Mac Pro Spotted in Studio of DJ Calvin Harris Ahead of Launch

[PickUrPoison]

The fundamental problem is not that this Mac Pro is too expensive for what it is (from all accounts the hardware in it is absolutely firebreathing), but rather that for a brief time there (the age of the cheese grater Mac Pro), Apple made a no-nonsense high-end thoroughly expandable workstation Mac which was comparatively affordable. Which they let die on the vine, and then followed up with the utterly unexpandable trashcan Mac Pro. And now, this one, which has unbelievably good performance, but is also priced out of the hands of a lot of private users or edge-case users who could have afforded the old cheese grater Mac Pro.

The problem is, a dozen years ago, their answer to "we want a very fast expandable machine" was the computer equivalent of a $60k sports car. And a lot of people loved that and could afford to get one, even if their use case wasn't "rendering million dollar special effects in real time". This time, their answer to the same question is the computer equivalent of a Bugatti Veyron - and it's obscenely powerful and expandable, but it's also priced out of the hands of a lot of the people who could get the cheese grater back in the day.

And now there are a lot of arguments (like in this thread) where much of the problem is that various participants in the discussion are working from different definitions of "professional user". Yes, for users with the very highest high-end needs, this machine is perfect and entirely justifiable. But there are a lot of users with less lofty needs that could justify/afford the old Mac Pro, who can't justify/afford this new one. Keep in mind that it's not a binary comparison of "blockbuster special effects artist" vs "home user", there's a whole spectrum of use cases in between.

It's particularly painful when the Mac Pro is the only internally upgradable/expandable Mac in the lineup. There's ample room for a "Mac Pro Mini", in a much more modest box, with some capacity for upgrades (RAM, SSDs, video cards). But, Apple won't build that. Instead, those users are told to buy iMacs, which are not expandable, and which come with permanently attached monitors (they are very nice monitors, but you don't always need to replace your monitor when you upgrade your machine).

I hear what you’re saying, but there’s simply not enough sales volume in the consumer space for a tower product. 80% of users buy laptops and at least 10 and maybe up to 15 of the remaining 20% buy iMacs. That leaves 5-10% of users—only one to two million units—to fought over by Mac mini, iMac Pro and Mac Pro.

That’s a really small market for which to carry three models, and there’s just not room for a fourth. The only way even three works is that the Pros are relatively expensive, and the mini isn’t exactly cheap. The cut-down Pro you want, unless it were priced at least at $5k, would actually cost Apple profit and revenue due to cannibalization of the full-size Pro. It’s just not a viable product

At this point the needs of someone who can’t justify a Mac Pro are best met by the Mac mini. No, it’s not a mini tower but with an eGPU, it can meet a surprising number of requirements.

It’s got a 6-core/12 thread desktop CPU, which will probably be 8/16 with the next refresh assuming Intel releases the appropriate CPU (and there’s no reason they shouldn’t). Max RAM is 64GB and is user upgradeable. With four Thunderbolt 3 ports, eGPU, SSD and other expansion options are available, including an external PCIe enclosure for the few who actually might need slots.

No, it’s not a tower, and being limited to x4 on an external PCIe bus instead of x16 internally isn’t ideal, but it’s a small market and it’s hard to satisfy 100% of customers. And the Mac Pro isn’t out of reach for revenue generating pros.

Well that’s my take anyway. It’s not that I don’t have sympathy for those that are caught out, but from a practical point of view, I can understand why Apple isn’t going to make a Mac Pro mini.

 

[vir2l2k]

oh look, I have a mac pro!

thanks to apple‘s ar kit

 

[theluggage]

And high profile launch at WWDC? See, that doesn’t work either because “Apple uses the event to showcase its new software and technologies for software developers“ AND “A $1,599 ticket is required to enter the conference.”

Usual fallacious "but WWDC is a developers conference" argument. The WWDC keynote is not a developers conference - it's one of Apple's 2-3 big press events of the year. It is used to announce new developments for mass-market consumer devices like the iPhone and iWatch as well as the mainstream Macs. It is streamed by a vastly wider audience than just developers who couldn't make the conference. It is top-of-the-page news for many consumer tech websites - MacRumors has a minute-by-minute update as it happens (The fact that there are several days of actual conference after the keynote is barely mentioned). It is frequently reported by the mainstream non-tech news channels. Very few industry events get anything remotely like that sort of coverage (and where they do, its usually for mass-market products like phones).

