Mac Hater Arguments

[Yvan256]

I didn't say all, I said some PC's only have two USB ports, but nobody is making a big stink about them, are they? People only make this argument because it's a Mac.

Absolutely not. Apple really is to blame in this case. Let me explain you why.

When they announced the Mac mini, it was clearly aimed to potential switchers (no keyboard or mouse included to cut costs and allow people to re-use their existing keyboard and mouse).

However, the mistake Apple made is they were still in Apple-land when they added the ports. Apple keyboards have 2 ports built-in. Apple offers bluetooth. With these two options you end up with two free USB ports.

But in reality, most switchers won't even HAVE a USB keyboard (most mices are USB though). So even if they DO buy a USB keyboard (non-Apple), they're not likely to have a hub in it.

Which means that either Apple should've made the Mac mini with a minimum of 3 ports (keyboard, mouse, printer) and ideally 4 ports (keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner/camera/etc). It should also have included a Dual-PS/2-to-USB adapter, just like they included the DVI-to-VGA adapter.

Granted, you can fix the whole problem with either a hub and/or a PS/2-to-USB adapter, but that means that out-of-the-box, most switchers will end up with either zero USB ports left or not even being able to connector their keyboard (Apple never said you could use your PS/2 gear, but for something aimed at switchers, they didn't really look at what people had at home either).

And lastly, Apple is proud of the form factor of the Mac mini. As a user I'd be annoyed to have even more cables/boxes (adapter, hub) around the Mac mini just to be able to use the computer, it ruins the whole idea of "small, compact, neat".

If you want to talk about stupid things on the PC side, let's talk about the hot-plug HD cartridge some computers now have. Some idiot decided to use USB 2.0 instead of FireWire... Because "480mbps is faster than 400mbps", I suppose.

 

[Yvan256]

I saw a PC a few months ago that had two PS/2 ports and two rear USB ports, and it came with a USB keyboard and mouse.

Daniel

And I bet your found that to be both funny and stupid.

Same thing applies for the Mac mini. For the target, it misses the boat for PS/2 connectivity (easily fixed with Apple adding the adapter in future shipments) and USB ports (they need to add at least two ports in the back).

We're not bashing it because it's Apple. That PC you just mentionned is in fact even more stupid because they not only shipped USB gear for a PC with PS/2 connectors but also because that computer won't have any ports left once you connect the keyboard and mouse.

 

[dejo]

Same thing applies for the Mac mini. For the target, it misses the boat for PS/2 connectivity (easily fixed with Apple adding the adapter in future shipments) and USB ports (they need to add at least two ports in the back).

I don't think there really is any more room on the back for another two USB ports. And putting them on the back isn't always convenient. I'd rather see Apple add a couple of USB ports to the sides of the mini (one on each side). Don't want to disrupt the clean look of the front, so I suggest the sides instead.

 

[dsharits]

Something just occurred to me. Why does nobody complain about every Power Mac since the B&W's with the sole exception of the G5? The B&W's and every single Power Mac G4 only has two USB ports, and they all shipped with USB keyboards and mice.

Daniel

 

[Nickygoat]

1) "You can't use an iPod on a Mac" - my friend said this like two days ago. I'm like "are you an idiot? Who do you think MAKES the iPod!?!?" and hes like "But on my friends [Mac] computer when I plugged in my iPod it didnt work" Edit: In case it wasn't understood, this is because when he plugged it into his Windows, he set it up for Windows, so in a Mac, it didn't work...

Not true - Windows iPods are formatted using FAT32. Mac iPods use HFS+ OSX can read FAT32 but not the other way round. If you connect a Windows formatted iPod to a Mac it will work perfectly. I did this the other day for a friend who was having trouble with his iPod (Windows). iTunes gave me the message that it was associated with another iTunes library and did I want to change it. I clicked no and could add and delete songs onto his iPod. This is not supported by Apple but it does work.

 

[Yvan256]

Something just occurred to me. Why does nobody complain about every Power Mac since the B&W's with the sole exception of the G5? The B&W's and every single Power Mac G4 only has two USB ports, and they all shipped with USB keyboards and mice.

