Macbook 2015 Battery Capacity degrading fast ?

[Queen6]

I have been really interested in this aspect of the new generation of fanless laptops. Fortunately, with my usage only being light, macbook only gets warm on the bottom when updating the system and big downloads. I suspect the heat spread across the bottom of the device will warm the batteries more than bigger fan based laptops, but whether this has any significant battery degradation is still to be seen. However, the iPad is similar in that it can warm up now and again and the battery is right beside the logic board, yet Ive never had any issues with the batteries (even an original iPad from 2011, still going strong)

Have to say, my previous rMBP and current Air hardly ever warm up at all (bottom plates always cool to touch).

Im currently on my 7th cycle and battery health is hovering around 95% (2 month old manufacture date). My Air is on 30 something cycles and is 12 months (manufacture date) old and is on ~95% also.

Some advice I keep hearing is

1) That its best to charge frequently and not to keep performing deep discharges (like 100 to 10 % 5 % etc). Only intentionally do a deep discharge every few months to keep the battery in calibration.

2) To not leave laptop plugged in all day every day.

3) To ensure batteries are not used, stored or charged at elevated temps (greater than 30oC ambient).

No need for calibration, you will only be consuming cycles needlessly. Lithium battery technology fairs better for longevity if you do avoid "deep discharging" the battery, equally dependent on usage it`s an inevitable factor. Nor is a portable continuously running on AC particularly good for the battery, as the electrons need to flow to keep the battery healthy.

As has been suggested by many; use the Notebook on the battery when you need to, don't fully discharge deliberately, and if your in the situation where your Notebooks more in the role of a desktop, let it run on the battery once or twice a month until the battery percentage reads 80%. As for temperature in practicality there is little you can do about it as much is related to ambient temperature, aside from elevating the rear of the Notebook.

Q-6

 

[Newtons Apple]

I have been really interested in this aspect of the new generation of fanless laptops. Fortunately, with my usage only being light, macbook only gets warm on the bottom when updating the system and big downloads. I suspect the heat spread across the bottom of the device will warm the batteries more than bigger fan based laptops, but whether this has any significant battery degradation is still to be seen. However, the iPad is similar in that it can warm up now and again and the battery is right beside the logic board, yet Ive never had any issues with the batteries (even an original iPad from 2011, still going strong)

Have to say, my previous rMBP and current Air hardly ever warm up at all (bottom plates always cool to touch).

Im currently on my 7th cycle and battery health is hovering around 95% (2 month old manufacture date). My Air is on 30 something cycles and is 12 months (manufacture date) old and is on ~95% also.

Some advice I keep hearing is

1) That its best to charge frequently and not to keep performing deep discharges (like 100 to 10 % 5 % etc). Only intentionally do a deep discharge every few months to keep the battery in calibration.

2) To not leave laptop plugged in all day every day.

3) To ensure batteries are not used, stored or charged at elevated temps (greater than 30oC ambient).

There is seldom a need to deep discharge batteries these days but the habit will not die. I would always use my device plugged in when power is available to prevent additional cycles on the battery. Leaving your laptop plugged in while not in use will not hurt the battery as the charging system shuts down after it is done.

 

[cmjars]

Update on my rMB. They replaced the battery and after several other componets failed they decided to replace it because Apple feels my rMB was not manufactured properly. So I have to wait for two weeks because I had the 1.3 rMb.

 

[Fuzzball84]

There is seldom a need to deep discharge batteries these days but the habit will not die. I would always use my device plugged in when power is available to prevent additional cycles on the battery. Leaving your laptop plugged in while not in use will not hurt the battery as the charging system shuts down after it is done.

Is that really true? The capacity of a battery will degrade, both with respect to calendar and number of cycles. Plus the tracking of the battery charge will go off slightly due to other discharge routes that do not result in permanent decrease in battery capacity. Therefore for the battery indicator in battery operated devices to show accurate numbers the battery circuitry has to be recalibrate by performing a complete continuous cycle.

Anyone have any information sources to say that this is not so true any more?

I have had recent devices go slightly out of calibration and by performing a deeper than usual discharge to around 2-5% remaining Ive had much more accurate battery remaining indicated for months, half a year afterwards.

Now I see Apple says with fixed batteries in MacBooks that the battery is pre-calibrated, but as with any such device that deteriorates this calibration will go 'off' slightly...

I have a laptop from 2007 that is still running strong, plus an iPhone 3GS and original iPad and I have always treated batteries as I described and only doing a deeper discharge than usual when required. I also have a samsung ultraportable (2 and a half years old) that is often fixed to mains power, except i used the samsung software to prevent it charging above 80%. Therefore, it sits at 80% charge for 2/3 of the time. When I use it off mains it is fine and every 6 months I perform a full charge cycle. Its battery health is at 93% total capacity.

