Mailed 2 Apple Watches by Apple. Never ordered them. Never charged for them.

[JWGold]

Thank you guys for all the great points made in this thread, some of which I never would have thought of myself. I've read everything and taken it all into consideration.

I don't think I'm going to reach out to the carriers, but I'm also not going to use either of the watches yet, because @JWGold made a great point about how that could relate to liability in the case that this is some sort of fraud.

For several reasons I really don't think that this is a case of fraud, but I will be monitoring all my accounts, and I won't be touching the watches for at least 31 days.

I will keep you guys updated.

There’s an old adage, “If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is..” Rest assured, you didn’t win the lottery. Apple didn’t magically create an order out of thin air with your name and address on it. Someone up to no good stole your identity and ordered those items. They had some sort of angle to get ahold of them before you did. There are a number of ways thieves do this. Sometimes they contact the shipper and have the parcels redirected. Sometimes, they try and get to the items before you do and take them off your porch. There are a whole number of variations. If you Google scams such as this, you will come up with dozens of examples. In this one instance, things didn’t go as planned and you got to the items first. Any way you look at it, eventually someone is going to be looking to get paid.

 

[bumbo]

Can I have one of them??

 

[KarimLeVallois]

There’s an old adage, “If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is..” Rest assured, you didn’t win the lottery. Apple didn’t magically create an order out of thin air with your name and address on it. Someone up to no good stole your identity and ordered those items. They had some sort of angle to get ahold of them before you did. There are a number of ways thieves do this. Sometimes they contact the shipper and have the parcels redirected. Sometimes, they try and get to the items before you do and take them off your porch. There are a whole number of variations. If you Google scams such as this, you will come up with dozens of examples. In this one instance, things didn’t go as planned and you got to the items first. Any way you look at it, eventually someone is going to be looking to get paid.

I totally agree with this point and I also mentioned that identity thieves often apply for new credit cards with your details and then try to intercept packages en route before getting to your door. Another red flag is the fact two watches got delivered, as if the thieves were trying to maximize on orders before being found out and the credit card being blocked.

People have no idea how easy it is to get personal details these days. Getting a date of birth or addresses from social media is far too easy, they even scan posted pictures to pinpoint your home address. As soon as they have these basic details they can apply for a credit card and spend away. The only thing that can get them caught out is the fact they have to deliver items to your home address, as that's where you are registered (electoral roll here in the U.K.). They then try to redirect post or intercept it before it can get to you and arouse suspicion.

I'd suggest holding on to them for at least a couple of months and monitor your post for any other red flags.

 

[MacModMachine]

I totally agree with this point and I also mentioned that identity thieves often apply for new credit cards with your details and then try to intercept packages en route before getting to your door. Another red flag is the fact two watches got delivered, as if the thieves were trying to maximize on orders before being found out and the credit card being blocked.

People have no idea how easy it is to get personal details these days. Getting a date of birth or addresses from social media is far too easy, they even scan posted pictures to pinpoint your home address. As soon as they have these basic details they can apply for a credit card and spend away. The only thing that can get them caught out is the fact they have to deliver items to your home address, as that's where you are registered (electoral roll here in the U.K.). They then try to redirect post or intercept it before it can get to you and arouse suspicion.

I'd suggest holding on to them for at least a couple of months and monitor your post for any other red flags.

a DOB and name/address wont get you a credit card, its quite a bit more difficult than that. The DOB and address may be able to get you more info to eventually get a credit card. Your credit card is more likely to be skimmed more than anything.

Either way , a neat little trick with identity , call transunion and equifax , tell them you think someone may have compromised your identity. This will put a flag on your account that requires verification before credit can be given out.

I had done this due to a breach in homedepot. I got a call one day and someone was trying to get a credit app processed. Turned out it was a dealership i was at and i NEVER approved the application.
[doublepost=1551872683][/doublepost]

There’s an old adage, “If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is..” Rest assured, you didn’t win the lottery. Apple didn’t magically create an order out of thin air with your name and address on it. Someone up to no good stole your identity and ordered those items. They had some sort of angle to get ahold of them before you did. There are a number of ways thieves do this. Sometimes they contact the shipper and have the parcels redirected. Sometimes, they try and get to the items before you do and take them off your porch. There are a whole number of variations. If you Google scams such as this, you will come up with dozens of examples. In this one instance, things didn’t go as planned and you got to the items first. Any way you look at it, eventually someone is going to be looking to get paid.

this seems most likely the case , considering the op just moved.

who would really know you moved....and have that updated address.....not many people.

