MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh

[fpnc]

...Without making the logic board larger, there is physically no room for (a) the processor, (b) the chipset, and (c) a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro. For this I cite the dozen or so Logic Board transplants I've done on that exact machine. I know what it looks like naked and it doesn't have the goods. ...

That's a common argument but it isn't necessarily true. Just remember, the basic design on the 13" MacBook Pro originated from the unibody 13" MacBook which probably began design almost three years ago (since the unibody MacBook was introduced in Oct. 2008). I'm not the first to take issue with such claims, note this response by another forum member just yesterday:

People make this claim as if it were a fact.

Only the Apple motherboard engineers know whether it's possible to include a separate graphics chip (not "card") on the board.

Parts get smaller, more integrated (so you need fewer of them), a port could be removed or moved, the battery could be made slightly smaller (since Sandy Bridge can use less power, this wouldn't necessarily reduce battery life).

Apple's engineers may surprise you.

To which I replied:

...In fact other manufactures have managed discrete graphics in systems similar to the 13" MacBook Pro's form factor. Of course, you're not going to find many systems (or any systems) that are an exact duplicate to either of Apple's full-featured 13" MacBooks. Once you figure in Apple's profit margins and some of the Mac's unique features it's hard to make direct comparisons to determine what may or may not be possible.

Lastly, when engineers designed the motherboard for the original unibody MacBook I don't believe that they began by saying that we're going to cram everything possible into this form factor. They look at price targets, manufacturability (for the time when the product will be introduced), battery capacity, heat dissipation, and other factors and then attempt to build a system that can remain competitive for at least a few years without major change (or which has relatively easy upgrade paths). In fact, it would be kind of pointless for them to spend money on any effort to make the motherboard smaller than it actually has to be (that is, include unused space within the enclosure). The flip side or balance to my argument is that they also won't make a motherboard design larger or populate it with more chips simply so that it fits nicely within the enclosure (that is, unless doing so has other significant benefits or if that larger size is required for practical or technical reasons). So, in a sense the motherboard design becomes a balance on cost, manufacturability, target market, form factor (size), and projected product lifetime.

Although I've suggested the removal of the optical drive from the MacBook Pros I've never tried to insist that this would be the only way they could fit a discrete graphics chip into the 13" form factor. It might make it easier and cheaper to do so, but it's probably not a requirement given other changes and the march of technology over the last several years.

 

[alexxk]

So, what's the situation on macbook pro stocks today??? Amazon still have all of them available except for the 17..

 

[ciTiger]

Yes, any recent activity?

 

[dlubis]

want to change my MBP 13-inch (2008) to MBP 15-inch, not in a hurry, so should i go now or wait for a few months?

 

[Yebubbleman]

Thanks But hey Although I don't agree with you there you seem to have patience enough to respond to everyone so Kudos to your for that.


As for the durability issue I guess you do have a point.
However I always take very good care of my laptops (they are expensive) and overall the MBP 13 has maintained its "stylish" design longer than the White which gets dirty. Come to think of it do you think people and those students know the white is more durable?


About the "getting dirty" the MBP doesn't even seems to get dirty, is it just me?

Educators who put in the orders for the white MacBook know that it is more durable. I'd say most general consumers aren't aware of the fact. But then again, most of them are careful enough to neither ding nor dent a laptop to the point where the added durability matters. It's primarily in the K-12 market where it matters most. That and any other Mac-laptop-purchasing school that needn't the features that the 13" Pro has over it, but still wanting to buy a full featured Mac laptop for an inexpensive price relative to the cost of any of the higher-end models.

As for the new MacBook Pros getting dirty, I've seen it, but only with people who let it get dirty. I'm not seeing the same discolorations that I've seen on the pre-Unibody systems, if that's what you're referring to.

want to change my MBP 13-inch (2008) to MBP 15-inch, not in a hurry, so should i go now or wait for a few months?

Wait for a few months. Trust me, it's a much better investment.