Anyone else care to share similar info?
Any battery engineers?

Ive either been very lucky with batteries or my usage is treating them well.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I am tired of trying to convince people, each needs to do as they wish but deep cycling your battery does no more than wear your battery out early. It has so many charge/discharge cycles before it degrades in capacity. Any small amount of "calibration" you gain is simply not worth it and I doubt it being relative today. Maybe once a year IF you are having a problem.

Plug it in when you can and enjoy!

 

[Fuzzball84]

I am tired of trying to convince people, each needs to do as they wish but deep cycling your battery does no more than wear your battery out early. It has so many charge/discharge cycles before it degrades in capacity. Any small amount of "calibration" you gain is simply not worth it and I doubt it being relative today. Maybe once a year IF you are having a problem.

Plug it in when you can and enjoy!

If you keep it plugged in all the time the battery could degrade faster than if it were cycled. This is because high charge status combined with higher temps can do more damage than cycling itself.

Thats why a samsung representative told me to engage the battery lifespan extender (it caps charging to 80%) if I have it plugged in often. Even at 80% I can get ~5 hours of use out of it (its an ivy bridge i3) so its perfect.

I only know of samsung and IBM/Lenovo who make it easy to cap battery charging. For apple it would be a no go because they want devices that are easy to use and not get bogged down in details like that. Plus they want users to have as much capacity as possible once they are off the mains. Most laptops are upgraded every 2 to 3 years anyway, so battery degradation for most people is a non issue.

I just find it interesting lol sorry you are getting tired

 

[Queen6]

Is that really true? The capacity of a battery will degrade, both with respect to calendar and number of cycles. Plus the tracking of the battery charge will go off slightly due to other discharge routes that do not result in permanent decrease in battery capacity. Therefore for the battery indicator in battery operated devices to show accurate numbers the battery circuitry has to be recalibrate by performing a complete continuous cycle.

Anyone have any information sources to say that this is not so true any more?

I have had recent devices go slightly out of calibration and by performing a deeper than usual discharge to around 2-5% remaining Ive had much more accurate battery remaining indicated for months, half a year afterwards.

Now I see Apple says with fixed batteries in MacBooks that the battery is pre-calibrated, but as with any such device that deteriorates this calibration will go 'off' slightly...

I have a laptop from 2007 that is still running strong, plus an iPhone 3GS and original iPad and I have always treated batteries as I described and only doing a deeper discharge than usual when required. I also have a samsung ultraportable (2 and a half years old) that is often fixed to mains power, except i used the samsung software to prevent it charging above 80%. Therefore, it sits at 80% charge for 2/3 of the time. When I use it off mains it is fine and every 6 months I perform a full charge cycle. Its battery health is at 93% total capacity.

Anyone else care to share similar info?
Any battery engineers?

Ive either been very lucky with batteries or my usage is treating them well.

Yes you are correct batteries are sensitive to time & cycles, also temperature and power draw. I don't "deep discharge" my portables as it will likely happen in normal usage a few times a year, so no need to consume battery cycles needlessly. As long as you use the battery and do not expose it to extremes it will likely last for a significant period of time. For your usage the occasional deep discharge will cause no harm, equally it will consume cycles.

As for calibration it`s not such an issue now, ultimately the occasional "deep discharge" while using the the Notebook will correct any deviation of the battery indicator, as in once or twice a year is generally more than adequate as the drift is not significant. Bottom line is use the Notebook on the battery as you need to, equally don't discharge it needlessly as it only adds to the batteries wear, at the end of the day it`s a consumable. Nor should one obsess over the batteries performance, if there is any issue it will rapidly raise it`s head and Apple will deal with it.

Have seen the Samsung software, it`s solid solution to prevent needless battery wear on portables that are predominately connected to the mains supply.

Q-6

 

[Fuzzball84]

Advice to macbook users (intended as a joke, do not actually do this!)

1) Charge it whenever you can, even if you have to unplug medical equipment at a hospital to get a few percent boost

2) Charge during thunderstorms, lightning can reduce charge times from hours to minutes!

3) Don't cycle it at all, its bad for the battery. Just leave it switched off and admire the design, look how thin it is!

Next year the macbook will do without the battery! its obviously causing 'problems'.

Ive will introduce us to MacPaper!

 

[Fuzzball84]

Yes you are correct batteries are sensitive to time & cycles, also temperature and power draw. I don't "deep discharge" my portables as it will likely happen in normal usage a few times a year, so no need to consume battery cycles needlessly. As long as you use the battery and do not expose it to extremes it will likely last for a significant period of time. For your usage the occasional deep discharge will cause no harm, equally it will consume cycles.

