be no argument. However, there’s an attempt to phrase it as “Apple is leaving a big hole in their lineup” or “No pro can afford this thing” which leads to the resulting replies.
[doublepost=1560537385][/doublepost]

I guess the audio cesspool will become four times deeper...

So what if it does? I would suggest to you that you don’t go trolling through audio cesspools

 

[nebojsak]

If you need a car you do not need to buy an oversize 18-wheeler truck.

This

According to some people over here, Pro = spends like a sailor, no matter what. I must admit I don't know about such Pros.

Sure many of them will get this MP, but not for their own bucks (people working in big mainstream production studios).

 

[Coconut Bean]

You have a point with not being a successor to the old one, however you would have to skip a generation to make it. No one wanted a successor the previous model. People wanted a successor to the model two generations back. I suppose that's part of the point though anyway.

From that perspective, there's a segment of enthusiasts that wants to have an Apple shell that will run MacOS but stuff it full of commodity internals. Unfortunately I think those days are never coming back. We haven't had a machine like that in what, seven years? Apple provides defined hardware, even in this new modular system it's clear they are funneling customers into MPX modules. Off the shelf graphics cards can't take advantage of the new connector type Apple has built into their board. As far as anyone can tell, Nvidia cards still won't even have signed drivers for MacOS. Even on the high end this is still not a shell that people will simply shove any component they want into (although clearly they have a better chance of making that happen with quite a few). We will pick our modules as BTO components and pay our Apple tax on each of them. We'll have the ability to drop in some third party cards where there isn't a USB/TB external peripheral available. But this isn't a return to the 5,1 even for those of us who justify the cost. You can't fill it with 3.5" internal drives, the storage modules are custom PCIe based solutions, so we'll have the same 10GbE and TB3 external solutions we're using today with the nMP. It likely won't support the next generation of graphics cards either as the main board isn't PCIe4. Maybe Nvidia's next gen will still be PCIe3 but again there aren't any drivers. AMD is clearly moving to PCIe4 and who wants to hobble their hot new GPU on a slower bus (or buy a custom Apple spec'ed version that runs more slowly to accommodate that bus). We'll still have the same issue of chipset level functionality being frozen (e.g. no way to upgrade existing systems to TB4 or the aforementioned PCIe4 etc...) Aside from being able to play legos will Apple provided and select third party modules (which, other than GPU given bus bandwidth demands [yes, I know eGPUs are a thing], could have been TB3 externals) I expect the majority of systems will remain static from purchase to decommissioning making them not much different in approach than the nMP.

Mac Mini isn't that freely user configurable system though either and in its higher BTO specs is a highly capable machine. iMac Pro is a great system, in hind site I should have picked one up on launch while waiting for the Mac Pro to be released (I mistaken thought it was much nearer than it was). Higher spec'ed iMac 5Ks are very capable machines as well. Basically the pro-sumer market isn't neglected by Apple, there's a subset of that population that wants a case stuffing system and that hasn't been Apple for the better part of a decade and really won't be again as far as anyone outside the C-suite of 1 Infinite Loop can tell.

So, yes, thank you (I know this is the internet but I'm not being sarcastic, you helped me see another perspective), I can understand your point about wanting a less expensive system that succeeds the 5,1. Most people expressing displeasure aren't stating it that way though, they are stating that Apple doesn't have a system for semi-strenuous to strenuous workloads at a lower price point. I can empathize with the former but I disagree with the latter.

edit to add: tl;dr version: for those whose issue is that Apple doesn't have a long term upgradeable solution they can afford, the point is kind of moot as even when removing the "they can afford" bit the situation remains the same. Apple doesn't have a long term upgradeable solution. Buy the system that best fits your needs for the (reasonable) period you will use it and plan to upgrade later. At that point point Mac Mini vs iMac vs Mac Pro 2019 form factor becomes much less critical and there's a fit for 99% of users across their line up.

Thank you for a constructive reply. I am more hopeful about the future upgradability of the Mac Pro. I think the support will be pretty alright and I'd say we'll even see Nvidia. But maybe the same will happen with it as the trashcan, neglected after a short while, time will tell.

Personally I was never and likely will never be in market for a higher end device from Apple. In my hobby projects I am very cost sensitive and while I can justify the cost of a MBP for $2000 for personal use as a fairly good deal between an everyday device and an actually usable Unix/Linux machine.

When it comes to professional work, as I am not a creative field the heavy workloads will be operative system agnostic.

That said I'd still love the possibility of building my own Mac and will likely try to do it at some point as a form of hackintosh. But it's definitely not a need, just a wish.