That's a common argument but it isn't necessarily true. Just remember, the basic design on the 13" MacBook Pro originated from the unibody 13" MacBook which probably began design almost three years ago (since the unibody MacBook was introduced in Oct. 2008). I'm not the first to take issue with such claims, note this response by another forum member just yesterday:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/why-the-13-macbook-pro-didnt-get-a-core-i5-upgrade.ars

Also, the Late 2008 Aluminum MacBook never had a discrete GPU, they were using a chip from NVIDIA that acted as both the IGP and the system chipset, the very predecessor to the chip that serves the same function in the Mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro, white MacBook, and Mac mini today.

To which I replied:

Lastly, when engineers designed the motherboard for the original unibody MacBook I don't believe that they began by saying that we're going to cram everything possible into this form factor. They look at price targets, manufacturability (for the time when the product will be introduced), battery capacity, heat dissipation, and other factors and then attempt to build a system that can remain competitive for at least a few years without major change (or which has relatively easy upgrade paths). In fact, it would be kind of pointless for them to spend money on any effort to make the motherboard smaller than it actually has to be (that is, include unused space within the enclosure). The flip side or balance to my argument is that they also won't make a motherboard design larger or populate it with more chips simply so that it fits nicely within the enclosure (that is, unless doing so has other significant benefits or if that larger size is required for practical or technical reasons). So, in a sense the motherboard design becomes a balance on cost, manufacturability, target market, form factor (size), and projected product lifetime.

Although I've suggested the removal of the optical drive from the MacBook Pros I've never tried to insist that this would be the only way they could fit a discrete graphics chip into the 13" form factor. It might make it easier and cheaper to do so, but it's probably not a requirement given other changes and the march of technology over the last several years.

Read the Ars article. It's definitely a space issue; again, I've seen that logic board many times and the article is dead on. The only way it is happening is if the board is allowed more room. Otherwise it isn't happening. Period. I'm not an engineer, but I know that you can't magically engineer more space for a discrete GPU on that board with the size that it currently is.

 

[holden89]

I'm way out of the loop, but I'm looking at getting a new MBP in the coming months. I'm slowly working my way through this thread, and have found a lot of people want to get rid of the optical drive. Can I ask why (other than to make it thinner)!? I don't want to have to buy an external optical drive just to be able to install programs that can't be downloaded off the internet, or I have disc for already. I also use my laptop to watch DVDs when I'm around the house, and when I go away. Having to carry around an external optical drive all the time - to me - sounds ridiculous.

The future may be everything gets downloaded, but that future is no where near around the corner. I have a 10gb monthly internet plan, because I have to go wireless (I'm in Australia), and I can't get any larger plan. Downloading Adobe creative suite would use that all up, and that's just one program..!

If there is no optical drive in the new MBP it will seriously put second thoughts in my mind about getting one.

 

[cool11]

There are people that really NEED optical drive.

13 years ago, Sun company told that 'the Net, is the computer'.
13 years later, we still all of us use our personal computers, even if we are close tied to the Net.

So, don't be so furious to get rid of dvd drive. We are not living in Space Odyssey, we live down to earth.

 

[ArmCortexA8]

Hi all

Well i put my MBP 13" on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730587128&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT) , has 6 days to go and its hit AU$810 already (cost me AU$1,399 September 2010). Now remember I upgraded the RAM to 2 x Corsair 4GB DDR3 1066 (lifetime warranty), plus currently I have a Corsair X-128 SSD in the MPB 13" and it absolutely screams along - boots complete system with all apps installed in 3 seconds - shuts down in 1 second completely - now thats quick.

