M1 Ultra Doesn't Beat Out Nvidia's RTX 3090 GPU Despite Apple's Charts

[lysingur]

Yes you are. You literally said some people prefer playing in medium settings, some people prefer 4K, others run fine on lower resolutions........

I basically said ME TO! and said what I am running.

Now.....please follow along shall we? You said this

"Some people have to run games on ultra settings. Some people are okay with medium. Some people want 4K. Some people are okay with 1080p."

I basically said I agree, Elden Ring on a GTX 1080 and 1080p resolution.....What was the LAST COUPLE WORDS you said?

"People are okay with 1080p." I responded that I am okay with 1080p and provided an example.......So yes, you are literally saying the same thing.

Again, Ethosik,

"Some people have to run games on ultra settings. Some people are okay with medium. Some people want 4K. Some people are okay with 1080p."

The above quote was meant to highlight the fact that people have preferences and it's all subjective. The only objective thing is benchmarks. Saying you enjoy a game at 1080p is saying just that. YOU enjoy playing at 1080p. But Shawn next door might think 1080p is crap. Get it?

 

[Ethosik]

Apple is heavily investing in gaming with the VR and AR technologies they have been incorporating at the OS level. I believe their shift away from Intel was to give them they power they need to take games to the next level. They are no longer at the mercy of Intel’s pace.

In the Pro markets Macs were becoming an also ran and developer were not keeping feature on par with their windows programs. Once Apple released their own capable pro software like Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro, those same developers were suddenly announcing they are refocusing on their Mac Development.

Proof on this? Because it would certainly cut down on the NONSTOP gaming complaints people have on this site. Would be nice if true, but I have not seen any proof.

 

[lysingur]

But you are advocating for Apple to spend A LOT of money on a platform exclusive game WHILE comparing it to streaming services which are platform agnostic.

I'm advocating Apple getting more games on a Mac. Just as they are getting more shows on Apple TV+.

 

[Ethosik]

Again, Ethosik,

"Some people have to run games on ultra settings. Some people are okay with medium. Some people want 4K. Some people are okay with 1080p."

The above quote was meant to highlight the fact that people have preferences and it's all subjective. The only objective thing is benchmarks. Saying you enjoy a game at 1080p is saying just that. YOU enjoy playing at 1080p. But Shawn next door might think 1080p is crap. Get it?

When did I dispute that fact? I never once said 1080p is THE CHOICE FOR ALL!!!!!!

 

[Ethosik]

I'm advocating Apple getting more games on a Mac. Just as they are getting more shows on Apple TV+.

And that is the problem. You are comparing a platform specific thing to a platform agnostic thing. Apple TV would be far less successful if it was gated to Apple hardware only. Just like gaming on Mac is a bad idea because all the gamers are on Windows.

 

[lysingur]

When did I dispute that fact? I never once said 1080p is THE CHOICE FOR ALL!!!!!!

You are saying people are just fine with medium settings, and I responded that it is why the gaming on mac talk is ridiculous because people keep saying Apple NEEDS.....NEEDS NVIDIA in order for gaming to work. They NEED the 3080s and 3090s in order for gaming to work. Elden Ring can run very well on macOS if its ported because it runs just fine on a 1080 GPU.

You literally just said it.

 

[Ethosik]

You literally just said it.

Where did I say 1080p is the best for all in that quote? Where did I say those exact words? I simply stated that games can be ported to macOS if there was enough marketshare because a lot of the time it doesn't require 3080 or 3090 to even play games. Games get ported on Nintendo Switch and that has even worse GPU than the Macs.

If Apple had the marketshare, dev would port their games to Macs. That is all I was saying. People just live in a Field of Dreams "If they build it games will come" mindset when that is not true. Apple can completely destroy the 3090, but if it doesn't have the marketshare it won't amount to much.

 

[lysingur]

And that is the problem. You are comparing a platform specific thing to a platform agnostic thing. Apple TV would be far less successful if it was gated to Apple hardware only. Just like gaming on Mac is a bad idea because all the gamers are on Windows.

I'm close to giving up, mate.

The hurdle to both is money. It pretty much has little to do with platforms. You're just stuck mentally.

To watch shows on Apple TV+, you pay a fee.
To play games on a Mac, you pay money (to buy a Mac).

If shows on Apple TV+ are good, people will pay the fee.
If games on Macs are good, people will pay the money (to buy a Mac).