No high dollar system vendor has a website with their wares prominently displayed?

Not what I said. Most high-dollar system vendors (...and we're talking high-end $10k plus here, not off-the-shelf Dell/HP towers) don't advertise them alongside phones and tablets. Sure, you can find them if you go looking - but you won't stumble across dual-28-core or 10 GPU monsters if you don't know they exist.

In today’s market, how do they SELL anything then?

For a 5-digit plus workstation designed for "serious callers only" like film studios or audio production houses? Probably because the customer sent them/published an invitation-to-tender, or hired an "independent" consultant, or their CTO was invited to the (private & under NDA) launch.

Dell has a page dedicated to a $5000 HD.

Congratulations. Was its launch announced by the BBC?

If you go to the Dell site and start looking for serious data-center systems, pretty soon all the prices turn to "Request a quote".
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but rather that for a brief time there (the age of the cheese grater Mac Pro)

Well, "brief" as in 1997 - 2012:

Power Macintosh G3 233 Minitower Specs (Power Mac G3 MT, M6431LL/A, N/A*, M4405, None): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the Power Macintosh G3 233 Minitower. Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

Power Macintosh G4 450 (AGP) Specs (Power Mac G4 - AGP, M7232LL/A*, PowerMac3,1, M5183, 1810/1843*): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the Power Macintosh G4 450 (AGP). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

Power Macintosh G5 1.8 (PCI-X) Specs (Power Mac G5, M9031LL/A, PowerMac7,2, A1047, 1969): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the Power Macintosh G5 1.8 (PCI-X). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

Mac Pro "Quad Core" 2.0 (Original) Specs (Mac Pro, BTO/CTO, MacPro1,1*, A1186, 2113): EveryMac.com

Technical specifications for the Mac Pro "Quad Core" 2.0 (Original). Dates sold, processor type, memory info, hard drive details, price and more.

everymac.com

...all in the $2000-$3000 price band (and computer prices have never followed inflation) and all hinging open at the flip of a catch.

...before that you can argue the toss (the Mac II was easily expandable and arguably 'affordable' if the alternative was a Unix graphics workstation).

The people this is aimed at, are not buying it for how it looks.

You'd think, but then you scroll down the Mac Pro page on apple.com and get to "Use AR to see Mac Pro in your workspace".

 

[chucker23n1]

Because the effective target market for this new Mac Pro is quite different than for the previous Mac Pro.

That was a typo, actually. I meant to say "can't".

Those are exciting numbers, but what on earth does that have to do with what I was saying? You might as well add in that the sun is (roughly) 93 million miles away. That's an even bigger number. Also has no relation.

Err.

The point is that $146/mo isn't that much in the context of per-employee costs.

None of which are expandable the way that the old Mac Pro was.

If the entire Mac line was fully fleshed out with models fitting every need and use case, then few would be complaining about a $12k (with monitor) combo. It'd sell to the very high-end users, and those with not quite so lofty needs would buy lesser machines (but still above the consumer level). But the cheese grater Mac pro also served the contingent that wanted/needed an expandable machine and could afford to spend a bit extra. This Mac Pro shuts that contingent out. If there were an xMac that those users could buy, they wouldn't be complaining about the Mac Pro.

But there never was an "xMac" (unless you count the ca. 1997 Performa 6x00 series) and there never will be, and I find it baffling that people keep holding on to a hypothetical for two decades.

High-end computing is becoming more of a niche. Therefore, overall sales volume will be down no matter what. Therefore, the pricing will be adjusted.
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And high profile launch at WWDC? See, that doesn’t work either because “Apple uses the event to showcase its new software and technologies for software developers“ AND “A $1,599 ticket is required to enter the conference.” But how do you get that same information to all the unlucky developers that couldn’t attend? You stream it.

BUT WHAT IF CONSUMERS SEE THE STREAM? OR, WATCH IT AFTER THE ANNOUNCEMENT IS OVER!! WON’T THEY THINK WE’RE PROMOTING IT TO THEM??!!?

No. Because it’s a developer conference. Everyone should understand that everything announced at the WORLD WIDE DEVELOPER CONFERENCE is for developer consumption.

Almost none of the OS updates shown at WWDC are "for developer consumption".

And on the other end of the spectrum, the Pro Display XDR clearly isn't for developers either. Developers don't need that kind of color accuracy.

The Mac Pro is for developers (among other groups), and new APIs obviously are, but other than that, the WWDC keynote was not for developers.