Naturally, I will be reinstalling the original 250GB drive and doing a fresh install of Mac OSX with the system default applications. I will keep the Corsair X-128 for my next Mac. In the mean time I will be switching back temporarily to a Windows based system using Office (so can import my emails via PST) until I decided on the next Mac. The questions I ponder are this:-

1. Do I wait for the next MPB revision and possibly go a larger size?
2. Do I get a MacBook Air 11" or 13" equivalent to the MBP I am selling?
3. I am concerned the next MBP wont allow user upgradable 2.5" HDD / and or RAM (possibly going the way of the MacBook Air).
4. I do prefer an optical drive as I rip DVD's using Handbrake, but its not a necessity.

Plus with the price of a MacBook Air 13" and 4GB RAM hitting almost AU$1,800, this further indicates the MBP is better value. Any advice would be greatly appreciated to get an overall view

 

[morty192]

Hi all

Well i put my MBP 13" on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730587128&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT) , has 6 days to go and its hit AU$810 already (cost me AU$1,399 September 2010). Now remember I upgraded the RAM to 2 x Corsair 4GB DDR3 1066 (lifetime warranty), plus currently I have a Corsair X-128 SSD in the MPB 13" and it absolutely screams along - boots complete system with all apps installed in 3 seconds - shuts down in 1 second completely - now thats quick.

Naturally, I will be reinstalling the original 250GB drive and doing a fresh install of Mac OSX with the system default applications. I will keep the Corsair X-128 for my next Mac. In the mean time I will be switching back temporarily to a Windows based system using Office (so can import my emails via PST) until I decided on the next Mac. The questions I ponder are this:-

1. Do I wait for the next MPB revision and possibly go a larger size?
2. Do I get a MacBook Air 11" or 13" equivalent to the MBP I am selling?
3. I am concerned the next MBP wont allow user upgradable 2.5" HDD / and or RAM (possibly going the way of the MacBook Air).
4. I do prefer an optical drive as I rip DVD's using Handbrake, but its not a necessity.

Plus with the price of a MacBook Air 13" and 4GB RAM hitting almost AU$1,800, this further indicates the MBP is better value. Any advice would be greatly appreciated to get an overall view

From what I gather the macbook air is all about portability if yu don't do alot of traveling with your laptop and still have a need for optical media then macbook pro all the way!

 

[Filipek]

I apologize for that, but I do have an explanation. After I post my explanation, someone says something like "why the hell would ::insert your point here:: be possible?" So I repeat it again and again and again. I'm as sick of typing it all out as you are of reading it, but dudes on the Internet asked why it was and how it could be, so I, over and over again, gave them the answer I had. Really, I don't claim to be smart or have anything save for the fact that I have closely followed Apple news and rumors for the past seven years and am knowledgable of the trends and decisions that they've set in that time. I'm sure most people on this forum are, although it really doesn't seem it at times. And I love a good debate as much as the next guy.



I'm not 100% convinced. I'm pretty sure. I'd bet money on it. Not a lot of money, though. I don't think anyone on here has any claim that they're sure of that's based on anything more than speculation. It is MacRumors after all.



Without making the logic board larger, there is physically no room for (a) the processor, (b) the chipset, and (c) a discrete GPU on the 13" MacBook Pro. For this I cite the dozen or so Logic Board transplants I've done on that exact machine. I know what it looks like naked and it doesn't have the goods.



I know about 1000 people all told and only three of them wouldn't appreciate the lack of an internal optical drive for it being an unnecessary lack of functionality. These people aren't techies, they are average joes who just want a full-featured computer. Is my sampling complete? Obviously not, but it's large enough to have me convinced that people on these forums are full of **** when they say that everyone wants the optical drive gone.



For this I cite the hundreds of people I see walk in to my workplace having bought those machines versus the other zillion of so I see walk into my workplace with the 13" Pro. Not a good enough sampling for you?



They're not losing customers, but they're one for simplicity and if they can't make the 13" Pro substantially better, then why have two laptops that, save for the enclosure and a couple of ports, are essentially the same computer under the hood?



I am still waiting for numbers on the notion that it STILL is their best selling model. As for your notion that users will be scared off, there has always been a #1 selling model. Before the 13" Pro it was the white MacBook, before that, it was the 12' PowerBook G4. Is that not good enough of a citation for you?



