Macbook Update in progress (2.4Ghz)

[blackpond]

What does software matter when the hardware is generations behind the competition?

I beg to differ - what is hardware without software? Useless.

I'm not bashing Microsoft when I say that, either. Microsoft is a software company after all - who made their power play long ago when they realized software is everything.

So does OSX matter? Does iLife matter? You better believe they do. To say otherwise is utterly idiotic.

 

[reezer]

All you have to do is look

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115726 $599

If you want to pay Apple-like prices http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114804 True quad core, 16:9, 6GB of RAM.

It's also hard to justify the $999 MacBook when you can get this for $200 less: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115732 Core i5, dedicated GPU.

It's not all about the hardware, but that is the easiest thing to pick on Apple about at present.

As a newbie to Mac and OS X (1.5 years) I would never consider buying anything but an Apple laptop from this moment forward. I love having a Unixish terminal with bash, python, openmpi, etc. that just works. I also love not having to jump through hoops if I need X11 or VNC or whatever when I'm ssh'd to a Linux box.

However, I would never consider buying one of their desktop solutions. It's just too expensive for what I need a desktop to do.... sit in a corner with no monitor and run C all day... and you can get the high end Quad-core CPU with 8GB DDR3 for the price of a Mini.

 

[mosx]

I beg to differ - what is hardware without software? Useless.

And what is software running on several generations old hardware? Useless.

You could have the best software in the world and it doesn't matter, if its running on hardware that isn't even half as fast as what the competition is offering.

I'm not bashing Microsoft when I say that, either. Microsoft is a software company after all - who made their power play long ago when they realized software is everything.

They also realized that driving hardware standards is important for their software as well. Hence the reason we have DirectX, DXVA which allows blu-ray playback on low-end systems, etc. Thanks to that, my 2008 aluminum MacBook can play blu-ray discs in Windows, yet Snow Leopard chokes on any 1080p h.264 file thats using a higher bitrate than Apple's movie trailers.

So does OSX matter? Does iLife matter? You better believe they do. To say otherwise is utterly idiotic.

As someone who has been using OS X since Tiger and now Snow Leopard, I'd have to say that Apple's brand name is the only thing keeping Macs selling. Snow Leopard's supposed improvements under the hood don't make up for the fact that it's bloated, buggy, and incredibly unstable. I've had it since launch and only the recent 10.6.3 update FINALLY got closed lip waking from sleep working again. It seems to me that Apple rushed Snow Leopard out in an attempt to be able to say "hey! look! we have a new OS too!"

iPhoto is the only iLife app that gets any real use from your average Mac user.

 

[Black Macbook]

Whenever there is any new Apple product release, hordes of whiners emerge from their dark, little, musty caves and do what they do best, whine!

The new white Macbook doesn't have USB 3, boohoohoo, I must have USB 3 or my life is not complete, even though I don't personally own any USB 3 devices!

The new white Macbook doesn't have Blu-ray, boohoohoo! Based on their past history as a company, I was totally expecting Apple to put Blu-ray in their cheapest laptop and now I am totally crushed!

The new white Macbook is only slightly cheaper than the MBP 13" now, boohoohoo, now I'm all confused and don't know which one to get!

The new white Macbook costs $100 more in my country, boohoohoo, because my country's currency has been sliding downhill for the entire year now! Why is Apple so mean? And why don't they release the exact machine that I have been waiting for with the exact specs that I demand at the exact price that I determine? Boohoohoo.

 

[mosx]

It's not all about the hardware, but that is the easiest thing to pick on Apple about at present.

Software is important too. Windows 7 is well ahead of OS X in many ways. Especially in the "fun" department.

As a newbie to Mac and OS X (1.5 years) I would never consider buying anything but an Apple laptop from this moment forward. I love having a Unixish terminal with bash, python, openmpi, etc. that just works. I also love not having to jump through hoops if I need X11 or VNC or whatever when I'm ssh'd to a Linux box.

Good for you. I've been using a Mac for a little over 3 years. I will buy a new computer at some point this year. Theres no way I would consider any Apple computer at this point. Why? The prices are outrageous. Why should I buy a $2,200 system that isn't a good as a $1,000 PC? Why should I buy a $1,000 13" system that isn't as good as an $800 15" PC?

Not to mention the fact that, again, Windows 7 has left Snow Leopard in the dust. Especially when taking system stability into account.

