Macbook Released

[081440]

So now that iBook has a had a slight case change, does anyone think that the PowerMac will retain it's current case, like Apple seems to have been doing for the most part.

And how about the eMac will it even make the transition?
If it does will they put an LCD in it and lead plates in the back to keep them from walking?

 

[Gatezone]

Unless you're reasonably sure you'll want to burn a DVD away from home, it's better to use an external burner. First, you'll probably get more performance. Second, you'll get more value. Third, you can get a dual-layer burner. And fourth (the main reason, for me), if your MacBook is lost or stolen, you still have your DVD burner!

For the same reasons, I'll be using an external hard drive to provide my college daughter extra with capacity.

I see your point but it is extremely handy to have that DVD burner built right into the system. My PB writer comes in handy. I hate having to carry around a bunch of external stuff, but I guess if you leave it at your home base your good. For sheer value for the buck you're absolutely right about the externals.

Same is true with hard drives. Fry's had a sale a couple weeks ago on 300Gb SATA drives for I think it was $89.00, and they had external enclosures for $19 (with fans and internal power supply). I bought a bunch of them for a server raid, and built and sold several externals.

 

[sthiede]

Mac Pro Change

So now that iBook has a had a slight case change, does anyone think that the PowerMac will retain it's current case, like Apple seems to have been doing for the most part.

And how about the eMac will it even make the transition?
If it does will they put an LCD in it and lead plates in the back to keep them from walking?

Even though the iBook went through slight changes, it would still seem logical that the intel PowerMac (Mac Pro) would mostly retain its style. No models during the intel switch have been COMPLETELY changed, but have only undergone sutble changes. I'd bet on a size change though.

 

[Gatezone]

Even though the iBook went through slight changes, it would still seem logical that the intel PowerMac (Mac Pro) would mostly retain its style. None have been COMPLETELY changed, but have only undergone sutble changes. I'd bet on a size change though.

I'm assuming you mean smaller? Yet if you want to have room for cards, drives, fans, etc. I'm not sure how much smaller you can go...? Think they'll go back to plastic again? I like the tough, heavy duty, but elegant, industrial design of the PowerMacs.

 

[sthiede]

I'm assuming you mean smaller? Yet if you want to have room for cards, drives, fans, etc. I'm not sure how much smaller you can go...? Think they'll go back to plastic again? I like the tough, heavy duty, but elegant, industrial design of the PowerMacs.

Yes i do mean smaller, but as you said, not by much. The PowerMac is not a consumer machine and size isn't really an issue. I also agree about the design, i just love the current look of the PowerMac i hope it stays the same. Its simple, rugged, yet sophisticated.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

These sound like modern 3D games, so they will run appallingly badly on the current MacBooks. Ignore anyone who says otherwise, because they have no idea what they're talking about.

If you're willing to put up with 10-20fps at 800x600, then yeah maybe you'll scrape by. If that's not acceptable, then you'll need to get a MacBook Pro or wait for a revision to the MacBook which actually has a decent graphics card.

Thats not nessicarily true. I play Call of Duty 1, Medal of Honor, other games that are 2-3 years old, on my 4 year old 1.6ghz athlon, 256mb ram, 32mb nvidia integrated graphics at 1024x768 at around 30fps. As long as the games you play arent killer graphic wise or are a few years old you should be fine. Ill prolly buy COD, Medal of Honor or something not to graphics intensive for my Macbook when I get it, just to have something to play on the go.

 

[dejo]

That's interesting, can you say a little more about the 11 year dividend gap? Is that in any way typical?

Well, I don't know a whole lot behind the why Apple doesn't pay dividends. I don't think many people do. On the Apple site, in the Investor Relations FAQ, it clearly states: "Apple does not currently pay dividends on its common stock. Apple paid dividends from June 15, 1987 to December 15, 1995." [Last time was when Michael Spindler was CEO.] And recently, at Apple's last shareholder's meeting (April 27, 2006), when Steve Jobs was asked about Apple's long-standing policy of not paying dividends to shareholders, he replied "You've got it right," and added they have no plans to change that policy. [Linky]

Is this typical? Not really. Is it unusual? Not that either. Plenty of companies don't pay dividends.

 

[PaulinMaryland]

Now, the good news is that AMAZON is now stocking and the REBATE program there is alive and kicking, so sub 1K$ for the MBP is GREAT news.

Will Amazon hit me up for my state sales tax, the way The Apple Store will? Will the online retailers like MacMall? My daughter's university will give only a 5 percent discount, which comes to zero after Maryland sales tax. I'm getting the feeling I can do better on Amazon.