 

[nebojsak]

I think you’re right. If folks were saying, “Personally, I want a system that Apple doesn’t make.” Then there would be no argument. However, there’s an attempt to phrase it as “Apple is leaving a big hole in their lineup” or “No pro can afford this thing” which leads to the resulting replies.

But Apple used to make these back in the day (until release of Trashcan).

And please stop making such noise in discussions, there are handy websites and apps like Everymac and Mactracker, so everybody can check the facts. Yes, there was a logical MacPro lineup, starting at more than half the price of the new model, and yes, they were fully expandable, to suit everybody's needs.

Apple simply doesn't care about that market segment anymore, hence the ridiculous redesign of the old cheesegrater and mixed super cheap and super powerful server hardware. That thing is literally Frankenstein, and I suppose every sold unit is a bonus for them. They have to think about rich kids, yuppies and lifestylers.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Thank you for a constructive reply. I am more hopeful about the future upgradability of the Mac Pro. I think the support will be pretty alright and I'd say we'll even see Nvidia. But maybe the same will happen with it as the trashcan, neglected after a short while, time will tell.

Personally I was never and likely will never be in market for a higher end device from Apple. In my hobby projects I am very cost sensitive and while I can justify the cost of a MBP for $2000 for personal use as a fairly good deal between an everyday device and an actually usable Unix/Linux machine.

When it comes to professional work, as I am not a creative field the heavy workloads will be operative system agnostic.

That said I'd still love the possibility of building my own Mac and will likely try to do it at some point as a form of hackintosh. But it's definitely not a need, just a wish.

I certainly hope you are correct about Nvidia. I think I've become cynical so I'm not holding my breath but I do hope you are right.

Via some combination of hard work, luck, skill, and cosmic accident (I'll let those who know me decide the distribution ;-) ) my situation is such that I'm not very sensitive to price. I certainly won't go with a top spec system (that would just be stupid as the things I do with tech and creative endeavors wouldn't make use of it) but I'll bump a tier or two in most of the BTO categories. I can make good use of a mid-range system such as that - well mid-range of a high-end targeted machine I guess. I don't need hundreds of gigs or TB plus of RAM, I could use 28 cores but I'll be much more than fine with fewer, I wouldn't gain much by having four GPUs, I have lots of existing high performance external storage already, moderate upgrades will meet my use case. I won't expect to change much after purchasing though (Vive's wireless adapter may be the only thing I add internally, anything else will connect externally). I hope it will be with me and performing very well for several years but if not, I'll be fine.

In any case, I'm anxiously awaiting more data. An announcement about Nvidia support would be great. BTO pricing that pushes my preferred config into the $20k+ range would not ;-) I expect this will be a great system but I'm ready to fall back to the iMac Pro if it doesn't work out as I'd like.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I would love that and take it anyday... as long as RAm and SSD are upgradable like the current Mac Pro.

It would have been awesome for them to make a slide-out tray where you could slide in a new M2 SSD, as required.

Ah, the old days where they made upgrades not just possible, but EASY.

But we really need to let this go.

Apple will NEVER give up the EXCLUSIVE rights to upgrades in these machines.

It HAS come to this: we have to take it or leave for Windows or Linux.

Is using macOS worth the hassle? That is the question.
[doublepost=1560547616][/doublepost]

This

According to some people over here, Pro = spends like a sailor, no matter what. I must admit I don't know about such Pros.

Sure many of them will get this MP, but not for their own bucks (people working in big mainstream production studios).

It's frustrating, isn't it? The Mac Pro pre-2013 used to fit nicely between the competent enthusiast all the way up to the highest-of-ends professional.

Now there's nothing, because the iMac doesn't count. $2,500 is a LOT to spend on a computer as a consumer. The machine needs to be flexible, though, which is now a HUGE problem (for us competent enthusiasts, not them) at Apple.

I knew this was what it would come to when Apple announced the iMac Pro, and it's $5K price.

When Apple announced a modular Mac Pro, I was skeptical, and here we (competent enthusiasts) are, STILL with nothing, because the Mac Pro went so far the other way.

We need a Mac. Not a mini, not iMac, not Pro, just a Mac. However Linus from TechTips called it: The mini IS the Mac.

Here's to hoping that Apple is listening to the middle class, but it appears their response is clear in that regard: use iOS.

Grrr.

 

[vladi]

Finally mac users will be able to take advantage of all of those PCIe MADI and DSP cards instead of having to buy them in fancy aluminum cases that do nothing but take the space on your desk/floor

 

[dannys1]

We were asking for a Machine to replace the old Cheese grater Mac Pro. Clearly, the new Mac Pro is NOT. IT is a great machine, that replaces the server line. But there is nothing yet that can replace the expandability of the old cheese grater at that price point.