 

[44267547]

Another red flag is the fact two watches got delivered, as if the thieves were trying to maximize on orders before being found out and the credit card being blocked.

Two orders isn't really maximizing. If somebody wanted to, they could’ve ordered multiple products in the same order, for example>Two Apple watches, an iPad, and iPhone, etc. probably it’s easier to mix and match products to avoid more suspicion, versus ordering XYZ amount of the same product.

 

[KarimLeVallois]

Two orders isn't really maximizing. If somebody wanted to, they could’ve ordered multiple products in the same order, for example>Two Apple watches, an iPad, and iPhone, etc. probably it’s easier to mix and match products to avoid more suspicion, versus ordering XYZ amount of the same product.

Depends on the limit of the credit card really, perhaps they only had $1,000 to play with? Perhaps they wanted to diversify spending through multiple companies, rather than looking suspicious ordering thousands of dollars worth of equipment through one? Perhaps they wanted to separate deliveries in order to maximise the chances of interception?
[doublepost=1551876553][/doublepost]

a DOB and name/address wont get you a credit card, its quite a bit more difficult than that. The DOB and address may be able to get you more info to eventually get a credit card. Your credit card is more likely to be skimmed more than anything.

You can set up a credit card easily enough here with those details as long as you are registered at your address on the electoral role. Standard details required are the following: -

Name
Address
Date of birth
Nationality
Employment status
Salary

All these can be obtained easily if the person being cloned are not careful with documentation, have their mail intercepted, or via online (social media) etc.

 

[Brian Y]

Not sure if I should post it since there's a decent amount of info on it that I don't fully understand, but it is addressed to me, my address, and my phone number, and it says it's from "OHL C/O APPLE INC" in Mount Juliet, TN.
[doublepost=1551811909][/doublepost]Okay I have an update. I called Apple and they said "it sounds like you've won the watch lottery," but after I requested billing info, they looked it up and said it was not from Apple. I forget exactly what they said when I asked why the shipping label says it came from Apple, but I think they basically just implied that it could say that on the box even if it wasn't from them. So basically Apple doesn't know what's going on either and they said it must have been ordered from a carrier. They didn't say much other than that I should thoroughly inspect the packaging once I receive it (it is currently with family members because it went to my old address) to try to find which carrier it came from, and reach out to the carrier from there. Anybody know if cellular Apple Watches come with some sort of indication of the carrier they came from?

As I said previously - anything that has come from Apple directly will have a date on the warranty checker.

Easiest way to see where they've come from is from the tracking number - see where the package started its journey and check who has a distribution hub in that location.

Also - AppleCare may not have the information, but Apple Stores may be able to get it. When checking a serial number, it will show them the original distribution location. That may tell you it was shipped to a specific carrier, or a distribution partner who sends them out to various carriers/third parties.

 

[Darth.Titan]

OHL, Ozburn-Hessey Logistics, is a logistics company that regularly works with Apple. I even found a post on this forum referencing an iPad order that came from them.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ipad-pro-pre-order-thread-official-release.1936256/page-23#post-22232258

It looks to me like this was shipped from Apple directly.

 

[magicschoolbus]

people should lay off this person. He/she did the right thing and attempted to solve the issue - and went public about it - which is A LOT more then other people would do.

You made the attempt and no info was given to resolve your issue, which is technically their issue.

I'd look the other way - you tried and did not get an answer. If any company thinks they are going to have customers solving their own issues for them, and taking time out of your day that could be spent with loved ones, taking care of family, work, etc - they are just morality trolls.

I bet half the people on this board or commenting wouldn't of even said a thing.


Keep an eye on your credit report/bank accounts and enjoy your watch(es).

 

[Matz]

Interesting thread.

And while mistakes do happen, I too tend toward the “if it sounds too good to be true...” camp.

Seems odd that someone would try such a scam with Apple products, since as others have pointed out, the delivery has to be signed for at the address of record.

That said, as a practical matter, how tough would it be for someone to open a credit card account with someone else’s info, order something to test it, then change the address on the account and order more stuff?

Not a particularly appealing way to make a living, IMHO.