 

[deadpoet]

I'll say again, compared to the GFX chip in the 12" PB, the GMA 950 is an *upgrade*. I won't argue that it may be a downgrade compared to what's in the iBook *for 3D* (it certainly beats the 9550 for 2D stuff and video).

Well of course it's an upgrade, the 12" PB is over a year old (at the minimum) -- it's ancient technology! These comparisons are getting quite delirious...

It's getting a little tiring to see people go "OMG shut yer whining, new Intel MacBooks 0wnz old G4 Powerbooks and iBooks, Apple is God etc etc".

Don't get me wrong, GMA950 is fine for a mid-range consumer lappy, but frankly it's annoying that people are trying to pass off the MacBook as adequate for playing modern 3D games, it clearly isn't. And neither is the current MacBook a worthy replacement for the old 12" Powerbook, but I suspect Apple will remedy this eventually, perhaps in the next revision.

 

[poppe]

Originally Posted by PaulinMaryland
Unless you're reasonably sure you'll want to burn a DVD away from home, it's better to use an external burner. First, you'll probably get more performance. Second, you'll get more value. Third, you can get a dual-layer burner. And fourth (the main reason, for me), if your MacBook is lost or stolen, you still have your DVD burner!

For the same reasons, I'll be using an external hard drive to provide my college daughter extra with capacity.

Oh I completly understand that. I'm more interested in this for my Mother. The only desire she has is to be able to use iMovie and to burn the home movies she made in iMovie. She could care less what GPU it has. She loves the Macbook, but doesn't really want to drop 1300 for the middle MB.

And external burner isn't the greatest for her becuase she is into all in one simple use. No strings attached. Let her check email and send pics right in bed. If that makes any sense.

So that is why I say it is sad you can not upgrade the first MB with a superdrive.

That is why I posted the question "is the superdrive really $200 more" because she doesn't want a super fast gaming machine or a superfast whatever.

She won't know the difference from her pentium III processor. She just wanted a cheap comp to sit in bed burning home videos (redundant)...

 

[Gatezone]

..... Is this typical? Not really. Is it unusual? Not that either. Plenty of companies don't pay dividends.

Thanks for the info. I undertand that it can go either way. With so many things "Apple" it is the way it is. I can see Jobs answering any number of questions the same way, "You go that right...that's the way it is."

 

[Gatezone]

Stop trying to force consumers or professionals to buy limited systems

Oh I completly understand that. I'm more interested in this for my Mother. The only desire she has is to be able to use iMovie and to burn the home movies she made in iMovie. She could care less what GPU it has. She loves the Macbook, but doesn't really want to drop 1300 for the middle MB...

Perfect example. Can we say "build to order" within the small, medium, and large sizes? I'll just say it one more time today... Apple needs to stop trying to make systems for specific audiences because they don't exist anymore. An older person who wants to use a small computer in bed and burn dvd's is what type of audience? Just give the lady what she wants and don't force her to get what she doesn't want. What if someone wants a small system to play kick a** games on? Apple's deciding what to do on which size system? Stupid, dumb, crazy and very old fashioned marketing thinking.

Yea they'll get away with it once or twice more but it's gotta go. Build to order so you can get what you want and don't bother with all the stupid slight dead-end variations of the same basic system.

 

[poppe]

I understand Apple's point of not having so many options that they would never ever be able to have an assembly line and what not, but still...
Once my mom heard she'd have to drop 1300 for a laptop with a burner, that doesn't include Applecare yet she no longer thought it was a great idea...

If microsoft comes out with a better and simpler movie editing software than MovieMaker... I'm quite afraid she'll turn to a $600 Dell becuase it is average in all the areas she doesn't care about like processor and excells in two points Prices and burner.

Note: I don't acctually know if there is a Dell that price that has a burner so do not lash out at me. I'm to lazy to go looking for one just to show hey this is what she'll buy.

 

[macmama33]

powerbook vs. macbook

*for travel, to write, use internet (needs to be extremely portable/light), use some design programs, store lots of music
*budget - less is better- $1200
*i do believe

It will always come down to the same questions:

• What do you want to do with it?
• What is your budget?
• Are you a true believer?
• ;-)

 

[matticus008]

Geez, Apple, give us more build to order options - like Dell does! We'll pay you the profits!

Therein lies the problem. Apple can't do what Dell does. They don't have the supply chain and they don't have the cash flow to support that. More options=more, smaller orders on parts=more complexity=much higher prices. They can't pick up the 5% of whiners who can't find a Mac that fits their needs without punishing the other customers. So unless you're willing to pay a hefty premium on what are already not-inexpensive computers, that will never work.

Exactly... Apple knows how to do this but they won't and it goes beyond profits to some old school product line mind set that they are stuck in. I keep expecting them to break out of it but instead they do this bizarre Macbook and Pro split.