Consoles are not platforms per se. It'll probably help if you try to understand what I'm trying to say by looking at Xbox vs. Playstation.

If you still don't get it, I don't know what to say.

 

[sunny5]

And that has been known for how long? Yet people still lose sleep over it…

For a long time even in Intel Mac era. When was the last time that Mac was WELL KNOWN for gaming then?

 

[lysingur]

Where did I say 1080p is the best for all in that quote? Where did I say those exact words? I simply stated that games can be ported to macOS if there was enough marketshare because a lot of the time it doesn't require 3080 or 3090 to even play games. Games get ported on Nintendo Switch and that has even worse GPU than the Macs.

If Apple had the marketshare, dev would port their games to Macs. That is all I was saying. People just live in a Field of Dreams "If they build it games will come" mindset when that is not true. Apple can completely destroy the 3090, but if it doesn't have the marketshare it won't amount to much.

You said "Elden Ring can run very well on macOS if its ported because it runs just fine on a 1080 GPU."

You're literally saying because it runs "fine" for you, it should be fine for other people. You literally just said it, mate.

 

[Ethosik]

I'm close to giving up, mate.

The hurdle to both is money. It pretty much has little to do with platforms. You're just stuck mentally.

To watch shows on Apple TV+, you pay a fee.
To play games on a Mac, you pay money (to buy a Mac).

If shows on Apple TV+ are good, people will pay the fee.
If games on Macs are good, people will pay the money (to buy a Mac).

Consoles are not platforms per se. It'll probably help if you try to understand what I'm trying to say by looking at Xbox vs. Playstation.

If you still don't get it, I don't know what to say.

Yes, but I am not required to spend $800+ for a Mac JUST to watch Apple TV. Where as if there was a Mac exclusive game, I would need to spend $800+ (if it runs well on the Mac mini) to even GET macOS to even play the game.

I am literally watching Apple TV+ right now on Windows. I pay a fee, just like Netflix, but I am not locked to specific hardware whereas with a game, I will be.

 

[Ethosik]

You said "Elden Ring can run very well on macOS if its ported because it runs just fine on a 1080 GPU."

You're literally saying because it runs "fine" for you, it should be fine for other people. You literally just said it, mate.

Yes, it will run just fine for everyone. Just like when games are ported to Nintendo Switch they run fine. Does it run at ULTRA 4K resolution with ULTIMATE settings? No. I wasn't saying that at all. Games will NEVER have parity on ANY ports. Sometimes Playstation ports to PC are HORRIBLE even though the PC is far better than the Playstation.

Its all about optimization. I have been through this even cross Direct X versions where the game suddenly performed bad on a newer Direct X version and I had to make some performance enhancements. This is why some games end up being a bit poor or require a lot more PC specs than a PS4 game. This is why developers optimized things like Doom on the Nintendo Switch to make it run well. But the marketshare of macs prevents this and as was pointed out already why we have some poor ports of games on macOS already.

 

[FelixDerKater]

A machine named Studio is not likely meant for games.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Personally, I bought a lifetime license for CrossOver. All of my games and other Windows apps work fine. Seems to me this would be the way to go instead of having to boot into a different OS. I have also noticed that my software runs faster than under Windows native.

Thank you for sharing. I'll look into it. Never heard of it.

 

[waterfta]

You said "Elden Ring can run very well on macOS if its ported because it runs just fine on a 1080 GPU."

You're literally saying because it runs "fine" for you, it should be fine for other people. You literally just said it, mate.

not sure why this argument is going on. It sounds like you're confusing 1080p with an Nvidia 1080 GPU. The point is, the game could be ported to OSX and probably run reasonably well on M1 if it can run well on an Nvidia 1080 GPU. Now, it's possible it would only run well at 1080p on M1, but that's mere coincidental than anything.

At this point though, any Mac owner hoping "this is the time Apple takes gaming on a Mac seriously!"...I mean...how much let down do you want to experience in your life? Time to buy a Series X/PS5 and call it a day.

 

[amartinez1660]

No they are not, evidence is GFXBench:

M1 Ultra:
View attachment 1975412


RTX 3090:
View attachment 1975413
Although the M1 Ultra lost both Aztech Ruins Test, they won the T Rex and Manhattan Tests, and I am not cherrypicking, this is real data from GFXBench

Do you know what’s up with the tests showing N/A? They don’t manage to run? Doesn’t fit in memory or something maybe?

 

[Sir_Macs_A_Lot]

This just reinforces the fact that someone can ‘spin’ statistics to paint any narrative they desire.