 

[Simon R.]

...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The WWDC keynote is not a developers conference

The keynote is the keynote for the World Wide Developers Conference and consumer products are almost NEVER announced there. Every year, people think some or another consumer product is going to be announced, it comes and goes with no announcement, then people remember... oh yeah, DEVELOPERS conference. Then next year, the same thing.

Most high-dollar system vendors... don't advertise them alongside phones and tablets.

Because... most high-dollar system vendors... don’t MAKE phones and tablets. Do you propose that Apple NOT create a web page for one of their products because people might confuse it for being a consumer product? OR should they remove ALL other products and ONLY have the Mac Pro... but even if they ONLY have the Mac Pro, the fact that it’s on a website means that they’re PROMOTING IT TO CONSUMERS OMG!!!

you won't stumble across dual-28-core or 10 GPU monsters if you don't know they exist

Dear Apple,

Information about your Mac Pro is FAR too easy to find. Everyone knows that if you can find something easily, it’s made for consumers. So, could you please create a new webpage, maybe something like “boring non-consumer Apple stuff” then have a chat with Google for them to NOT list that page in the search results for Apple? Oh, and send a note to all the websites that cover Apple news imploring them NOT to even LINK to that site? Maybe put up a fake 404 page that people have to know exactly what letters to click on that will let them view the content.

Because, once people know it exists, and can easily confirm it’s existence, it’s then a consumer product and you can’t possibly expect to sell it for more than $1,000. Speaking of which, I’ve got some ideas about how you should change your promotion of the iMac Pro, too...

—-wrote no one... ever

For a 5-digit plus workstation designed for "serious callers only"

“James, can you send me a website to that product the guys in engineering have been asking me about? I need to build a pitch for the purchasing officer.”
”Sir, you KNOW that only CONSUMER products have websites. I’ll send you the phone number of the guy you’ll have to talk to in order to set up a private meeting during a time when you likely have WAY more things to do, sign an NDA and...”
”You know what? Nevermind. Just found a competitor that has a website. Makes it a LOT easier to prepare”
”Sir, if you found it on a public website, IT’S FOR CONSUMERS!!!”
”James, you need to get out more.”

Was its launch announced by the BBC?

So, it’s not that Apple is promoting it (I mean, Apple’s been positively MUM over the whole thing for quite awhile), it becomes a consumer product when OTHER people promote it!! Well, dang, that’s a harder problem to solve. Apple needs to get to work explaining to irresponsible media outlets like the BBC and MacRumors that WWDC IS A WORLD WIDE DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE! Everything announced and discussed are primarily of interest to developers. Those sites getting all excited about every little thing Apple does is leading certain people, to think that the WORLD WIDE DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE KEYNOTE is actually CONSUMER FREE FOR ALL ENJOY ALL THIS STUFF THAT IS DEFINITELY MEANT FOR CONSUMERS AND THEN WE’LL SPEND THE REST OF THE WEEK TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPER STUFF.

I mean, just going back to what you consider to be Apple “promoting” the Mac Pro as a consumer product.
1. Informational webpage
2. WWDC Keynote

Let’s just assume that BOTH of those could be considered consumer focused. Compare that to what Apple does that actually IS consumer focused. FAR more than two isolated events.

I mean if you really want to believe that the Mac Pro is being marketed at consumers, you’re free to do so. I will concede that there’s nothing I can do to change your mind. I would hope that others reading the thread could see that the evidence of Apple promoting the Mac Pro as a consumer product is fairly weak, though.

Very few industry events get anything remotely like that sort of coverage

Could have something to do with being the most valuable company in the world, with millions of fans all over the world that want to know EVERY little thing they’re doing, regardless of if it’s consumer or not... but yeah, probably not.

 

[inpinotveritas]

any other person would have definitely rationalized that in 10 pages, such a theory may have been debunked 10 times over....

but no, not you.

Bless your heart.

 

[Korican100]

Bless your heart.

Bless yours right back <3

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Almost none of the OS updates shown at WWDC are "for developer consumption".

Every one of the OS updates shown at WWDC was for developers to know what they would have to CODE for in the coming months. They keynote accurately gave a rundown of what new features will be made available in upcoming releases across a range of products (in addition to what new hardware they may need to code for), then after the show, these OS’s, meant initially for developers only, were made available to developers.

