MacBook Pros in High Demand, Increased Mac Market Share?

[peharri]

I agree that dual-booting isn't as good as some type of compatibilty layer... but only if that compatiblity layer is a lot better than classic, because, frankly, classic sucks.

If someone can give me a compatibilty layer with 100% functionality and 90%-100% speed... plus 100% native video card support... I'll jump on it in a second. But if they think they can get away with emulating the video card like VPC does now... I'm just going to dual boot.

There is one reason, I want Windows on my Mac: to play my Windows games. If some fancy compatablity layer can't give me virually native performance, than forget it.

At this stage, the only compatability layer that exists is Darwine, and it's not considered ready for prime-time yet. Even if it was, it's a port of Wine, and relies heavily upon X11. You'll get native performance for some apps, but playing Windows games will be more hit and miss. Anything that requires DirectX, for example, is probably going to be substantially slower than it would be under Windows.

 

[windmaomao]

Ahem

After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

Apple has no objection whatsoever to people running Windows on their Macs, so unless we're to interpret your comment as merely being against dual booting, that is, the concept of having multiple operating systems installed on the same hard drive (and I'll be interested in hearing your logic), I don't think the signs suggest Jobs would object at all.

oh come on, you still believe that ? that was too old to mention, read some latest news.

 

[tzookster]

Let`s face it..

Once you get a taste of that OS X goodness, why would you even want to dual-boot into Windows?

-- In a while, Windows be reduced to a widget on your dock or wherever you will like to keep it. For Posthumous nostalgic irony or Powerpoint.

--A while later, all the MacPC users will be ditching OSX for the OS explosion from the East. Sony & Samsung turning OSX into a widget you can hang on your fridge. For Posthumous nostalgic irony or Windows widgets.

--Meanwhile forgetting what your computer looks like when you wake up. You ask for the curtains to open & let in the light. The curtains open & feed the room with light, the window has a little opaque Apple logo in the corner.

 

[CaptainCaveMann]

Why would you want to run windows on a mac? Isnt that the whole point of switching? To get away from windows. People are totally missing the point of owning a mac in the first place. 🙄

 

[peharri]

oh come on, you still believe that ? that was too old to mention, read some latest news.

Yes I do still believe it. There's no reason to believe that Apple's position has changed. If that was their policy nine months ago, it's hard to see what's different today that would have meant they'd do a 180.

I seriously doubt you can point at a single authoritative article that implies Apple has a single problem with people running Windows on their Macs.

 

[Krevnik]

But I think Apple does have a trump card that gets them out of these traps. Yellow box. Get developers to write "Mac applications" that also happen to work on Windows. Get 100% of the market with one application build. It also capitalizes on MS's relative complacence in the compiler market as of late, if Apple can offer superior development tools.

This /may/ be true... especially for those who might be interested in the growth that Apple is achieving. However, .NET has a lot of force behind it right now, and allows you to hit mobile devices, and the desktop. I would say that it would be difficult if they went head-to-head with .NET. The thing is, XCode still has growth ahead of it, while VS is a mature product. So in the end, I don't see Apple swaying over many developers who weren't already interested in multi-platform development with Yellow Box. So it might just wind up negating the trap.

 

[Krevnik]

oh come on, you still believe that ? that was too old to mention, read some latest news.

If you understood the latest news... it isn't Apple trying to make it impossible, it is Apple supporting what they need to run OS X, without going out of their way to ensure it works with Windows.

The problems booting Vista are actually a mixture of Apple's EFI not having support for booting from UDF CD/DVD discs, and Vista being incapable of fully booting on 32-bit EFI at the moment.

 

[brepublican]

Ahem

After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

Apple has no objection whatsoever to people running Windows on their Macs, so unless we're to interpret your comment as merely being against dual booting, that is, the concept of having multiple operating systems installed on the same hard drive (and I'll be interested in hearing your logic), I don't think the signs suggest Jobs would object at all.

I just clarified that. There is a HUGE difference between merely running Windows on the new x86 Intel Macs and dual booting. And its not going to happen.

 

[Craigy]

I'm using an application called Q to emulate windows 2000 as we speak.

I've been trying to get win2k to run on Q for ages, both on my G5 and MacBook Pro - got it to install but can't get win2k service packs or SQL server enterprise manager to install (my ultimate aim). Guess I'm going to have to wait for VPC8!

My MacBook Pro runs warm / hot too. but it was -5 here yesterday and it kept me toasty!

 

[miketcool]

Breakfast!

I've got some eggs here. the powerbook is in the car. i was going to make an omelet on my way home

I have noticed my PowerBook casing being curiously nonstick...

 

[jdechko]

It's good to see the Mac doing so well. I just hope that they're in good supply when I'm finally able to buy one. Until then... 🙁

 

[bigandy]

Seriously, why run Windows on a Mac?

Because some people HAVE to run Windows. And if you're going to run it on something, having one box to use Windows AND MacOS, a Mac is one helluva lot better than a grey/black/red/green/chunder coloured PC.

read the thread, and you'll see the same answer, 25 or more times. 🙄

 

[ScottB]

I don't have an opinion on the amount of people buying mac hardware, but more people running OSX is an issue for me. I see increasing market share as a threat to my security as it will make me more of a target to malware.

 

[mark88]

I just clarified that. There is a HUGE difference between merely running Windows on the new x86 Intel Macs and dual booting. And its not going to happen.

You said

"Dual booting wont be possible on Intel Macs. Not now, not ever."

then you said

"I meant officially sanctioned by Apple Computers Inc. Never..."

and now the above.