As for calibration it`s not such an issue now, ultimately the occasional "deep discharge" while using the the Notebook will correct any deviation of the battery indicator, as in once or twice a year is generally more than adequate as the drift is not significant. Bottom line is use the Notebook on the battery as you need to, equally don't discharge it needlessly as it only adds to the batteries wear, at the end of the day it`s a consumable. Nor should one obsess over the batteries performance, if there is any issue it will rapidly raise it`s head and Apple will deal with it.

Have seen the Samsung software, it`s solid solution to prevent needless battery wear on portables that are predominately connected to the mains supply.

Q-6

Yeah, I didn't actually realize the Samsung machines had this feature when I bought the notebook. Was pleasantly surprised by it.

 

[Queen6]

Yeah, I didn't actually realize the Samsung machines had this feature when I bought the notebook. Was pleasantly surprised by it.

Same for ThinkPads, same as Samsung it requires user intervention, equally I doubt it would be a big deal to automate the process.

Q-6

 

[Fuzzball84]

Same for ThinkPads, same as Samsung it requires user intervention, equally I doubt it would be a big deal to automate the process.

Q-6

Even so, I can't see apple incorporating anything like this on the MacBooks. Anyway, they already incorporate special charging features to prolong battery life... such as only fast charging to 80% and then cycling a few percent at '100%' capacity... both for the MacBooks and iOS devices.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Advice to macbook users (intended as a joke, do not actually do this!)

1) Charge it whenever you can, even if you have to unplug medical equipment at a hospital to get a few percent boost

2) Charge during thunderstorms, lightning can reduce charge times from hours to minutes!

3) Don't cycle it at all, its bad for the battery. Just leave it switched off and admire the design, look how thin it is!

Next year the macbook will do without the battery! its obviously causing 'problems'.

Ive will introduce us to MacPaper!

Really cute

I would not leave my laptop, unused, plugged in for weeks but overnight will not help. In the end do as YOu wish as it is yours to use and abuse. Love the way you go from wrong, to and expert and then off the tracks.

 

[BoneHead001]

I just had my one month old MacBook 1.3GHz checked out at my local Apple Store. They ran some diagnostic tests which came up as "normal". It appeared to me that my MacBook's battery capacity was slipping, so I had it checked out. At 17 cycles, 98.47% – a bit different that CoconutBattery's 96%.

 

[Gert Agerholm]

I had just a strange experience with the battery on my 2012 rMBP. It have an original capacity on 8460mAh. It is almost always connected to the charger. It has 31 load cycles. When downloaded and started coconutbattry it said max charge it 8030mAh. I think this is OK for a 3 year old rMBP. Then I disconnected the charger and it is slowly discharging. Suddenly the Max. charge started to raise, it went up to about 8300mAh. Now it has stabilised as 8221mAh while discharging.

It looks like you can't trust the exact value of full charge. You can use it as a good indicator, but it might not be 100% exact.

 

[BoneHead001]

I had just a strange experience with the battery on my 2012 rMBP. It have an original capacity on 8460mAh. It is almost always connected to the charger. It has 31 load cycles. When downloaded and started coconutbattry it said max charge it 8030mAh. I think this is OK for a 3 year old rMBP. Then I disconnected the charger and it is slowly discharging. Suddenly the Max. charge started to raise, it went up to about 8300mAh. Now it has stabilised as 8221mAh while discharging.

It looks like you can't trust the exact value of full charge. You can use it as a good indicator, but it might not be 100% exact.

Yes, I have the same experience with regard to variance in the mAh numbers with CoconutBattery. The Apple Store Genius also said that you really can't trust any 3rd party software battery indicators like CoconutBattery.

 

[Gert Agerholm]

Yes, I have the same experience with regard to variance in the mAh numbers with CoconutBattery. The Apple Store Genius also said that you really can't trust any 3rd party software battery indicators like CoconutBattery.

I think the capacity is some how correct, Apples own system report is giving me the same result, but the measurement have a noticeable tolerance.

I tried to continue the discharge of my rMBP and saw that the max capacity measurement was depending on the actual power consumption, the bigger power consumption the smaller was the calculated max capicity. At 31W it thought the max was 8078mAh. I turned the display to 50%, then it thought the max was 8254mAh, by switching off the display the max should be 8297mAh. Looks like the calculated is depending on the actual power consumption.

At 6950mAh left I connected the charger again, now at full charge I have 8275mAh cococonutbattery, in battery health and also in Apple own system report.

My conclusion: Don't believe 100% on those measurement.