We are, but only because the education market covets the white MB. As for data, I'll cite the schools that have come into my workplace with multiple white MacBooks to be repaired, and the one only piece of insider info I know as to the reason why they're still even selling a white model. Were it not for that, I'd be in complete agreement with you.




It's okay, I got tired of repeating it to people who'd ask right below me giving them their answer as though they never read it.

Well let's not waste much words about it, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it.

Also I wonder what kind of company you work in, and the type of customers you get. Because if they're 'random' customers, I mean random like in, picking randomly 1000 customers out of the group that uses Macbook Pro all over the world, then OK. But if it are for example only college students, or only webdesigners than for example I don't find it a good example. You get my point right?

But we will see what happens, hopefully as soon as possible.

 

[Alphadan]

Seriously guys, I find it really hard to believe that the 13" MBP is not getting a new CPU, if Apple keeps the C2D there I would take it as an insult. I am currently in the market for a 13" MBP, and it'd be a let down if the unibody 13 incher was replaced with the 13" MB only because they are similar, performance-wise.

You keep saying that the 15 and 17inchers will get the new Sandy Bridge, but you forget the fact that they got a new i7 option back in October. The thing is that Sandy Bridge was just announced, and I don't think they are going to make it into the high end MBPs in time.

 

[stevo101]

Seriously guys, I find it really hard to believe that the 13" MBP is not getting a new CPU, if Apple keeps the C2D there I would take it as an insult. I am currently in the market for a 13" MBP, and it'd be a let down if the unibody 13 incher was replaced with the 13" MB only because they are similar, performance-wise.

You keep saying that the 15 and 17inchers will get the new Sandy Bridge, but you forget the fact that they got a new i7 option back in October. The thing is that Sandy Bridge was just announced, and I don't think they are going to make it into the high end MBPs in time.

haha your telling me I bought the last updated 13 MBP and it wasnt too good, so i sold it (bought a low end asus to hold me over) and i'm waiting to see what the new stuff brings I will even switch to 15 MBP if it means getting decent specs! the new android phones coming out have dual core processors talk of quad core soon to come?!! now apple isnt only going to be out speced from windows computers but mobile phones!! thats what scares me! windows people think we are crazy as it is paying as much as we do for apples hopefully jobs doesnt let us down!!!

 

[ciTiger]

Off-topic:
Don't you guys hate the weekends? (forget about the part that you don't work at weekends for a second ok? )

Rumors are always so slow at weekends unless there is an event scheduled..

 

[eah2119]

I doubt they'll have only SSD. Too expensive for such small space. I'd say they'll have the same options as before but also an option for set-up much like the current macbook airs.

 

[Yebubbleman]

Hi all

Well i put my MBP 13" on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220730587128&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT) , has 6 days to go and its hit AU$810 already (cost me AU$1,399 September 2010). Now remember I upgraded the RAM to 2 x Corsair 4GB DDR3 1066 (lifetime warranty), plus currently I have a Corsair X-128 SSD in the MPB 13" and it absolutely screams along - boots complete system with all apps installed in 3 seconds - shuts down in 1 second completely - now thats quick.

Naturally, I will be reinstalling the original 250GB drive and doing a fresh install of Mac OSX with the system default applications. I will keep the Corsair X-128 for my next Mac. In the mean time I will be switching back temporarily to a Windows based system using Office (so can import my emails via PST) until I decided on the next Mac. The questions I ponder are this:-

1. Do I wait for the next MPB revision and possibly go a larger size?
2. Do I get a MacBook Air 11" or 13" equivalent to the MBP I am selling?
3. I am concerned the next MBP wont allow user upgradable 2.5" HDD / and or RAM (possibly going the way of the MacBook Air).
4. I do prefer an optical drive as I rip DVD's using Handbrake, but its not a necessity.