The fact is you will be able to boot Windows at some point. You will be able to run Windows within Virtual PC inside OSX. You will be able to run Windows apps from within OS X via a WINE port etc. As has been proven already.

Keep saying "it will never happen" till your blue in the face.

 

[CaptainCaveMann]

Because some people HAVE to run Windows. And if you're going to run it on something, having one box to use Windows AND MacOS, a Mac is one helluva lot better than a grey/black/red/green/chunder coloured PC.

read the thread, and you'll see the same answer, 25 or more times. 🙄

So lets hear why you HAVE to run windows?

 

[mark88]

Can we set some sort of rule that whenever there is a discussion on running Windows on Intels Mac, or running Windows apps on OS X that people who just don't understand why you would want to do such a thing just NOT POST?

It has been explaimed a million times why people would want to do it, so why keep asking the same question over and over?

 

[CaptainCaveMann]

Can we set some sort of rule that whenever there is a discussion on running Windows on Intels Mac, or running Windows apps on OS X that people who just don't understand why you would want to do such a thing just NOT POST?

It has been explaimed a million times why people would want to do it, so why keep asking the same question over and over?

Im not asking why people would want to do it. Im asking why do you HAVE to do it. Thats what was said. 🙄

 

[brepublican]

Keep saying "it will never happen" till your blue in the face.

I dont understand how my argument is not clear. Apparently you can run Windows on an x86 Mac. Not the same as dual booting. To the best of my knowledge, you cant. And you wont ever be able to.

It has been explaimed a million times why people would want to do it, so why keep asking the same question over and over?

Because as we have said, the reasons being given are total BS. All bogus. Yeah you need to use Windows every single day. As does almost every other mac user. So? Buy a PC. You've lived so far, you'll be fine. Gosh.

 

[Stella]

Your deluding yourself.

If OSX could run windows apps, then there is no incentive for a native OSX version.

Economics.

This is so totally wrong. The only reason OS/2 lasted as long as it did was because it could run Windows. Nobody was buying OS/2 for OS/2 they bought it because it was a better Windows. If it didn't have that going for it, it's market share would have been even worse.

Apple is not in the same position. They already have a large (fanatical) user base, the big companies have already made the investment to support the platform.

If the Macs could dual boot, or at least run windows very well via VPC or something similar, I believe it will increase Mac development. If Apple can build a machine that runs windows, linux, and osx, it will be irresistable to developers and will become the machine of choice.

In my small little market, the Macs are considered second class citizens because of the smaller market share. As a small developer investing in that second platform is very expensive. I've actually made quite a bit of money off my competitors by porting their stuff to the Mac and taking a cut because I did invest the time and money. If the incremental cost was only a Windows license to set up dual booting on your Mac that drops the price radically.

I suspect it's only a matter of time before XP or Vista is up and running on a Mac, but I really think Apple did a stupid thing by making it as hard as it is. Personally my replacement cycle for laptops is about up. I will be ordering a new laptop in the next 4-6 weeks. If the MBP was dual booting Windows, it would have been one, but it looks like it won't be so I'm going for the similar Acer and buying the cheapest mini I can get to support my Mactel customers.

 

[plinden]

What I would like to see is a WINE/VPC like app that would run at near native speeds. That way we get the apps without having to actually dual boot windows.

Like this? That's what I would like to see for my iMac, not necessarily for Windows, but I'd like a virualized Linux install. Although I have some older games that I can't play now (Civ's I - III, Sim City 4 and MOHAA)

 

[StoneWolf]

So lets hear why you HAVE to run windows?

Some of my university classes require that you use Visual Studio in some of your programming assignments. Students would rather buy 1 computer instead of 2.

Just to reiterate what this survey said: Most of my friends are considering buying a new laptop within the next year or so. Of those friends, ALL of them are leaning towards Apple. Heck, less than a year ago I got a Thinkpad and now I want an Apple laptop.

 

[mark88]

I dont understand how my argument is not clear. Apparently you can run Windows on an x86 Mac. Not the same as dual booting. To the best of my knowledge, you cant. And you wont ever be able to.

You need to explain yourself, How is having a dual boot of OSX and Windows not the same as running Windows on an Intel Mac?

Honestly, you make no sense at all...

 

[brepublican]

Your deluding yourself.

If OSX could run windows apps, then there is no incentive for a native OSX version.

Economics.

Exactly. Dual booting would almost certainly spell the end for the Mac OS, since software makers would only issue Windows versions. It seems people who are advocating dual booting would just love to see this happen.

 

[maxterpiece]

DESPITE the HUGE notice on the front of the packet saying "SMOKING CAUSES CANCER", "SMOKING KILLS" or something similar.

only in america. 🙄

Actually in the US cigarette packs don't have the same warning as in the UK. The warning is wordier, more oblique, smaller, and less visible on the pack (it's on the side of the box).

The warnings say different things, but one example is "SURGEON GENERAL’S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health."

It's way less scary.

 

[mark88]

Because as we have said, the reasons being given are total BS. All bogus.

Im not asking why people would want to do it. Im asking why do you HAVE to do it. Thats what was said. 🙄

OK, how's a real world example.

I have to use a program called VirtualDub on Windows. It allows me to browse through Video via keyframes, taking captures to the clipboard whever I choose to, it's extremely fast and simple. There is no such program on the mac, if there is I haven't found one.

Because I use this program alot(for work, I work from home) it therefore means I use my XP computer more than my Mac. Doing this means alot of my emails, my music, my web browsing etc etc is also done on this machine, simply because I'm sat infront of it more!

Why do I want to run this application on Mac? Because I can then do all my fun stuff in OS X and simply use the Windows App when I have to, for work.

Does that answer your question?