 

[BoneHead001]

I think the capacity is some how correct, Apples own system report is giving me the same result, but the measurement have a noticeable tolerance.

I tried to continue the discharge of my rMBP and saw that the max capacity measurement was depending on the actual power consumption, the bigger power consumption the smaller was the calculated max capicity. At 31W it thought the max was 8078mAh. I turned the display to 50%, then it thought the max was 8254mAh, by switching off the display the max should be 8297mAh. Looks like the calculated is depending on the actual power consumption.

At 6950mAh left I connected the charger again, now at full charge I have 8275mAh cococonutbattery, in battery health and also in Apple own system report.

My conclusion: Don't believe 100% on those measurement.

My experience is at the Apple Store, the reading was 98.47% at 17 cycles (no recorded mAh numbers). CoconutBattery reading earlier that day was 95% at 17 cycles. I do not think that CoconutBattery is absolutely accurate, like the Apple Store Genius said.

 

[Weaselboy]

My experience is at the Apple Store, the reading was 98.47% at 17 cycles (no recorded mAh numbers). CoconutBattery reading earlier that day was 95% at 17 cycles. I do not think that CoconutBattery is absolutely accurate, like the Apple Store Genius said.

It is actually the opposite. Coconut battery is accurate and the OS GUI is fudging that percentage in the menu.

If you look at the mAh hour readings in Coconut battery and also the OS system profile you will see that they always match exactly. But if you do the math to get the percentage you will see that Coconut battery is dead on always and the OS is off. Look at this screenshot of mine I just took. Both CB and the OS show 6129/6377. If you do the math, you get 96.1% like it show in CB, but notice the menu bar showing 100%.

I have always suspected Apple does this so people don't get concerned when their battery does not always show 100% when charged.

 

[Queen6]

It is actually the opposite. Coconut battery is accurate and the OS GUI is fudging that percentage in the menu.

If you look at the mAh hour readings in Coconut battery and also the OS system profile you will see that they always match exactly. But if you do the math to get the percentage you will see that Coconut battery is dead on always and the OS is off. Look at this screenshot of mine I just took. Both CB and the OS show 6129/6377. If you do the math, you get 96.1% like it show in CB, but notice the menu bar showing 100%.

I have always suspected Apple does this so people don't get concerned when their battery does not always show 100% when charged.

Agree I see the same across all my Mac portables, equally the values should be taken as indictors not absolutes, which may also explain Apple`s rational. For the most part I don't even display the battery percentage, just looking now on my 1.2 MacBook OS X is at 100% and CB 96.4% it`s still charging and will get up there sooner or later.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

It is actually the opposite.

Bizarre my own Macbook 11.1 also has 100.7% of design capacity, manufactured 2014-10-27 and the good news is it`s on 53 load cycles started off with 104% of design capacity

Q-6

 

[BoneHead001]

It is actually the opposite. Coconut battery is accurate and the OS GUI is fudging that percentage in the menu.

I have always suspected Apple does this so people don't get concerned when their battery does not always show 100% when charged.

The test that the apple Store genius used was separate from the "About This Mac>Systems Report" data. My rMB was started in some analysis data mode, and then connected to a server within the store which had Apple troubleshooting software. The numbers were 3 points off of CoconutBattery. Again, the Genius said that third-party software is not completely reliable.

I guess I shouldn't be too worried because I purchased the additional Apple Care warranty, so if it dips below 80%, Apple will replace the battery. In this particular unit design, I think they replace the lower half because everything is glued in place.

 

[Weaselboy]

The numbers were 3 points off of CoconutBattery. Again, the Genius said that third-party software is not completely reliable.

Ah... I see. Thing is CB is reporting exactly what the OS is, so it is not a case of CB being inaccurate. If what you are saying about the Apple diagnostics is correct (no reason to doubt you), the issue then is the OS is reporting something different than the diagnostic tool.

 

[BoneHead001]

Ah... I see. Thing is CB is reporting exactly what the OS is, so it is not a case of CB being inaccurate. If what you are saying about the Apple diagnostics is correct (no reason to doubt you), the issue then is the OS is reporting something different than the diagnostic tool.

Ya, the Genius kinda went on-and-on a bit how their diagnostics were way better than any third party software. If it is OSX related, I hope they fix the operating system's inaccuracies.

 

[Patches88]

After 48 charge cycles my rMB battery is at 89% of capacity. I've been on the Apple Support site chatting with customer service and after resetting the SMC with no results they are sending me into the Apple Store on Tuesday to have the battery tested.

 

[nikster0029]

After replacing computer twice, this new one has 20 cycles and 90% charge.... I may just return it permanently.