 

[reezer]

Whenever there is any new Apple product release, hordes of whiners emerge from their dark, little, musty caves and do what they do best, whine!

The new white Macbook doesn't have USB 3, boohoohoo, I must have USB 3 or my life is not complete, even though I don't personally own any USB 3 devices!

The new white Macbook doesn't have Blu-ray, boohoohoo! Based on their past history as a company, I was totally expecting Apple to put Blu-ray in their cheapest laptop and now I am totally crushed!

The new white Macbook is only slightly cheaper than the MBP 13" now, boohoohoo, now I'm all confused and don't know which one to get!

The new white Macbook costs $100 more in my country, boohoohoo, because my country's currency has been sliding downhill for the entire year now! Why is Apple so mean? And why don't they release the exact machine that I have been waiting for with the exact specs that I demand at the exact price that I determine? Boohoohoo.

Excellent summary. You've hit almost every MacBook update relevant post. Golf clap

 

[Maserati7200]

+1 i bought the MB in 2006 and specs remain similar only that time 2.0GHz was high end processor if I remember correctly.

2GB RAM not so nice apple, do not be greedy and why there is a limit of 4GB?

They advertise a limit of 4GB, but in reality you could install up to 8GB. The MB uses the same chipset and processor as the 13" MBP.

 

[kernkraft]

I beg to differ - what is hardware without software? Useless.

I'm not bashing Microsoft when I say that, either. Microsoft is a software company after all - who made their power play long ago when they realized software is everything.

So does OSX matter? Does iLife matter? You better believe they do. To say otherwise is utterly idiotic.

1. Actually, software can be easily modified, upgraded and replaced. One day you might upgrade to Snow Leopard and half your applications crash for a while - but that can be fixed with an upgrade or two. Try watching Blu Ray on your Macs - there is no solution for it. It's the same with the glossy screen on my MBPs, the lack of Firewire on a previous MB of mine and it's the same with my faulty graphics in the 15" unibody MBP. If you have hardware limitations, no software will fix that.

2. OSX matters for us, who use it. iLife?! You have to be kidding. I'm sure that some people have great fun creating their home movies, calendars and bloated iWeb pages on their Macs, but some of us NEVER use iLife. In fact, I'd pay Apple not to upload any of that junk on my iPhone and Macs. It takes ages to free your devices from their dependency to Apple bloatware. So to your point, I think arguing about the importance of iLife is idiotic, as you would say. My software list includes Pixelmator, Path Finder, X Folders, RapidWeaver, Skype, CSS Edit - most of them have decent Windows counterparts and none of them originate from Apple. The only software that I really want to use from them is Automator, but that bunch of teen 'Genius' in my local Apple Store don't know anything about it - they can only create playlists on iTunes and Podcasts on Garage Band, it seems. Well I'm sorry, but my life is not like a commercial and I haven't got anything to share in a podcast.

 

[reezer]

Software is important too. Windows 7 is well ahead of OS X in many ways. Especially in the "fun" department.



Good for you. I've been using a Mac for a little over 3 years. I will buy a new computer at some point this year. Theres no way I would consider any Apple computer at this point. Why? The prices are outrageous. Why should I buy a $2,200 system that isn't a good as a $1,000 PC? Why should I buy a $1,000 13" system that isn't as good as an $800 15" PC?

Not to mention the fact that, again, Windows 7 has left Snow Leopard in the dust. Especially when taking system stability into account.

I recently upgraded my wife's Dell with a 7200rpm WD HDD and put Windows 7 home on it. It works well for her using Office, Firefox, iTunes, etc., but it doesn't have a lot of the features that some of us need. I will give MS kudos, because that same laptop was awful with Vista and now is snappier than it was straight out of the box.

Personally, I need my laptop for work......and to do so I need a familiar Unix/Linux terminal, bash script capabilities, gnuplot, LaTeX, MPI compatible GNU compilers, and X11 that doesn't suck. I haven't had any issues with Leopard or Snow Leopard that were critical. I've fixed a few things via the helpful members of the Apple Discussion boards.

Everyone has their own needs.

 

[FinderUser213]

And what is software running on several generations old hardware? Useless.

You could have the best software in the world and it doesn't matter, if its running on hardware that isn't even half as fast as what the competition is offering.