 

[collin_]

Question for the credit gurus out there - just want to be sure,

If I check my credit report (I use CreditKarma) a month from now, and there still aren't any new accounts, then am I definitely in the clear regarding the fraud possibility?
[doublepost=1551906595][/doublepost]Another question for the credit gurus (family member said this),

In order for someone to open a new account in my name, a credit inquiry would have to happen, and credit inquiries get reported instantly. So if I'm seeing no new credit inquiries, how is there still a possibility that someone has stolen my identity?

 

[jaybar]

I am not sure that checking with Credit Kharma is the same as checking with the credit bureaus. Others might weight in.

 

[JWGold]

Interesting thread.

And while mistakes do happen, I too tend toward the “if it sounds too good to be true...” camp.

Seems odd that someone would try such a scam with Apple products, since as others have pointed out, the delivery has to be signed for at the address of record.

That said, as a practical matter, how tough would it be for someone to open a credit card account with someone else’s info, order something to test it, then change the address on the account and order more stuff?

Not a particularly appealing way to make a living, IMHO.

At the end of the day, it’s not Apple that’s the victim. The victim in these cases is the credit card company that issued a card and the person whose identity was stolen. They are the ones who will ultimately suffer the loss, not Apple.

That being said, there are many ways the perpetrators end up getting the product. One way is to establish credit using a person’s name, DOB, address, etc, but with a fictitious email address. In this way, all tracking numbers go to the fictitious email account. Then the scammer can get the tracking number emailed to him directly where he can have the parcel redirected to a different address. Another way scammers do it is to wait for the delivery and walk up as sign for the parcel right off the victim’s porch. The parcel carriers don’t ask for ID, and they don’t question it if you happen to be walking up the driveway and pretend like you just got home. Another way scammers get parcels is to provide a return label that goes to another location entirely.
Here is an explanation of that scam:

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2017/04/a_new_scam_watch_out_for_deliv.html

 

[collin_]

I am not sure that checking with Credit Kharma is the same as checking with the credit bureaus. Others might weight in.

CreditKarma gets its information from the credit bureaus.
[doublepost=1551913253][/doublepost]

Interesting thread.

And while mistakes do happen, I too tend toward the “if it sounds too good to be true...” camp.

Seems odd that someone would try such a scam with Apple products, since as others have pointed out, the delivery has to be signed for at the address of record.

That said, as a practical matter, how tough would it be for someone to open a credit card account with someone else’s info, order something to test it, then change the address on the account and order more stuff?

Not a particularly appealing way to make a living, IMHO.

According to the tracking information, this order actually didn't require a signature.
[doublepost=1551913358][/doublepost]At this point I am pretty certain that this is not a scam, due to the credit inquiry process I have mentioned above. If anyone thinks otherwise, please let us know.

 

[Fatyank]

Credit Karma is okay but not super accurate. They give you a general idea of your credit history. You need to check with the major credit bureaus. It takes about 2 to 3 months for credit transactions to show up on your report. Just the way it is.
If you are comfortable with keeping the watches, I wish you the best but keep a close eye on your credit history. It seems like someone's scam didn't go according to plan. You may get hit down the road for the cost of the watches. If you have them still as shipped to you, you'll be in a much better position to clear this up.

 

[44267547]

At this point I am pretty certain that this is not a scam, due to the credit inquiry process I have mentioned above. If anyone thinks otherwise, please let us know.

And maybe it’s not a scam. All the signs show that this looks like some type of compromised security breach with your information, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is either.

My other advice to you is this, if you plan on keeping the watches, I would not use them and keep them boxed until all this passes. And what do I mean by that? I mean, that if you start using the watches or you decide to sell them, then if you report any type of fraudulent activity with your account if something arises later on, it won’t look good, and actually would raise more suspicion of why you either kept/used the watches or sold them knowingly they weren’t yours to begin with. This is why I suggested taking pictures.

What you could do, (And I gather this is not what you will do), you could turn the watches in to your local law-enforcement as ‘found property’, which essentially means that it’s property that doesn’t belong to you, but somehow was mistakenly given to you or something that you came across, that kind of clears you if you decide to keep something knowingly didn’t belong to you in the first place. [FTR, I’m not passing judgment on you for anything, I’m just making an alternative suggestion to back yourself if things turn sideways.]

 

[StellarVixen]

Just keep them...


That's what I would do...I would wait a little bit, and if no one comes looking for them...they would be all mine.


Even though I never wanted one, freebie is a freebie.