But as i've pointed out - you have no need for expandability. You want it, but you don't NEED it. What you basically want it something as powerful as the iMac Pro but cheaper. That's what you're asking for. The expandability has nothing to with needing specific setup for a niche project like the Mac Pro now aims at - you just want to undercut Apple prices by putting in cheaper SSDs and being able to upgrade the ram later down the line - that's no pro, that's hobbiest saving money.

Every major audio interface connects externally, ever midi device connects via USB - unless you're someone like Hans Zimmer you really have no NEED to have a custom rig - the iMac Pro has enough power to finish any project you could ever possibly conjure up in your mind with ease...you just want a cheaper version.
[doublepost=1560560366][/doublepost]

Problems are NOT solved. Is not just the RAM. it seems that you do not get it. You do no want a computer that have running fans at full speed making noise while making music, among other things.

They don't - you obviously don't have one.

 

[AnakinMac]

The machine needs to be flexible, though, which is now a HUGE problem (for us competent enthusiasts, not them) at Apple.

mini is already flexible enough. You can upgrade RAM and 4 TB port is enough for most cases.
Don't expect Intel CPU to be upgradeable across generations.
Thunderbolt can add PCIe cards, SSDs, GPUs.
What else you want to change?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

According to some people over here, Pro = spends like a sailor

No, Pro means “will spend what I need in order to do my work”. If what they need to spend is $400, then that’s what they’ll spend. Anything more than that is overkill. If what they need to spend is $400,000, that’s what they’ll spend. Anything less than that is shorting themselves.

People want to buy something that Apple doesn’t even offer as a product.
[doublepost=1560575264][/doublepost]

But Apple used to make these back in the day

BUT THEY DON’T NOW You’re in the camp of the people that want a system that Apple doesn’t make, and that’s fine! Won’t change the fact that you feel hurt and betrayed by Apple’s decision. To wait this long and then have the object of your desire priced above what you can afford must hurt.

Apple simply doesn't care about that market segment anymore

CORRECT! And they haven’t cared about it for awhile. Anyone paying attention over the last few years saw Apple targeting specific segments with each system release. Anyone paying attention... for example, me, have felt that the Mac Pro’s performance and price would start around where the iMac Pro stops, and go up from there. As a result, I’m not surprised.

They have to think about rich kids, yuppies and lifestylers.

AND pros and folks NOT on a fixed income.

 

[Peperino]

But as i've pointed out - you have no need for expandability. You want it, but you don't NEED it. What you basically want it something as powerful as the iMac Pro but cheaper. That's what you're asking for. The expandability has nothing to with needing specific setup for a niche project like the Mac Pro now aims at - you just want to undercut Apple prices by putting in cheaper SSDs and being able to upgrade the ram later down the line - that's no pro, that's hobbiest saving money.

It is quite hilarious and i might say quite arrogant that you seem to know or don't know what my needs are when you do not even know me.
NOt only I do not need an iMac Pro, I do not WANT an iMac Pro. For me it is not a PRO computer. you have to pay 6-8k for a computer that is NOT upgradable, you cannot even adjust it vertically and you have the fans running full speed in front of you.
I want a Mac Pro like they just released but with less expandability and less power. Apple should have released a Mac Pro with 3 Pci, 512 RAM, maybe 1 or 2 GPUs) for 3k. Those would have sold like hotcakes.
The reason, is that not only we NEED expandability, we want to have the computer in another room and still be able to connect multiple monitors.

All the previous generation Apple computers, the RAM and Internal HD were always upgradable.
I do not want to undercut Apple prices. Apple prices are a complete rip off charging 100% more of similar RAM and SSD market prices. IT is simple and pure greed trying to milk every penny out of the Mac users forcing them to use Apple obscene RAM and SSD prices.

If you need to change a tire in your car you do not buy a new car. Apple is forcing you to buy a new car, which is pathetic.
[doublepost=1560582605][/doublepost]

mini is already flexible enough. You can upgrade RAM and 4 TB port is enough for most cases.
Don't expect Intel CPU to be upgradeable across generations.
Thunderbolt can add PCIe cards, SSDs, GPUs.
What else you want to change?

The MAc Mini is NOT flexible. After 4 years, they come out with the same case that had heating issues.
It is way overpriced for what they deliver, and it has no GPU included. Buy the time you start adding RAM, SSD and GPU you will spend almost the same as an iMac Pro.