But, as I’ve mentioned before, if you personally want to see the WWDC keynote as a consumer level activity, there’s nothing I can tell you that will change your mind.

 

[chucker23n1]

The keynote is the keynote for the World Wide Developers Conference and consumer products are almost NEVER announced there. Every year, people think some or another consumer product is going to be announced, it comes and goes with no announcement, then people remember... oh yeah, DEVELOPERS conference. Then next year, the same thing.

The developers' keynote is basically the State of the Union address.

The WWDC keynote often shows no new products at all, but when it does, they're rarely developer-focused.

Some recent products shown at WWDC (not counting OS releases):

2012
Apple Maps
Retina MacBook Pro
updates to MacBook Air

2013
updates to Mac Pro, AirPort, MacBook Air
iWork for iCloud
iTunes Radio

2014
nothing

2015
Apple Music

2016
nothing

2017
updates to iMac, MacBook MacBook Pro, iPad Pro
iMac Pro, HomePod

2018
nothing

2019
Mac Pro, Pro Display XDR

How many of those are developer-focused?
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Every one of the OS updates shown at WWDC was for developers to know what they would have to CODE for in the coming months.

Only a portion of the OS updates is relevant to developers. And the keynote says virtually nothing about what it means in terms of APIs. Sometimes, some details like SwiftUI are mentioned, but for the most part, the main audience for the WWDC keynote is not developers, nor the press. It's the millions of customers streaming the keynote at home.

But, as I’ve mentioned before, if you personally want to see the WWDC keynote as a consumer level activity,

It is.

 

[Spectrum]

No, the G5's handles were OUCH. From someone who'd have to lug 30 of them around whenever we would have to reimage the Mac lab, the new Pro's handles look like luxurious.

Yes, I can understand the increased usability of the new bar handles. I just think they are an ugly *design* compared to cheesegrater (beautiful symmetry at top and bottom for handles and feet.).
Apple could have simply curved off the aluminium on the cheesegrater so they were not as sharp-edged without losing any design points.
I think it is the feet that really look weird on the new design...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The developers' keynote is basically the State of the Union address.

I’ve said, if you WANT to see the WWDC Keynote as a consumer focused thing, you’re free to do so. You won’t see me trying to change your mind that something not called “State of the Union address” is actually, in fact, a “State of the Union address”.

How many of those are developer-focused?

ALL OF THEM! LOL!
Even the ones where you say “nothing” those were ALSO developer focused. Developers need to know what’s coming so they can code for it and in EVERY case, there is a need for a developer to know how what Apple is announcing will affect how their code integrates with it (and that’s why much of what is spoken about in broad terms in the keynote is then discussed in detail in sessions during the week).

Only a portion of the OS updates is relevant to developers.

I get it, developers, apparently, in your world don’t care about the OS that they’ll be actually using to make money in the future. And that’s fine!

 

[MisterAndrew]

I am all for empowering the MacOS and bringing it as a main power system for the professionals/enterprise, but I am still convinced this is the ugliest computer(or maybe product) Apple has ever produced.

Not sure why they couldn't do a better job.

I don't agree. I think it's gorgeous!

Just as a reminder - Intel just lowered the price of it’s processors by 50%. If the price of the MacPro would reflect the component cost It would be 500$ cheaper now.

Will be interesting to see how long people are willing to pay insane prices and get buggy and crippled operating systems.

On the other hand it is fully understandable. The DJ needs a faster Mac and is willing to pay the price/gets it for free from Apple. Story told.

Intel did not lower the prices of the CPUs in the Mac Pro. The base CPU is still listed at $749. I've only been able to find 1 store online selling it for cheaper, but only a little at $732.13 (Provantage).

Intel® Xeon® W-3223 Processor (16.5M Cache, 3.50 GHz) - Product Specifications | Intel

Intel® Xeon® W-3223 Processor (16.5M Cache, 3.50 GHz) quick reference with specifications, features, and technologies.

ark.intel.com

 

[theluggage]

I get it, developers, apparently, in your world don’t care about the OS that they’ll be actually using to make money in the future.

"Of interest to developers" does not mean "only of interest to developers". Developers won't be making money off Apple stuff if Apple doesn't sell its hardware and OSs to consumers.

