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Apple seems to think they have a shovel and a plan to use it, right?
I think, that Apple thinks that.

And if I’m honest, it may be the only viable strategy.

The goal I believe is to achieve parity with the amount of games that the PC enjoys. The way to do this (in my opinion and I think Apple agrees) is to spend resources on helping port big titles (through their agreement with Capcom), and making the barrier to port existing titles lower (through tools like GPTK).

And ultimately, Apple would like this process to be self-sustaining. They likely don’t want to forever spend money on coercing companies to port games for eternity.
 
Yes, this subject has been beaten to death here and elsewhere. Even you have posted about it here and in other threads before with similar arguments about the graphics APIs. You’re stating the obvious. Game development on any platform is not for everybody. If people don’t have the time, money, knowledge, audience, creativity, game quality or other resources they shouldn’t make games for different platforms, or at all.

At the same time some of such arguments sound as usual overblown. It is in the nature of things that you need a Mac to develop and test Mac games just as you need a PC to do the same. At the same time the cost can be the same. With so many different PC configurations with components and drivers from Intel, Nvidia, AMD and Microsoft and all third party manufacturers of computers, motherboards and GPUs it can cost quite a lot to test and make sure your games run on as many combinations as possible. Depending on your game you can’t always buy the cheapest PC either. Sure, you can buy a RTX 3060 but it gives you about 20 fps in Unreal 4 according to Puget Systems. RTX 4090 gives you 92 fps but it also costs between $2000 and $3200 (Asus ROG Matrix Platinum GeForce RTX 4090) alone. Many developers buy the top systems due to use of many different game development tools. So HW for game development is not always cheaper on the PC side.

That’s why many game developers also say it is harder to port games to PC than consoles. As Disparity Games cofounder Jason Stark points out:

”Gamers ask, ‘Why can’t they just release the version they develop with?’ Then, when developers do just release [that] and it’s a buggy mess, they ask: ‘Why are developers so lazy?’ Well, It’s because they released what they had. Think about how many components that make up your setup. Each runs on drivers that may or may not be up to date and interact with one another in complex ways. Throw a game that hasn’t had much troubleshooting into this soup of software and hardware and it’s no wonder tweaking game settings is a foundation of PC gaming. In this context, the difference between a ‘good’ and ‘bad’ PC release can come down to how much time and money you can throw at your title. Bringing a game to consoles is difficult, but at least you know that a bug that happens on your Xbox One is going to happen on every Xbox One.”

Apple Silicon with its unified architecture is more like consoles and have an advantage there being used in iPhones, iPads and Macs.

We have also cross-platform tools like Unreal Engine, Unity and Godot. I know it’s not like a click on a button but it can be easier than Xcode, even though Xcode is one of the best dev tools according to some.

That $99 fee was mentioned recently and honestly it’s a very lame excuse as some developers here have already explained. We’re talking about 27 cents a day, or $8.25 a month. Many TV streaming services cost twice as much and many people use more than one. Netflix, Max and Hulu cost 15-18 dollars a month. So we must be talking about a fresh broke developer who just has started their business and can’t afford much more than their own home PC.

Fortunately there is a great solution even to that. Many small or even major developers have made it thanks to Kickstarter. It’s becoming more of a rule than exception. The most successful case (leaving Star Citizen out) is Shenmue 3. So you don’t have to buy that Mac or pay Apple’s fee yourself if you have a great idea.

The Mac market is not small with its over 20% of desktop computer share worldwide but I agree that the Mac game market is small. Yet we continue to get both small indie games and major AAA titles that defy everything you said so the market is apparently there and enough for many others. There is also some help to get from Apple. As I’ve said before they helped 4A with Metro Exodus, Larian with BG3, Piranha Bytes with Elex 2 and Hello Games with No Man’s Sky for free to optimize their games and have worked with Capcom, Bloober Team, Fallen Leaf and more.

The best example perhaps of an indie developer defying everything you said is Team Cherry, the makers of Hollow Knight and Silksong. They’re a small team of only three people, they used Unity to be cross-platform to make Hollow Knight and they funded their project with Kickstarter. They needed just AU$ 35,000 to make the game for PC, Mac and Linux from the start but got more than 57,000. It is also the most financially successful low-budget game. It has sold more than 2.8 million copies and made over $42 million. Imagine if they were ”unwilling to do” it because ”it's too troublesome”.

I also posted about Bzzzt before. It’s made in Unity by a single developer from the Czech Republic named Karel Matejka. The game was rated as nr 1 best Hidden Gem on Steam with very positive reviews from journalists and users. He has worked 30 years though in the business on titles such as Mafia, Operation Flashpoint, ArmA, Memento Mori 1 and 2, Star Wars: Assault Team, Nemo's Reef, Toy Story: Smash It and more so he has the experience. ”Undertaking a project like this requires exceptional dedication and incredible skill. In the end, Bzzzt required drawing an unbelievable amount of 10,000+ sprites, crafting hundreds of meticulously hand-made animations, and spending over 1,000 hours on gameplay and control coding and tweaking.”, all made by a single dev.

A recent example of a major title that also proves otherwise is Lies of P, Mac Game of the Year that surprised everybody with its day-and-date release on Mac, using Metal 3 with MetalFX, made cross-platform in Unreal Engine.