 

[collin_]

All the signs show that this looks like some type of compromised security breach with your information, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is either.

It is certainly odd and mysterious, but I disagree with this statement - mainly because there no new credit inquiries.
[doublepost=1551914475][/doublepost]

Credit Karma is okay but not super accurate. They give you a general idea of your credit history. You need to check with the major credit bureaus. It takes about 2 to 3 months for credit transactions to show up on your report. Just the way it is.
If you are comfortable with keeping the watches, I wish you the best but keep a close eye on your credit history. It seems like someone's scam didn't go according to plan. You may get hit down the road for the cost of the watches. If you have them still as shipped to you, you'll be in a much better position to clear this up.

I don't know much about CreditKarma, but are giving me detailed information directly from the credit bureaus, and telling me when things were last updated. I have also checked with Chase to verify that there are no new inquiries.

 

[44267547]

It is certainly odd and mysterious,

Genuinely curious, if you’re not concerned that there’s no credit breach and your information wasn’t intercepted, then why are you asking all these questions?

I mean, it seems you already know what to do, but you have your own alternative solutions of what you will do, but yet you’re confident your information has not been breached, but yet you seemingly are unsettled about this whole matter.

 

[collin_]

Genuinely curious, if you’re not concerned that there’s no credit breach and your information wasn’t intercepted, then why are you asking all these questions?

Because everybody else seems to be concerned. I am only 21 and not exactly a personal finance guru, so I think I should seek others' opinions on this. However, based on everything I've checked and my conversations with my family (including me father, who knows this stuff much better than me), I can still find no evidence of fraud.

 

[44267547]

Because everybody else seems to be concerned. I am only 21 and not exactly a personal finance guru.

You know what would surprise me, is if you come back to this thread, let’s say in two months, and then say that it was fraud and your information was intercepted, now _that_ would be something to be concerned with. Either way, plenty of sound advice was given to you, it’s what you choose to do with that advice that ultimately will cover you, and your age really has nothing to do with it, it’s just common sense moving forward.

 

[JWGold]

At this point I am pretty certain that this is not a scam, due to the credit inquiry process I have mentioned above. If anyone thinks otherwise, please let us know.

Question for you. Have you EVER ordered anything from Apple and had it sent to the address where the Apple watches were delivered? If the answer is no, there is no way that Apple came up with your name and a delivery address by accident. If it isn’t a scam, then it must be magic.

 

[collin_]

Question for you. Have you EVER ordered anything from Apple and had it sent to the address where the Apple watches were delivered? If the answer is no, there is no way that Apple came up with your name and a delivery address by accident. If it isn’t a scam, then it must be magic.

Yes. I ordered my cousin a MacBook Pro for Christmas and had it sent to me first so I could wrap it. Somewhat ironically, it got lost in the mail. It was never found, and Apple sent me a replacement.

At this point, I honestly think the most likely explanation is that some random couple or whoever ordered them from a carrier and some employee or software along the way made a mistake and sent them to me.

 

[artfossil]

Question for you. Have you EVER ordered anything from Apple and had it sent to the address where the Apple watches were delivered? If the answer is no, there is no way that Apple came up with your name and a delivery address by accident. If it isn’t a scam, then it must be magic.

Not necessarily. The watches could have come from a carrier or third party vendor, meaning the error (or scam) was at the carrier or third party vendor level, not with Apple. The TN address could be, according to a quick Google search, an Apple product hub for shipments from China (e.g. by a carrier or third party vendor).

Personally, I'd put the odds of this situation ending well (for the OP) at less than 50%.

 

[JWGold]

Yes. I ordered my cousin a MacBook Pro for Christmas and had it sent to me first so I could wrap it. Somewhat ironically, it got lost in the mail. It was never found, and Apple sent me a replacement.

At this point, I honestly think the most likely explanation is that some random couple or whoever ordered them from a carrier and some employee or software along the way made a mistake and sent them to me.

The only words of advice I can give you after all these responses is that there are hundreds of scams just like what you’ve described. You can google them and come up with example after example. I’ve spent 30+ years investigating financial crimes so it’s not my first rodeo. There are credit cards that can be obtained without running credit, and there are other ways to circumvent the credit notification process. If it makes you feel better to think this was just a huge coincidence, that’s fine, but just understand that my experience tells me there is some sort of scam behind this. I do not think you are a dishonest person or you would never have posted this here. However, I do believe you are a bit naive to think it is a mistake.