Plus with the price of a MacBook Air 13" and 4GB RAM hitting almost AU$1,800, this further indicates the MBP is better value. Any advice would be greatly appreciated to get an overall view

If you're selling a 13" MacBook Pro, I'd save up for the extra to get at least the bottom of the line 15" model. In hearing about the potential of the next 13" Pro, assuming it sticks around, to either retain a Core 2 Duo, or get an inferior IGP, I decided to say screw it and save for a machine where neither problem is an issue, and as a bonus, I get 2.1 more diagonal inches of screen real-estate.

Well let's not waste much words about it, I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it.

Also I wonder what kind of company you work in, and the type of customers you get. Because if they're 'random' customers, I mean random like in, picking randomly 1000 customers out of the group that uses Macbook Pro all over the world, then OK. But if it are for example only college students, or only webdesigners than for example I don't find it a good example. You get my point right?

But we will see what happens, hopefully as soon as possible.

While I'm based in a college town, I do get college students, but I also get graphic designers, people who do know a lot about computers (who are neither a student nor a graphic designer), people who just use the computer for web browsing and word processing. Some stereotypes certainly more than others, but I feel as though it's a healthy mix of people. Where I think my sampling is a bit skewwed is in that quite a few of them are kind of crazy in general, though I doubt that specifically factors into their preference of retaining the optical drive.

I mean really, I'm fine to just say that we have a difference in opinion and move on with it. I think that the 15" and 17" refreshes will be boring and more or less easily predicted, the 13", I feel will be a surprise no matter what happens.

Off-topic:
Don't you guys hate the weekends? (forget about the part that you don't work at weekends for a second ok? )

Rumors are always so slow at weekends unless there is an event scheduled..

SERIOUSLY! I hate slow rumor weekends!

 

[fpnc]

...You keep saying that the 15 and 17inchers will get the new Sandy Bridge, but you forget the fact that they got a new i7 option back in October. The thing is that Sandy Bridge was just announced, and I don't think they are going to make it into the high end MBPs in time.

The Arrandale CPUs (Core i5 and i7) first appeared in the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros in April 2010, so they are just about ready for a CPU refresh. In some respects, the new Sandy Bridge CPUs are a near "drop in" to the existing 15" and 17" MacBook Pros, they are not what I would call a significant architectural change to the current motherboard design. Of course, that can't be said for the 13" MacBook Pro.

 

[Yebubbleman]

The Arrandale CPUs (Core i5 and i7) first appeared in the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros in April 2010, so they are just about ready for a CPU refresh. In some respects, the new Sandy Bridge CPUs are a near "drop in" to the existing 15" and 17" MacBook Pros, they are not what I would call a significant architectural change to the current motherboard design. Of course, that can't be said for the 13" MacBook Pro.

Who knows what will happen to the 13" MacBook Pro.

Otherwise, the desktop counterpart to Arrandale used one motherboard socket while the Sandy Bridge desktop boards use another. Who's to say that it won't be a different connection requirement that will also mandate a (albeit, slight) redesign to the logic board?

 

[Alphadan]

If you're selling a 13" MacBook Pro, I'd save up for the extra to get at least the bottom of the line 15" model. In hearing about the potential of the next 13" Pro, assuming it sticks around, to either retain a Core 2 Duo, or get an inferior IGP, I decided to say screw it and save for a machine where neither problem is an issue, and as a bonus, I get 2.1 more diagonal inches of screen real-estate


SERIOUSLY! I hate slow rumor weekends!

But then again, what you are hearing are just rumours. I am quite sure that the new 13" MBP won't be as sheety as some people are expecting it to be, cause really, some people seem to be doing their best to slate the 13" MBP.
In my opinion, not only is it the most portable macbook pro, but also the most affordable for students (obviously) and therefore, one of the most populars. If Apple does anything to it, it will surely be an improvement, so let's stop discouraging potential buyers like me. I am sure nobody likes hearing that what they are going to buy is going to be totally outdated, overpriced, or even worse, discontinued.