They also realized that driving hardware standards is important for their software as well. Hence the reason we have DirectX, DXVA which allows blu-ray playback on low-end systems, etc. Thanks to that, my 2008 aluminum MacBook can play blu-ray discs in Windows, yet Snow Leopard chokes on any 1080p h.264 file thats using a higher bitrate than Apple's movie trailers.



As someone who has been using OS X since Tiger and now Snow Leopard, I'd have to say that Apple's brand name is the only thing keeping Macs selling. Snow Leopard's supposed improvements under the hood don't make up for the fact that it's bloated, buggy, and incredibly unstable. I've had it since launch and only the recent 10.6.3 update FINALLY got closed lip waking from sleep working again. It seems to me that Apple rushed Snow Leopard out in an attempt to be able to say "hey! look! we have a new OS too!"

iPhoto is the only iLife app that gets any real use from your average Mac user.

This post is absolute bogus.

Almost every point you made is wrong.

First off, I have very new software (think linux) running on very old hardware, and it screams. Software is equally, if not more important than hardware. To go so far as to say that it is "useless" is absolutely ridiculous.

As for your second statement, I can't argue with you as I don't own that model, but I do have a 2008 iMac running Snow Leopard. It excels at running any h.264 1080p video, using any bitrate i've tested. To extrapolate your own personal experience working with HD video on a single model of the Mac family, and come to the consludtion that Snow Leopard "chokes" is ridiculous.

Your third statement is worse than the previous two. Apple's brand name, no one can argue, is a major reason why Apple sells so many computers. But to say it is the *only* thing is ridiculous. I have been using OS X since Panther, on dozens of varied Macs. I don't know about your specific issue of "closed lip waking from sleep", but I can say that Snow Leopard, with out a doubt, is the fastest, least-buggy (.3), stable, and feature rich of the OSs. Apple may have rushed SnoLeo out to steal Windows' thunder, but that doesn't make it any less of a significant update than Windows Vista>7. Perhaps you need to read up on it a little more.

And, finally, your last statement. Far and away the stupidest and most ignorant. MANY MANY people use iMovie, iWeb (not so much as the others), and especially Garage band. Normal people. I think your negative experience with Macs has given you a wholly inaccurate fallacious view on what is actually behind the Mac.

 

[boncellis]

Whenever there is any new Apple product release, hordes of whiners emerge from their dark, little, musty caves and do what they do best, whine!

The new white Macbook doesn't have USB 3, boohoohoo, I must have USB 3 or my life is not complete, even though I don't personally own any USB 3 devices!

The new white Macbook doesn't have Blu-ray, boohoohoo! Based on their past history as a company, I was totally expecting Apple to put Blu-ray in their cheapest laptop and now I am totally crushed!

The new white Macbook is only slightly cheaper than the MBP 13" now, boohoohoo, now I'm all confused and don't know which one to get!

The new white Macbook costs $100 more in my country, boohoohoo, because my country's currency has been sliding downhill for the entire year now! Why is Apple so mean? And why don't they release the exact machine that I have been waiting for with the exact specs that I demand at the exact price that I determine? Boohoohoo.

Solid work. You forgot about the ones who say that there isn't enough standard RAM though.

 

[kernkraft]

Depressing whining edited...

The new white Macbook doesn't have Blu-ray, boohoohoo! Based on their past history as a company, I was totally expecting Apple to put Blu-ray in their cheapest laptop and now I am totally crushed!

Stop whining at once! No Mac has Blu Ray, even as an option. We are rightly upset.

The new white Macbook costs $100 more in my country, boohoohoo, because my country's currency has been sliding downhill for the entire year now! Boohoohoo.

Actually, it's just the new MB and there is no currency that has been sliding for a whole year. The US Dollar wasn't, the Euro and Sterling were not either. This price increase is just a typical overseas Apple annoyance and there is no reason behind it other than asking as much for a new computer as they can get away with. Sometimes, most of the times they don't. Apple use in Europe is still fairly low, compared to the US, save some countries.

 

[teaneedz]

Seems to be a hit against the pro. This update and the wrong update for the pro will push me out of Apples reach which is saying something for such a fan.

 

[tkermit]

As my girlfriend stated [...]buried in the sheets "Wow, feel it - It's not even hot!"

So that's what she said, eh?

 

[blackpond]

And what is software running on several generations old hardware? Useless.

You could have the best software in the world and it doesn't matter, if its running on hardware that isn't even half as fast as what the competition is offering.