Daniel

You answered your own question without realizing it. All Apple computers ship with an Apple keyboard, which has a built-in 2-port USB hub.

The Mac mini, on the other hand, doesn't have any keyboard or mouse. It's targeted at switchers who probably won't have a hub in their keyboard, if the keyboard is USB in the first place (which, in all probability, won't be).

But yes, now that you mention it, only having two USB ports (even with a keyboard with a built-in port) seems kinda weak.

The iMac G5 does have more ports too (see http://asia.cnet.com/i/r/2004/pg/39192080/sc009.jpg), even though there's two ports on the keyboard. It also have two FireWire ports. While I understand Apple for putting less ports on the Mac mini, it should at least have 3 ports (keyboard, mouse, printer).

 

[Kreamy]

You answered your own question without realizing it. All Apple computers ship with an Apple keyboard, which has a built-in 2-port USB hub.

The Mac mini, on the other hand, doesn't have any keyboard or mouse. It's targeted at switchers who probably won't have a hub in their keyboard, if the keyboard is USB in the first place (which, in all probability, won't be).

But yes, now that you mention it, only having two USB ports (even with a keyboard with a built-in port) seems kinda weak.

The iMac G5 does have more ports too (see http://asia.cnet.com/i/r/2004/pg/39192080/sc009.jpg), even though there's two ports on the keyboard. It also have two FireWire ports. While I understand Apple for putting less ports on the Mac mini, it should at least have 3 ports (keyboard, mouse, printer).

NTM that in the days of the early G4s, the USB functionality was nowhere near as large as it is now. Apple was much bigger on firewire than USB (they have reason to as well, they invented firewire many years ago and its still faster than USB2 today)

 

[dsharits]

NTM that in the days of the early G4s, the USB functionality was nowhere near as large as it is now. Apple was much bigger on firewire than USB (they have reason to as well, they invented firewire many years ago and its still faster than USB2 today)

But even the MDD's had only two.

Daniel

 

[Daveway]

Has the, "Where's the rest of the keyboard?!" comment come up yet?

 

[~loserman~]

Mac's have a stupid menu bar at the top. That you cant get rid of.
When you close an App on a Mac it doesn't really close it just closes the active Window.
When you download compressed files on a Mac they automatically unzip on your desktop and clutter everything up.
The finder interface for navigating to your programs is lame.
A one button mouse is lame. Especially when all the context menus are there to use if you had a 3 button mouse.
No one can figure out what half the stupid symbols are for using keystrokes instead of the mouse.
Powerbook displays are too dim.
They didn't include a ps2 port for a keyboard on the mini.
Appletalk was and is awful.
rendezvous is too chatty.
The darwin kernel is very inefficient and has poor memory management
There are very few games on the Mac.
Nvidia 5200
Unless you do graphics art, video editing or desktop publishing you have very few software choices.
Mac OS 1 thru 9
No serial port.
No built in SD card reader
Al Gore on board of directors.

 

[dsharits]

Al Gore on board of directors.

As much as I hate to admit it, that actually is a decent argument for using a PC.

Daniel

 

[Mav451]

Lockbox baby. 'nuff said. I mean, lockbox + FileVault, how much more safe could you be?

That's a plus dude.

 

[iKnezek]

"Not for powerusers"

Macs can't be customized like pcs can
iLife isn't that great, and can be matched very cheaply on pc
Mac harware is way overpriced
Macs aren't compatible with...(insert random thing here)
Macs are vastly slower
Macs suck at games (kinda true, hopefully it will be better in Tiger)
You can't find any peripherals that work with Macs.
Os X is a toy operating system (???)
Os X is just a less-customizable Linux

These are just a few, I know I've heard more, but I can't remeber them now.

 

[chaosbunny]

Have you actually heard somebody use that argument? If you have to give consideration to which will do better in a fall you have bigger problems than "should I get a Mac or a PC?"



I LOVE the Photoshop blowhards who say you can't do anything without the fastest computer and gigabytes upon gigabytes of RAM. I really have to wonder what they're doing becuase the professional design and print world is running on 400-800 mhz G4s with under 1GB of RAM. It's not uncommon to find pre-G3 PowerMacs still in use. These are the computers used to design the magazine ads you see every month, the stupid messages on T shirts, the posters for the big dumb movie that's coming out next month--everything.