 

[Funkymonk]

But then again, what you are hearing are just rumours. I am quite sure that the new 13" MBP won't be as sheety as some people are expecting it to be, cause really, some people seem to be doing their best to slate the 13" MBP.
In my opinion, not only is it the most portable macbook pro, but also the most affordable for students (obviously) and therefore, one of the most populars. If Apple does anything to it, it will surely be an improvement, so let's stop discouraging potential buyers like me. I am sure nobody likes hearing that what they are going to buy is going to be totally outdated, overpriced, or even worse, discontinued.

I may buy the 13" mbp and there is a good chance apple will screw up and the 13" will be outdated and overpriced. Hell, it's outdated and overpriced now. Paying 1k+ for a laptop with old tech is retarded. I really hope they impress with the 13", I want it to be my first mac.

 

[gonnabuyamacbsh]

I may buy the 13" mbp and there is a good chance apple will screw up and the 13" will be outdated and overpriced. Hell, it's outdated and overpriced now. Paying 1k+ for a laptop with old tech is retarded. I really hope they impress with the 13", I want it to be my first mac.

I plan on buying a 13" mbp as my first mac too. if Apple doesn't make it worth it I'll look into the hp envy line. maybe they'll put sandy bridge on their 14" laptop and fix the issues they have with the current one

damn you apple, I'm really counting on you!

 

[Yebubbleman]

I plan on buying a 13" mbp as my first mac too. if Apple doesn't make it worth it I'll look into the hp envy line. maybe they'll put sandy bridge on their 14" laptop and fix the issues they have with the current one

damn you apple, I'm really counting on you!

Relax, they wouldn't nix either the white MacBook nor the 13" Pro without a decent argument as to why what is in its place is just as good (if that makes sense, sorry for the odd sentence construction).

But then again, what you are hearing are just rumours. I am quite sure that the new 13" MBP won't be as sheety as some people are expecting it to be, cause really, some people seem to be doing their best to slate the 13" MBP.
In my opinion, not only is it the most portable macbook pro, but also the most affordable for students (obviously) and therefore, one of the most populars. If Apple does anything to it, it will surely be an improvement, so let's stop discouraging potential buyers like me. I am sure nobody likes hearing that what they are going to buy is going to be totally outdated, overpriced, or even worse, discontinued.

If they dropped the Pro moniker and kept the machine otherwise the same, would it suck any more than it does now?

 

[fpnc]

...Otherwise, the desktop counterpart to Arrandale used one motherboard socket while the Sandy Bridge desktop boards use another. Who's to say that it won't be a different connection requirement that will also mandate a (albeit, slight) redesign to the logic board?

Yes, the mobile versions of the Arrandale and Sandy Bridge do uses slightly different sockets, since the Sandy Bridge package is notable smaller. However, if that's a real obstacle for Apple or anyone else then I guess the next revisions of the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros won't switch to use Sandy Bridge. Besides that I said "a near "drop in"" which isn't the same as saying an exact or direct drop in.

 

[reneesees]

Well now I am in a huge quandry! I have been reading this thread for the past hour and not sure what to do! Need some pro advice from you guys.

I was hours away from pulling the trigger on a MBP 15" when I saw the rumors board last night.

Not in a true "hurry" so to speak but have a new photography class starting this week and wanted a new computer to correspond.

I want the dirty truth: should I wait?

 

[fpnc]

...I want the dirty truth: should I wait?

It all depends upon whether you can wait for another month to find out. The mobile, dual-core versions of the Sandy Bridge CPU aren't expected to ship until Feb. 20, 2011 (according to Intel).

 

[Eidorian]

It all depends upon whether you can wait for another month to find out. The mobile, dual-core versions of the Sandy Bridge CPU aren't expected to ship until Feb. 20, 2011 (according to Intel).

The quad more machines aren't that much more expensive. You just get more battery life with the dual core.