You're still confusing the WWDC keynote (which is what most people here mean when they say "WWDC" and aren't dealing with a compulsive flinger of red herrings) with the conference it kicks off, where developers go to technical sessions to learn in detail about developer-y things. Apple's WWDC keynote is, and always has been, a publicity event - best to get your new products announced before you describe them in detail to a room full of gossipy developers, and the developers ca usually be relied on to cheer and whoop enthusiastically (although Apple managed to find their limit this year with the $1k display stand which even developers realise is never going to grace their lowly desks).

 

[jgdeschamps]

Waves, Toontrack, Arturia, Universal Audio, and Native Instruments plug-ins, virtual instruments, and hardware doesn't work, and that's only a small sampling of companies off the top of my head. There are dozens of others. Press releases have gone out saying their products are not compatible or only partially compatible with Catalina, and updates are forthcoming. While Logic offers quality, built-in plug-ins, no professional is going to limit themselves to the options Logic provides. Heck, I'm only a bedroom musician, but pretty much every plug-in I own doesn't work under Catalina, nor does my interface.

For those with questions on compatibility, Sweetwater has an excellent listing: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-10-15-catalina-compatibility-list/#a

Not completely true. I own 22 Waves plugins including software instruments like Element, Flowmotion and Clavinet (still in V10), a piano library that dependes on Kontakt 5, some of Arturia's synths, and two audio interfaces by Behringer and Presonus. They all work 100% with Catalina using Studio One Pro v4.5 (also with Garageband, Mainstage and Logic and stand-alone versions of the plugins.)
Most of the e-mails those companies sent were to warn you that they had not completely tested their software under Catalina, and should you face compatibility issues with the new macOS, they wouldn't be accountable for that if you have a critical project that depended on their software.
There were very few companies whose plugins actually didn't work.

 

[ctrlshft]

I am super excited about the potential and the underlying technology, but man this thing is ugly.

 

[Korican100]

I am super excited about the potential and the underlying technology, but man this thing is ugly.

I’d say you are in the Minority. This thing is beautiful

 

[CartoonCat]

Waves, Toontrack, Arturia, Universal Audio, and Native Instruments plug-ins, virtual instruments, and hardware doesn't work, and that's only a small sampling of companies off the top of my head. There are dozens of others. Press releases have gone out saying their products are not compatible or only partially compatible with Catalina, and updates are forthcoming. While Logic offers quality, built-in plug-ins, no professional is going to limit themselves to the options Logic provides. Heck, I'm only a bedroom musician, but pretty much every plug-in I own doesn't work under Catalina, nor does my interface.

For those with questions on compatibility, Sweetwater has an excellent listing: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/macos-10-15-catalina-compatibility-list/#a

Will the new MacPro ship with Mojave or Catalina. Probably Catalina. Can you downgrade to Mojave?

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Never heard of Calvin Harris, nor do I really care who he is. But those poor, pathetic feet on that expensive computer... It's a design travesty if I ever saw one!

People who say "Never heard of [Famous Artist]" are just cringe. If someone said they'd never heard of Bach, would it somehow make Bach not famous? Google him and youtube him, you ignoramus.

 

[wigby]

DJ?
He's a producer (and was a producer before being a DJ iirc)

The first time I heard of this guy was through this story's headline "Mac Pro Spotted in Studio of DJ Calvin Harris Ahead of Launch"

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

This song has more value than Apple's Mac Pro.
I'm still going to eat Kraft Mac as this is overpriced by more than $2000!
(Mac Pro 4 & 5.1).

 

[Mayostudent]

Creative professional? Who??

 

[petsounds]

It’s designed to sit under a desk for the next 5-10 years. Nobody who really needs one is going to care what it looks like.

So you don't agree with Jony Ive that the inside of cabinet drawers should be treated with as much care as the outside? Meaning, even if it's not seen, it should still look good. Because the designer will know. Well, in this case everyone will know.

The new Mac Pro is surely a beast, but on aesthetics it can't compete with the old cheese grater Mac Pros. And at least in my opinion for pure aesthetic appeal it's one of the worst Mac designs Apple has come up with.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Will the new MacPro ship with Mojave or Catalina. Probably Catalina. Can you downgrade to Mojave?

No you can’t, older OSes don’t support newer machines. The minimum OS is whatever it ships with.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Creative professional? Who??

Songwriter, engineer, producer, arranger, performer variously with Rihanna, Mary J Blige, Pitbull, Chris Brown, Kylie Minogue and others. Also DJs.

You might be too young to be familiar, or maybe too old. Or maybe proudly displaying a lack of knowledge is what passes for being edgy on the Internet these days ¯\_(ツ)_/¯