The blowhards are probably doing hard core stuff like red-eye reduction on the pictures from their 26 megapixel cameras that they don't know how to use properly.

The goal shouldn't be to win an argument with these people though. Just learn enough about them to recognize them and avoid them when you see them. Arguing why your Mac is better than their PC (and it is better) is pointless. Just be happy using your Mac. If you wanted to get upset over stupid things you'd just use Windows in the first place.

I'm with you! I often wonder what they are doing to get 2 GB Photoshop files, layouting books in Photoshop? Maybe they should learn some Illustrator, InDesign, XPress to call themselves graphic designers. I'd call them "filter users"

 

[Horrortaxi]

I read something interesting last night: Both in the US and worldwide Apple has a higher market share than Sony on both desktop and laptop computers. So if someone tells you Apple is going to go belly up from lack of market share the logic of that argument dictates that Sony will too.

Most likely the explanation is that Sony and Apple are both makers of premium of computers. Most people don't care about "premium" so both have low market share (while Dell ranks at the top by a wide margin). If you do care about "premium" you're probably more inclined to buy a Mac.

I just offer this as an interesting fact. I still say it's not a good idea to argue whether the Mac or PC is better. Just be comfortable in your choice. If you do need to show up some Windows users, do it by having your slow, overpriced, pretty, non-compatible computer do more work than their computers.

 

[eroda]

i dont really get this argument Windows/Mac/Linux i use all the 3 platform types
(when refering to mac not osx but os9 like)

its all the same to me i can swithc from one to another like changing underwear

 

[Chappers]

and

Macs are not real computers

Its not real unix in macosx

 

[jefhatfield]

"Most software isn't compatible with macs"

Which is true...

but there are a lot of pc titles that work with macs that i find in a pc store like office depot or staples...it's buried in the fine print

 

[ct77]

Im working on a project....
Im compiling a list of the most common blind faced arguments that mac haters make, and specific facts and statistics that we can rebut with.

You might find this thread at Macintouch interesting:

http://macintouch.com/macjust.html

 

[Stefanlod001]

do you know WHY pc vendors almost always have just a background on the screen of computers in their ads?! its because windows now looks so unappealing now that it doesn't even go with the design of the computer. and with apple computers, it always shows the desktop (except for a couple of powerbook ads). and about mac hating comments, someone i know said he LIKED fixing windows when it stuffed up. another funny instance: some people were printing off some things to a usb printer - one guy was using an ibook was asked "you sure that'll print on your fancy mac?" and it printed just fine and it didn't even need time to load drivers. the other guy plugged in his pc and after about 30 seconds of loading drivers, it wouldn't print. the guy with the ibook said "you sure that'll print with your fancy pc?"

 

[JRM PowerPod]

Really? When I sense that trait, I'm actually drawn toward them. Of course, after the conversation, they wish I hadn't been.

Daniel

Those sort or people seem to have the same problem with me too

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

From the thread "Why don't you use a Mac?" at that other forum:

I do agree that Macs don't have as many problems with spyware/viruses as PCs do, but software for Macs is more expensive, and finding the right software can be a little more difficult since there are more sites for PC software out there.

Umm, d'oh! And about the finding software part... That's just lazy.

The best analogy that I can find for the comparison between Macs and PCs:

Macs = cushy luxury cars with automatic transmissions for people who don't want to deal with maintenance.

PCs = Honda Civics with standard transmissions. A little work and TLC and they'll blow anything else out of the water.

This is funny... First off, the idea is sorta true... Where it gets messed is the part where he says "Civics with work are fast!" Okay, I don't know about anyone else here, but Ricer cars are ghay, and NOT fast. A nice "cushy luxury car" with a big V8 will "blow anything else out of the water." As a self proclaimed car nut (my user name, the Plymouth Breeze is a car in case you didn't know) and overall guru of the automotive industry all-around, I feel confident in making these claims (that Civic's are not fast cars). If you know anything about real car stuff (not what this guy thinks he knows), then you know he's wrong.

