Is it against the site's rules to express beliefs and values in private messages, that would be moderated if posted on the forums publicly? (let's assume that all parties agree on those beliefs and values, and no member of the conversation is being harassed)
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Macrumors and Racism
- Thread starter Hoosier317
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Is it against the site's rules to express beliefs and values in private messages, that would be moderated if posted on the forums publicly? (let's assume that all parties agree on those beliefs and values, and no member of the conversation is being harassed)
That’s a whole lot of word salad to say you’re okay with Nazi sympathizers on this website. I don’t understand the complacency. I really don’t.
I’ve gotten myself suspended a couple of times. Inadvertently. I found the moderators to be fair and willing to explain what I did wrong (posting a political comment in non-political forum, for example.) They do a good job with good intentions. In fact, this is probably the best site I can think of for a relatively civil political discourse. Politics can lead to heated exchanges, and that’s understandable, but you can share pretty strong opinions here, as long as you stick to the rules.
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You realize that’s how most of the internet works, right? Most countries too. Even in South America there are Nazi sympathizers. Annk also made it very clear she isn’t ok with them, neither am I. This site goes further than most countries and bans/removes racism when racist opinions are expressed.
Personally, as someone who despises such ideologies with a loathing and hatred, I'd be "OK" with someone stating their Nazi sympathies on their profile as long as
a) That's where it ends and
b) They don't use it as a negative discussion point
It's perfectly feasible for such a person to state as such but then talk only about tech issues.
For example, not only am I a gay woman, I feel very strongly about all LGBT issues (especially the T part) and find all racism abhorrent.
I defy anyone to see that leak out in any of my posts about Apple watches, Macs, Android etc.
And the beauty of the site means you can block people for whatever reason you desire (or even no reason).
a) That's where it ends and
b) They don't use it as a negative discussion point
It's perfectly feasible for such a person to state as such but then talk only about tech issues.
For example, not only am I a gay woman, I feel very strongly about all LGBT issues (especially the T part) and find all racism abhorrent.
I defy anyone to see that leak out in any of my posts about Apple watches, Macs, Android etc.
And the beauty of the site means you can block people for whatever reason you desire (or even no reason).
I have been a member for years and can‘t think of the last time I saw a racist, homophobic or anti Semitic comment. Knowing what I know about our society, I think it speaks volumes about the efforts of the moderators. People need to chill out a little bit. I’ve seen Macrumors be accused of being “anti-conservative” before. Yet, I read some of the most far-right commentary here without as much as an ounce of censorship. You just can’t please everyone.
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I feel very strongly about the Nazi ideology. It’s abhorrent and it has no place in our society. We lost 400,000 lives fighting it in Europe and I’ve personally lost most relatives. If grandma didn’t survive by digging trenches, as a twelve years old prisoner with frost bites on her feet, I would not be here today. We can drown them out with our voices, but I agree. There should not be a platform for them to spread their hate.
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The problem I have is that I've personally studied the Nazi war machine and have countless books on the Holocaust, The Gestapo, the SS, the Wehrmacht and Nazi's in general.
It's always an interesting discussion when folk first walk into the library room and see the collection.
I do it for the simple case of wanting to truely understand just how we allowed such vile ideology to take over a huge number of people's minds.
It's all horribly painful to read, yet vital to understand. If you don't get to the very essence of an ideal, you can't fight it.
If you don't understand history you're doomed to repeat it. History is one of my most favorite subjects and I love reading books on it. I've read countless WW2 books. Agreed, must have more understanding and less emotional reaction (which seems to have caused a lot of our not so proud events in history).
So, by they logic I should expect anyone who's made it clear they don't believe in any LGBT rights to be admonished as well?
That's not how it works.
There's plenty of folk here who've made it very clear where they stand on certain issues.
I block them.
This isn't my site, and it sure as heck ain't yours either. We all follow the rules, or leave accordingly...
MacRumors. The Apple enthusiast website where saying **** is forbidden, but saying "Hitler did nothing wrong" is a-ok. Wow.
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No, that's just your perception.
No they did not. They said it's OK to state you're a sympathizer, is not OK to then make statements of hatred around that.
You are choosing what you want them to have said, not what they really said.
This used to be a fun place to discuss Macs and iPhones, but now it's a toxic cesspit. Delete my account.
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As I said, out of the HUNDREDS of thousands of posts I've read on this forum over the last 8 years, I've never once seen anyone spouting pro-nazi bullcrap or even saying they support nazi/hitler. How is this WHOLE site a toxic cesspit? Where do you find this stuff because I don't see it.
You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
If you want to have your account closed then send a message to them using the Contact us page: https://forums.macrumors.com/misc/contact/
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From one gay woman to another: you are wrong. You cannot equate Nazism with homophobia. You’ve read so many WWII books, and yet you’re still okay with Nazi sympathizers being allowed on this website? I have no words.
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Wow. Allowing users to state that they’re a Nazi sympathizer IS saying they’re okay with Nazi sympathizers being on this website. Honestly, what is not clicking for you?? What is wrong with this website? Jesus Christ.
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It’s astounding. And people are defending this. WTF.
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You want to be angry, ergo you find things to be angry about.
Emotion doesn't help fix issues. You need emotion to drive a desire to fix, but then you need to use a cool clear rational head to fight them.
Nazism and White Supremacy are two sides of the same coin: fear.