Real world example - I earn my living working on a Pentium D with 2GB of RAM. Software: Photoshop, Dreamweaver, SQL Server 2008, Windows XP SP3. Earning between $45 and $75 an hour it's hardly useless. On the flip side, if I was running a quad core whatever with 4GB of RAM and some monster GPU with notepad and Windows Paint my productivity would slow and I would earn less. So yes, Virginia, software is king.

As far as your points on OSX and iLife not holding up to Windows - you may be right. Honestly, I have yet to switch (though I plan to). My point was and still is that software makes the hardware.

Simple question: which is the better performing browser?

Internet Explorer
Firefox
Chrome
Opera
Safari

What makes it better? Is it software or hardware?

 

[maclook]

@mosx This post is absolute bogus.

Thank god you responded before me so I didn't have to waste brain power. Everything in that post is wrong wrong wrong.
"You could have the best software in the world and it doesn't matter, if its running on hardware that isn't even half as fast as what the competition is offering."
It's such a n00b mindset to think that hardware is the #1 factor.

Seems to be a hit against the pro. This update and the wrong update for the pro will push me out of Apples reach which is saying something for such a fan.

Same. I need Steve Jobs to respond to an angry email so I can understand the logic behind the 13" mb n mbp

My point was and still is that software makes the hardware.

Bingo. I don't think some people understand the advantages that Apple has from making both the hardware AND the software. No other company does this, and the one's that are trying come out with terrible software. I would rather hire an intelligent, college-educated person than a person with technically the largest brain but really isn't that smart.

 

[Craiglorocks]

And what is software running on several generations old hardware? Useless.

You could have the best software in the world and it doesn't matter, if its running on hardware that isn't even half as fast as what the competition is offering.

My Mac outperforms all my friends computers. My girlfriend bought an Acer 4 months ago(cringe) and she will be getting a Mac this summer now. Out of the box it could not touch my Mac. Understanding that I am a college student, most of the people I know are college students as well. In general, if they are buying a PC, cheap and affordable is the usual choice. Once they realize that the computer is utter junk and fails to accomplish what they need, they come to me asking about Macs and wanting to try one.

Heres an example. I had a friend that always said Macs were too expensive and a waste of money. Three months later she calls me asking to help her pick out a Mac because her PC took a dump on her. Logic Board failed 5 DAYS after the end of the warranty. Now she has a Macbook Pro. I asked her about it a few weeks ago and she said " I still think that they are overpriced, but I will not go back to a PC."

 

[Black Macbook]

This price increase is just a typical overseas Apple annoyance and there is no reason behind it other than asking as much for a new computer as they can get away with.

For the entire year of 2010, the EURO has only been going in one direction, and that direction is not up. The EURO is at it's lowest value in a long, long time. It's been years since the EURO was worth less than it is now at the moment.

Apple is a company that seeks to make profit. Apple does not run a welfare office for people with decreased economic abilities. Since the previous Macbook refresh, the EURO has declined significantly, and it is only natural and understandable that a slight price increase came with this newest Macbook refresh.

If the Euro continues to decline, then expect the next refreshes from Apple to cost even more. That's how things work.

 

[johnqh]

In fact, I'd pay Apple not to upload any of that junk on my iPhone and Macs. It takes ages to free your devices from their dependency to Apple bloatware.

Take ages? Drag the application package from the Application folder to the trash can?

 

[Eidorian]

They also realized that driving hardware standards is important for their software as well. Hence the reason we have DirectX, DXVA which allows blu-ray playback on low-end systems, etc. Thanks to that, my 2008 aluminum MacBook can play blu-ray discs in Windows, yet Snow Leopard chokes on any 1080p h.264 file thats using a higher bitrate than Apple's movie trailers.

Apple's implementation is sadly limited to nVidia hardware under VDPAU's Feature Set C. (Sucks if you have ATI or Intel GMA) They were remarkablely late to the h.264 hardware decoding after beating their chests that 2005 was the year of HD. Marketing of course is more important than implementation.

As someone who has been using OS X since Tiger and now Snow Leopard, I'd have to say that Apple's brand name is the only thing keeping Macs selling. Snow Leopard's supposed improvements under the hood don't make up for the fact that it's bloated, buggy, and incredibly unstable. I've had it since launch and only the recent 10.6.3 update FINALLY got closed lip waking from sleep working again. It seems to me that Apple rushed Snow Leopard out in an attempt to be able to say "hey! look! we have a new OS too!"