Anywho, I've also got the "Mac's are for fags" a lot. Being an art student in a high level art class at school, I get this even more from stupid kids who relate art=gay. Regardless, this doesn't really bother me, because I'm not gay.

A have one friend who is your typical Mac Hater. She dismisses my arguments for Macs and against Windows as me being a "Mac Fanboy." She does the common, "Macs are for rich artsy snobs who don't do 'real computer stuff'." What's funny is I find most advanced (or at least most of us here who are "geek" enough to post on this forum ) Mac folks use more of their computers then most Windows people do. With iLife and other time saving apps, there's no reason why WE shouldn't. On the other hand, Windows users have to spend their time dealing with viruses, spyware, and crashes - what they consider "real computer stuff." Oh the irony.

About the price argument. I really don't see a reason we need to defend Apple in this regard. If you can afford the better quality product, then there's no reason you shouldn't have it. I'm grateful I'm able to afford a Mac, an iPod, and OS upgrades as well as good software, if not, oh well, I guess that's life. Bottom line is the Macs are better engineered products, and while they may cost more, the final result is better. Kinda goes back to the car analogy: Apple makes the cushy, fast BMWs or Mercedes, while your bread and butter brands are Wintels. You pay more for the high end, but you get what you pay for. While everyone can't afford it (or even have a desire for it), it's a reward for those who are "doing better."

 

[tech4all]

Anywho, I've also got the "Mac's are for fags" a lot. Being an art student in a high level art class at school, I get this even more from stupid kids who relate art=gay. Regardless, this doesn't really bother me, because I'm not gay.

I usually hear that comment from 'children', which gets really old after a while.

A have one friend who is your typical Mac Hater. She dismisses my arguments for Macs and against Windows as me being a "Mac Fanboy." She does the common, "Macs are for rich artsy snobs who don't do 'real computer stuff'."

I wonder how she defines "real computer stuff". Maybe scanning for viruses and spyware everyday? Or actual REAL work without the worry of viruses and spyware.

What's funny is I find most advanced (or at least most of us here who are "geek" enough to post on this forum ) Mac folks use more of their computers then most Windows people do. With iLife and other time saving apps, there's no reason why WE shouldn't. On the other hand, Windows users have to spend their time dealing with viruses, spyware, and crashes - what they consider "real computer stuff." Oh the irony.

I didn't even read when I made my last comment

 

[Mav451]

On the other hand, Windows users have to spend their time dealing with viruses, spyware, and crashes - what they consider "real computer stuff." Oh the irony.

You know what most people (well outside of your one-sided RDF) call that statement?

FUD.

If you used XP everyday (like I do), I have yet to deal with viruses. Even since '97, I have yet to pick up a virus. Spyware? I use Firefox. I don't waste a signle minute "dealing with viruses/spyware/crashes." I've wasted more time restarting the Dual 2.0G5 boxes at the university library than I have restarting my XP box in my dorm room.

Restarts at the WAM lab? Easily 6-8 on KPs alone. My own? 0.

When I was tweaking my overclock, of course, but when I found my sweet spot (as you can see in my sig), I never had to do a hard restart.

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

I usually hear that comment from 'children', which gets really old after a while.

Yeah, I get it from the kids at my High School. I'm 15 (Freshmen).

I wonder how she defines "real computer stuff". Maybe scanning for viruses and spyware everyday? Or actual REAL work without the worry of viruses and spyware...

...I didn't even read when I made my last comment

We were both thinking the same thing. Hah.

You know what most people (well outside of your one-sided RDF) call that statement?

FUD.

Reality-Distortion Field - Nope, just my humble opinion. I wasn't asking you for an agreement. Nor do I ask my friend for one. If she's content with dealing with that stuff, so be it. I won't accept inferior, half a***d "solutions" that Windows provides.

FUD - Oh how I'm so scared of Windows users and doubtful of my Macs capabilities!

Let me ask you, why do you post here? Obviously you don't come to a Mac forum and attack users (like you did me) who enthusiastically support their products on our "home turf." Feel free to flame Macs on Wintel boards.