Fear is an emotion. You can't fight emotion an emotion as they both amplify eachother with almost no end.
You have to approach this with a clear analytical mindset.
It's abundantly clear you're very emotional about this - which given the current climate is hard to not understand.
That said, you'll fix nothing by letting your heart control your voice.
Case in point. Here's a post you made with emotion. Yet you're still here posting. As such you've now diluted your message and weakened your resolve.
As a result you're probably now even more angry and lashing out as a result.
If I seem calm and collected it's because I've had 45 years of being treated like **** simpley because of who I am.
I used to be angry. That got me nowhere but close to suicide.
I chose now to use my head and avoid things I know I cannot beat on my own.
As a preface, I won't associate and don't condone these hate groups, however it seems like you want the site to be run to your rules. There has to be some rules as benchmark so everyone is treated fairly. But it's a slippery slope to start banning people on the basis of they post they believe in.
Posts the violate the rules should be reported. There is nothing wrong with the website, the staff is not moderating the posts you want them to moderate.
What people seem to be defending is the idea of freedom of speech, not the ideology. In my own opinion, a very slippery slope is created when deciding what ideologies to "ban" vs what not to ban.
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Who said that, in those words?
The example you cited are two very different things. The site owner has decided on a certain level of acceptable and not acceptable profanity. The second example deals with some ideology (that personally I find detestable) but the question is should that type of post be allowed? Posting "I'm a nazi sympathizer", is different than posting, "I find Hitler did nothing wrong".
I think people here are missing the idea of what a Nazi really is. National Socialism and white supremacists are not the same thing. It's a label. White supremacists are just racists, simple as that. They've existed for thousands of years. National Socialism has not. So please stop using that silly label on everything you find offensive. It's just historically ignorant to claim that an anti-semite anti-capitalist state based on national dominance is present today in every racist or bigoted person.
While there are some that do still sympathize with the Nazi cause of racial purity, this is a small portion of the population that is usually targeted by this term. Hitler hated some groups of white people (French, Slavs, Romani) as well, but there are French and Slavs that are also called Nazis... It's really just a convenient label because people that don't know history believe in it. MacRumors in no way has defended "Nazi" sympathizers here. They're doing the best job they can, as far as I can tell.
While there are some that do still sympathize with the Nazi cause of racial purity, this is a small portion of the population that is usually targeted by this term. Hitler hated some groups of white people (French, Slavs, Romani) as well, but there are French and Slavs that are also called Nazis... It's really just a convenient label because people that don't know history believe in it. MacRumors in no way has defended "Nazi" sympathizers here. They're doing the best job they can, as far as I can tell.
@drinkingtea - I get your frustration.
If you want a serious and non-satisfying explanation, I can give it.
First, no one here is actually ok with nazi sympathizers, etc...
It's rare that people come out and identify themselves as anything. And I don't know what post you reported, and I'm not involved in day to day moderation... so take this as more a high level overview.
Reports like this typically come in as some version of "this person is defending XYZ. They are clearly racist/nazi or something". From there the moderators can look at what was said, and determine if it was against the rules or not. I hope you can see how these things arn't as clear cut as someone declaring themselves a nazi.
If someone argues against the recent Supreme Court ruling protecting LGBT workers, are they homophobic? Maybe. Should we ban people for simply arguing against it? I could see some saying 'yes', and if this was my personal Facebook feed, I might block them. But I don't expect Facebook to ban them from Facebook.
You might decide that's not good enough, but I hope that helps.
arn
If you want a serious and non-satisfying explanation, I can give it.
First, no one here is actually ok with nazi sympathizers, etc...
It's rare that people come out and identify themselves as anything. And I don't know what post you reported, and I'm not involved in day to day moderation... so take this as more a high level overview.
Reports like this typically come in as some version of "this person is defending XYZ. They are clearly racist/nazi or something". From there the moderators can look at what was said, and determine if it was against the rules or not. I hope you can see how these things arn't as clear cut as someone declaring themselves a nazi.
If someone argues against the recent Supreme Court ruling protecting LGBT workers, are they homophobic? Maybe. Should we ban people for simply arguing against it? I could see some saying 'yes', and if this was my personal Facebook feed, I might block them. But I don't expect Facebook to ban them from Facebook.
You might decide that's not good enough, but I hope that helps.
arn
The problem is some people didn't read history books and call anyone with an opinion they don't agree with a Nazi. It's the same definition of racism I put in my first post. If you're pro abortion you're a Nazi, if you're against abortion you're a Nazi, if you're pro 2A you're a Nazi, if you're anti 2A you're a Nazi.
Here is copy paste so you don't have to go back
rac·ist
/ˈrāsəst/
noun
or
Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
noun
an opinion or belief that is different than the one of the offended person
Here is copy paste so you don't have to go back
rac·ist
/ˈrāsəst/
noun
or
Na·zi
/ˈnätsē/
noun
an opinion or belief that is different than the one of the offended person
The phrase "pick your battles" can really be of use to some here. You cannot eliminate everyone who expresses support for ideologies you find distasteful. If they are not violating site rules, you can engage them, attempt to change their mind, or ignore them. If none of those options are satisfactory, then maybe this site isn't for you.
(This thread also makes me dreadfully aware of the extent to which being a moderator is a thankless job).
(This thread also makes me dreadfully aware of the extent to which being a moderator is a thankless job).
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