 

[Ethosik]

not sure why this argument is going on. It sounds like you're confusing 1080p with an Nvidia 1080 GPU. The point is, the game could be ported to OSX and probably run reasonably well on M1 if it can run well on an Nvidia 1080 GPU. Now, it's possible it would only run well at 1080p on M1, but that's mere coincidental than anything.

At this point though, any Mac owner hoping "this is the time Apple takes gaming on a Mac seriously!"...I mean...how much let down do you want to experience in your life? Time to buy a Series X/PS5 and call it a day.

Thank you for helping explain this. That was my point all along that since Elden Ring performs well (while not 4k ULTRA!!!!) on a GTX 1080, it should be fine on a Mac if it was ported (and ported well). Thus, helping the whole "gaming on mac" argument settle down a bit by not gating it to "needs NVIDIA GPUs" or "needs equivalent of 3080 performance".

 

[Homy]

I think MR is also misleading when they only use Geekbench from the review and don't mention other results where M1 Ultra is faster according to the Verge. Just look at these results. Gaming is supposed to be Mac's Achilles' heel. Yet M1 Ultra is only 18 fps slower than 3090 and faster than Mac Pro with dual Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB in Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 1440p. A game that is not coded for ARM running through Rosetta, not intended for iGPUs but dGPUs and neither written for Apple GPUs but AMD/Nvidia, all according to Brad Oliver one of the lead Mac game developers previously at Westlake Interactive and Aspyr. Impressive iGPU indeed running at 200W less power!

 

[arvinsim]

Benchmarks in general just should not be used AT ALL. Whether they show the product in a good or bad way, they should just stop being used. Actually do real-world tests. I want to see more of these please. This is why I like Max Tech so much, they don't just run a 2 minute benchmark and upload a video. They export things and edit video and do ALL sorts of things. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than a ridiculous benchmark? Yes. This is also why I like hearing Larry Jordan from a Video Editor perspective when he talks about the macs he tests. Its not just a 2 minute benchmark and a blog post gets written.

You know what's funny?

When Apple hardware was less performant than the competition, the fanboy battle cry was "it's not about the specs, it's about the user experience". Benchmarks were scoffed at.

Now that Apple hardware is competitive, fanboys latch on benchmarks and love to throw out numbers any chance they get. "See, Apple is topping the Geekbench 5 benchmark charts!".

 

[Ethosik]

You know what's funny?

When Apple hardware was less performant than the competition, the fanboy battle cry was "it's not about the specs, it's about the user experience". Benchmarks were scoffed at.

Now that Apple hardware is competitive, fanboys latch on benchmarks and love to throw out numbers any chance they get. "See, Apple is topping the Geekbench 5 benchmark charts!".

Yeah I am not a fan no matter what the benchmark shows.

 

[citysnaps]

A machine named Studio is not likely meant for games.

Astonishing so many people don't get that. Also... it would make zero sense for Apple to get into that market.

 

[arvinsim]

I think MR is also misleading when they only use Geekbench from the review and don't mention other results where M1 Ultra is faster according to the Verge. Just look at these results. Gaming is supposed to be Mac's Achilles' heel. Yet M1 Ultra is only 18 fps slower than 3090 and faster than Mac Pro with dual Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB in Shadow of the Tomb Raider at 1440p. A game that is not coded for ARM running through Rosetta, not intended for iGPUs but dGPUs and not either written for Apple GPUs but AMD/Nvidia, all according to Brad Oliver one of the lead Mac game developers previously at Westlake Interactive and Aspyr. Impressive iGPU indeed running at 200W less power!

View attachment 1975545

Talk about cherrypicking
- It's one of the few games that are M1 optimized
- It's only 18fps difference at 1440p.

Yeah, that will convince gamers. Right.

 

[arvinsim]

Because it will never work. Would I rather spend $4,000 on a Mac Studio, or $2,500 on a custom built gaming PC which has a FULL catalog of Windows-only games? I have 400+ games on my Steam account in Windows.

Apple will just waste their money, that game will get so few sales. It might barely increase marketshare of Macs but it would not be worth it. And Apple knows it.

It's self-inflicted. Imagine if they supported Vulkan.

 

[arvinsim]

Proof on this? Because it would certainly cut down on the NONSTOP gaming complaints people have on this site. Would be nice if true, but I have not seen any proof.

There are rumors of a powerful AR/VR headset. My stance is I will believe it when I see it.