 

[fairuz]

Logic Pro X 10.4.5 now supports up to 56 processing threads

Weird that there's a limit like this. Usually once something is scalable to 4, it's scalable to hundreds, though bottlenecks and sharing can make that not worthwhile at some point. Video tasks are usually very friendly to parallelism, and I can easily see 28 physical cores maxed out on some tasks.
[doublepost=1560588666][/doublepost]

I'm curious: why limit the number of simultaneous threads to 56? Is that actually set in software, or is this software only available on a Mac, for which there are no higher thread counts possible?

This makes me wonder if the CPU will be soldered into the board on the Mac Pro... there are higher core count CPUs out there (not that most people would necessarily want that).

In regards to the software, I regularly code with MPI and OpenMP (mostly the former). I never set arbitrary limits on the number of threads/workers. More is (almost always) better, but 56 is certainly nowhere near the limit of overhead costs.

Same question. You can definitely have more than 56 threads per process in macOS. I don't see any reason for the limitation.
[doublepost=1560589408][/doublepost]

mini is already flexible enough. You can upgrade RAM and 4 TB port is enough for most cases.
Don't expect Intel CPU to be upgradeable across generations.
Thunderbolt can add PCIe cards, SSDs, GPUs.
What else you want to change?

"Thunderbolt can add PCIe cards," eh, not really. You'll be lucky if you get an eGPU setup working properly, and then there are other expansion cards.
[doublepost=1560589711][/doublepost]

Pro = You make your living from your work. Pro's can and will purchase mac pros.

For aspiring musicians and all hobbyists - Get a Mac Mini or iMac. Can't afford one? - Get a refurb or used one.

Don't want to come across as brash but that's just the facts of it. Getting a little tired of all the bashing about the new Mac Pros by people who don't need them.

Just because you make a living from it doesn't mean you can afford (or want to pay that much) for a Mac Pro. I'll bet plenty of actual pros need the expandability but not the high specs, and $6K base price is insane for that. They can maybe just use a way cheaper Windows PC or workstation. I knew a lot of people in the film industry when I lived in Hollywood, and afaik most switched to Windows cause they don't care about Apple's software anyway (esp Final Cut, which suddenly sucked).

Same reason I don't have a top-of-the-line Mac just because I'm a pro software engineer.

 

[JazzyGB1]

The 'pros can afford it' people are missing the point.
It's not about the segment - it's about the form factor.
This is Apple's ONLY tower - and it costs more than double the last one...THAT"S THE POINT!
Pompous and condescending comments to those aggrieved by that does not reflect well on you.
I'm not a 'pro' user, but I am a Power user and have owned nearly every Apple tower since the G4 350 up to the 2009 Mac Pro.
So to be told that I am no longer their 'target market' because I can't justify spending $6k on a tower is nonsense.
I am their target market and have been for almost two decades. I've waited nearly a decade for another Apple tower and Apple CHOSE to snub me (and many others) with a price point that has more than doubled.
iMacs or Mac Mini ARE NOT a suitable alternative for those who use towers and (like me) already have a 32" 4k display or lots of internal storage and extra SSD's, USB, SATA and Firewire ports via PCI'e card.
The previous Mac Pro tower was the most successful Mac Pro Apple ever made, was less than half the price of the new model and it wasn't any 'less pro' because of it.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

mini is already flexible enough. You can upgrade RAM and 4 TB port is enough for most cases.
Don't expect Intel CPU to be upgradeable across generations.
Thunderbolt can add PCIe cards, SSDs, GPUs.
What else you want to change?

That's the setup I'm leaning towards.

Don't get me wrong, the mini is very, very nice, and now with TB3 and EGPUs I could get a functional, expandable setup. I like that.

But the issue is I would have liked to NOT have to externalize everything.

That leaves us middle-of-the-grounders in the same situation we were when the Mac Pro Tube was introduced:

The difference between now and 2013 is that TB2 wasn't fast enough, and as usual Apple jumped too far forward while cutting the present off at the knees.

Now with TB3, the concept Apple was going for in the Tube is fulfilled with the mini. And for the pros that REALLY got screwed over by the Tube, Apple built the new Mac Pro.

Sadly, this Mac Pro doesn't scale down like the old one did.

So the writing's on the wall. Apple will NEVER build the machine I want (a consumer-grade PC tower equivalent).

 

[uller6]

Dude, you should upgrade. The new iMacs are so sweet. You’re worth it.

I’m probably going to get the new Mac Pro shortly after release, depending on how it handles Comsol (multiphysics modeling). Then my 2013 nMP will move down the food chain to Logic Pro duty.