I just had my Macbook recently repaired. It was imaged back to 10.6.1 and my user data had been migrated to the new hard drive.

I immediately started having problems with my web browsers and the Open/Save dialog boxes, again. I had forgetten about these bugs until I was stuck reverted back to 10.6.1. I updated to 10.6.3 after an 800 MB download. Snow Leopard is sadly a ME TOO update to keep up with the Joneses.

At launch, Tiger didn't have any show stoppers for me and Leopard had a handful only because we waved goodbye to the NetInfo Manager.

iPhoto is the only iLife app that gets any real use from your average Mac user.

I have the same experience.

Take ages? Drag the application package from the Application folder to the trash can?

Never look in your /Library/Application Support folder.

 

[reezer]

The baseline Mac Pro has the 2.66 GHz Nehalem X5550 (retail ≈$999), 640GB HDD (≈$70), NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB (≈$85), 3x1GB DDR3 1066 ECC RAM (≈$120), Superdrive (≈$40), Mobo for the Nehalem (≈$300), PSU (≈$100), Sweet Case (≈$150) ≈ estimated $1864 if you had to build a similar machine from scratch that would not run OS X without some serious hacking involved.

So, all the people saying they can find a $1000 PC with similar specs aren't looking at the same parts as what is in the Mac Pro.

It does need and update, specifically in the GPU department, but it is by no means as far behind as the C2D laptops. In fact, there are only about 10 Intel Xeons beefier than that one and it's been out a while. An update would cause a major increase in price due to the retail prices of the newer Intel Chips, e.g.,

Intel Xeon X7560 Nehalem-EX 2.26GHz 24MB L3 Cache LGA 1567 130W 8-Core Server Processor Retail: $4000

Intel Xeon X7460 Dunnington 2.66GHz Socket 604 130W Six-Core Server Processor Model BX80582X7460 Retail: $3000

Intel Xeon E7450 Dunnington 2.4GHz Socket 604 90W Six-Core Server Processor Model BX80582E7450 Retail: $2400

Intel Xeon E7540 Nehalem-EX 2.0GHz LGA 1567 105W Six-Core Server Processor Model BX80604E7540 Retail: $2200

** price estimates from Newegg.com **

 

[Eidorian]

The baseline Mac Pro has the 2.66 GHz Nehalem X5550 (retail ≈$999), 640GB HDD (≈$70), NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB

I believe you meant the $284 W3520. The GT120 is nothing more than a flashed 9500 GT.

Apple has never sold four socket Intel based systems either.

 

[reezer]

I believe you meant the $284 W3520. The GT120 is nothing more than a flashed 9500 GT.

Apple has never sold four socket Intel based systems either.

I stand corrected. Nice catch. It is ≈$1100 total. Talk about a profit margin. They need to get a $1000 CPU to justify that entry price point.

 

[stefan1975]

Apple does not run a welfare office for people with decreased economic abilities.

mmmm let me think .... where was it again that banks fell over and started the biggest economic crisis since WOII?

 

[LaMerVipere]

I have to preface this by saying I understand the complaints of everyone who sees the specs of both the new MacBook and 13" MacBook Pro and cries "Highway robbery for those specs!" As has been discussed in previous threads however, and even by Steve Jobs himself, because of the current way all of Intel's core i3/i5/i7 chips are structured, if there isn't room for a dedicated graphics chip (as there just isn't in the 13" body) your only option is Intel integrated graphics, which just plain suck.

So while you may see other laptops out there with an i3 or i5 at a similar price, I'd bet that the 2.4 Core 2 Duo with the new Nvidia graphics Apple is shipping with the MB/MBP performs quite admirable against them. Not to mention, I doubt they can touch 10 hours of battery life.

Also, as an aside, I can't help but laugh when people say this just isn't enough power for most people. I am currently typing this on a 15" MacBook Pro. But what are the specs? 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo and 4GB of RAM.

My machine absolutely tears through editing both HD video and batches of 25MB+ RAW photo files. With hardly a spec beyond the new base MB and MBP.

Also, a few friends of mine have been flaunting their i5/i7 PC laptops for some time now. But I can smile and be happy, because my computer with its "years old hardware" runs faster (circles around them in most cases) cooler and I am far more productive.

One minor quibble about this update: Edu pricing for the MacBook is now $949 instead of $899. Lame.