What bizarre split? You keep talking about it, but aside from the name, where's the difference? It's not that they have "some old school product line mindset"--it's that they're not a bulk-order heavyweight like Dell. When you switch to a smaller company, you have to give up some of that flexibility in order to stay afloat. They're fully aware of the Dell business model, and it doesn't work for them, so why ask them to use it? Every configuration option is a tremendous weight for Apple, since they have to provide end-to-end support for it. If you want Dell's flexibility, buy a freaking Dell. Even they didn't get to where they are by overstretching their capabilities.

 

[poppe]

I think you are missing the point matticus008. Dell might get a "hefty bulk" price, but what they also do for their lower end stuff is say hey to add anything its extra. Bluetooth, WiFi, whatever. I personaly love the idea of not having to say to apple Hey please add wifi and bluetooth, but for a person looking for a bare minumum emailing laptop I wish they offered such a thing.

My mom doesn't even know what Bluetooth is let alone to use it. Don't get me wrong there are way more people that would find bluetooth useful than find it not, but for lower end to keep price down it'd be nice. Thats all

Please understand that I love Apple and will easily pay the premium and my mom loves Apple and wants to, but can't afford to.

All I was saying is that if there was the possibility to drop some things so she could have a Laptop with a Burner at 999/1099 she'd be buying ASAP.

 

[MacVault]

Therein lies the problem. Apple can't do what Dell does. They don't have the supply chain and they don't have the cash flow to support that. More options=more, smaller orders on parts=more complexity=much higher prices. They can't pick up the 5% of whiners who can't find a Mac that fits their needs without punishing the other customers. So unless you're willing to pay a hefty premium on what are already not-inexpensive computers, that will never work.

What bizarre split? You keep talking about it, but aside from the name, where's the difference? It's not that they have "some old school product line mindset"--it's that they're not a bulk-order heavyweight like Dell. When you switch to a smaller company, you have to give up some of that flexibility in order to stay afloat. They're fully aware of the Dell business model, and it doesn't work for them, so why ask them to use it? Every configuration option is a tremendous weight for Apple, since they have to provide end-to-end support for it. If you want Dell's flexibility, buy a freaking Dell. Even they didn't get to where they are by overstretching their capabilities.

If Dell can figure out how to give options, bto, etc, Apple certainly can too. Don't tell me Apple is a "small" company with low cash flow. That's BS. What's the difference between the option of a super drive or the option of a better video card???

 

[celebrian23]

I do understand the superdrive complaint. Not so much the others, but I think in this day and age, a superdrive is almost a must or an external burner., however, it just isn't right for some people. I'd be a lot more likely to get a macbook if the low end model came with a superdrive option. If you're going to be a dorm student like me, you need all the space you can get. I think it's become such a basic need that it should be an option.

 

[poppe]

Originalyly Posted by celebrian23
I do understand the superdrive complaint. Not so much the others, but I think in this day and age, a superdrive is almost a must or an external burner., however, it just isn't right for some people. I'd be a lot more likely to get a macbook if the low end model came with a superdrive option. If you're going to be a dorm student like me, you need all the space you can get. I think it's become such a basic need that it should be an option.

Exactly. Amen. Imagine having this amazing suite iLife and not being able burn movies of all your good times at college unless your drop 1300+

 

[matticus008]

I think you are missing the point matticus008. Dell might get a "hefty bulk" price, but what they also do for their lower end stuff is say hey to add anything its extra. Bluetooth, WiFi, whatever. I personaly love the idea of not having to say to apple Hey please add wifi and bluetooth, but for a person looking for a bare minumum emailing laptop I wish they offered such a thing.

That is exactly the point. To offer those options, they would have to have some logic boards with and without all these various options, all of which they would have to make orders for, reducing the size of each part order, driving up the price. So offering a wireless-free computer ends up costing more to Apple than just sticking to their existing lines. I agree that they don't offer a true low-end computer, but that's their prerogative. They'd rather sell full-featured computers at competitive prices. For someone who wants the bare basics, Apple just isn't for them.

If Dell can figure out how to give options, bto, etc, Apple certainly can too. Don't tell me Apple is a "small" company with low cash flow. That's BS. What's the difference between the option of a super drive or the option of a better video card???

Apple is a much lower volume company than Dell. They are profitable and have a great deal of money in the bank, but Apple is more than Macintosh computers--their software products cost more money than software sales bring in and half of the company is iPod-based. So if you look at their bottom line figures and divide it in half, that is the amount of money which funds both OS X and Mac development. Compare that to the cash flow of Dell and Microsoft, and Apple is a relative lightweight.

The difference, by the way, between a superdrive option and a video card option on the MacBook is that one of them requires a complete redesign of the entire computer and the other does not. Swapping out a modular part like a keyboard or the display or a drive is not even remotely comparable to changing the graphics arrangement.

 

[poppe]

Integrated Graphics

I used to believe I was going to get a Win Laptop and then just fork over a G5 instead of getting a MBP, but I could never find a $1500 or less Win Laptop made by ANYONE who didn't have an integrated GPU. I really hate when people act like Apple is the first one to do this. I understand 64 mb blows huge ones, but I think I only ended up finding one Win Laptop with a 128 GPU with out goving over 2 grand.

Just rambling food for thought

 

[Gatezone]

What bizarre split? You keep talking about it, but aside from the name, where's the difference? It's not that they have "some old school product line mindset"--it's that they're not a bulk-order heavyweight like Dell. When you switch to a smaller company, you have to give up some of that flexibility in order to stay afloat. They're fully aware of the Dell business model, and it doesn't work for them, so why ask them to use it? Every configuration option is a tremendous weight for Apple, since they have to provide end-to-end support for it. If you want Dell's flexibility, buy a freaking Dell. Even they didn't get to where they are by overstretching their capabilities.

What you are saying doesn't completely track for me. I see the split as: Apple decides to produce several metal case 15 inch laptops and several 13 inch plastic case laptops and say that the plastic case laptops are for consumers or low end users and the metal case ones are for professionals. That is a split that is, for me, bizarre. I don't see that this distinction puts any more money into their pockets. All I'm saying is have one case for god's sake make it the toughest material imaginable and put it on all of them and focus on scaling the options so that the entry level system is scaled down and the top level system can be fully loaded according to what the user wants. This approach has size being the only difference in manufacturing and there are a lot of components that can be shared even between different size laptops.

I don't think it requires quite the same on-demand build to order machine that Dell has, but it's options that can be priced according to whatever the market will bear. Over-rated Blue-tooth? Sock it to the buyer Hot graphics module - pay a premium and give it to them on the smaller system. How is this going to cut into Apple's profit? Simplify the product line and provide options that means the market and audience can determine it's own level and price points. Scale the price according to all the normal business costs that are already part of the formula.

What is the rationale for the dead-end (yes it's an over dramatic statement)Macbook that forces users who wants a small form factor to have to live with integrated graphics? While this keeps the cost low for those who don't care it artifically declares that no one wants a small Mac with good/better graphic capabilities.

While they can't scale at Dell's level they could order more units of the 'generic' level and do the final configuratioin themselves and they might save enough (and actually not run out) with their larger orders of the generic form factor systems than smaller orders guessing at how many people will say screw it I'll buy a small system and give up the graphics. They wouldn't have to guess and could order more.

Does that help clarify at all?

 

[rhsgolfer33]

Exactly. Amen. Imagine having this amazing suite iLife and not being able burn movies of all your good times at college unless your drop 1300+

The midline MB for a college student is actually only $1199, so its a pretty good deal, its $150 more than the lowest end version. Id pay $150 for the superdrive and extra processing power. Itll actually most likely be my college computer, gonna get the midline one with 1gig(or I might just buy 2 gigs online), 80gb hd, mini dvi to vga adapter, apple care, and a mighty mouse for $1534. Then all i need is a case, speakers, and an mini dvi/dvi to hdmi adapter for my hdtv and im set.

If youve got the money for a decent video camera in college youve likely got enough to pay the extra $150 for a superdrive.

 

[Gatezone]

I used to believe I was going to get a Win Laptop and then just fork over a G5 instead of getting a MBP, but I could never find a $1500 or less Win Laptop made by ANYONE who didn't have an integrated GPU. I really hate when people act like Apple is the first one to do this. I understand 64 mb blows huge ones, but I think I only ended up finding one Win Laptop with a 128 GPU with out goving over 2 grand.

Just rambling food for thought

It is a good point. As others have said heat may be an issue that keeps everyone from going this route as a routine configuration. The company that offers the choice stands out in this rat race.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

I used to believe I was going to get a Win Laptop and then just fork over a G5 instead of getting a MBP, but I could never find a $1500 or less Win Laptop made by ANYONE who didn't have an integrated GPU. I really hate when people act like Apple is the first one to do this. I understand 64 mb blows huge ones, but I think I only ended up finding one Win Laptop with a 128 GPU with out goving over 2 grand.

Just rambling food for thought

Exactly!!! The only 13.3 inch win laptops i could fine with a core duo, similar options to the mb, and dedicated graphics were all in the $1800-$2000 range. The sony SZ line has a nvidia 7400 in it, but its also damn expensive, same with the new acer laptop that is fairly similary speced to the mb. Apple MB is very competitively priced compared to pc laptops with similar options. If you want dedicated go else where or buy a MB and an Xbox.