Then we have Hello Games that was eager to port NMS entirely in Xcode. They also consider themselves a small developer and started the project a year before Apple jumped in to offer help for optimization.

It’s a good thing then that we have devs like Team Cherry, Capcom, Kojima Productions, NEOWIZ, Hello Games, Sports Interactive, Bloober Team, Fallen Leaf, BlueTweleve Studio, Piranha Bytes, Saber Interactive, SGRA Studio, Rockfish Games, BlackMill Games, Feral, 4A, Larian Studios and Nimble Giant that can afford a $600 Mac and a $99 Apple fee and aren’t afraid of learning and using Metal to make native ports for Apple Silicon despite the small market share.
So what?
I don't want to argue with you because you are trying to bring me into your rhythm with your conclusions, which is meaningless because even if you win the argument, you cannot gain any market share for Mac and there will be no change in the bad situation.
Perhaps you mentioned that Apple is making various efforts and providing you with a lot of convenience, but these conveniences are not enough to make up for their own mistakes. There are still not many people creating games for you, and your games are still scarce. Then continue to be arrogant, continue dreaming, and continue the vicious cycle.
I saw that you mentioned tools like UE, Unity, and Godot, but unfortunately, there are very few users who support Unity now because they did something to destroy their credit in September, which is the infamous installation cost incident. A large number of developers have already left this development platform and fled to open source engines such as Godot and Cocos. These two engines have various shortcomings, and they need to create their own tools to complete the game completely,
Among them, Godot is the most unstable game engine, and many of the bugs are not caused by developers, but by the official of their engine. Moreover, these bugs have not been fixed for two years,
Why do I know that because I used to be their user, I have already transferred the project from Unity to UE, and UE is giving up on treating 2D games? It's difficult for you to get good 2D game support from UE. It focuses on 3D, and my 2D game was created through OpenGL without any engine. I won't waste time adding a metal to myself, which is completely unnecessary.
Yes, UE supports metal, but it doesn't attract others to use it because I already own a PC and I'm not willing to increase the cost to continue buying a Mac computer. Its share and difficulty are not enough to attract me to do so. You would say that the cost difference between buying a Mac computer and a PC computer is not much, which is not enough to convince us because it is equivalent to two computers for us, and it has no effect other than developing games, I need to purchase any software again, and I will waste a lot of money to make it usable. I only need to use a PC for work, why bother with it? Spending this money on testing Mac games?
In addition, the $99 I mentioned is the creator registration fee. I remember Microsoft's $19 is permanent, and there will be no charge for games provided in the future. Apple is far behind in this regard.
I don't understand why you have to mention so much about XBOX. I don't have any ideas about consoles. "Porting consoles is more difficult than PC," as stated by Unity official. It also requires machines to undergo closed testing. If you haven't done this before, please don't comment on it.
Perhaps Mac holds a 20% share in the computer market, but this is not convincing information because most of them are not gamers, and a large number of Mac users only use it to work and do not participate in the gaming market, including platforms such as Steam and Epic. They are pitifully few gamers, and 3A players are even fewer (even on PC platforms, 3A does not dominate mainstream games). What's even more ridiculous is that, In global Steam statistics, the proportion of Macs is even surpassed by Linux.
As Unity becomes an engine that is difficult to choose from, and Steam stops supporting older versions of Mac systems, it becomes even more impossible. I haven't seen any bright future for Mac, I don't know why you are so confident.
 
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So what?
I don't want to argue with you because you are trying to bring me into your rhythm with your conclusions, which is meaningless because even if you win the argument, you cannot gain any market share for Mac and there will be no change in the bad situation.
Perhaps you mentioned that Apple is making various efforts and providing you with a lot of convenience, but these conveniences are not enough to make up for their own mistakes. There are still not many people creating games for you, and your games are still scarce. Then continue to be arrogant, continue dreaming, and continue the vicious cycle.
I saw that you mentioned tools like UE, Unity, and Godot, but unfortunately, there are very few users who support Unity now because they did something to destroy their credit in September, which is the infamous installation cost incident. A large number of developers have already left this development platform and fled to open source engines such as Godot and Cocos. These two engines have various shortcomings, and they need to create their own tools to complete the game completely,
Among them, Godot is the most unstable game engine, and many of the bugs are not caused by developers, but by the official of their engine. Moreover, these bugs have not been fixed for two years,
Why do I know that because I used to be their user, I have already transferred the project from Unity to UE, and UE is giving up on treating 2D games? It's difficult for you to get good 2D game support from UE. It focuses on 3D, and my 2D game was created through OpenGL without any engine. I won't waste time adding a metal to myself, which is completely unnecessary.
Yes, UE supports metal, but it doesn't attract others to use it because I already own a PC and I'm not willing to increase the cost to continue buying a Mac computer. Its share and difficulty are not enough to attract me to do so. You would say that the cost difference between buying a Mac computer and a PC computer is not much, which is not enough to convince us because it is equivalent to two computers for us, and it has no effect other than developing games, I need to purchase any software again, and I will waste a lot of money to make it usable. I only need to use a PC for work, why bother with it? Spending this money on testing Mac games?
In addition, the $99 I mentioned is the creator registration fee. I remember Microsoft's $19 is permanent, and there will be no charge for games provided in the future. Apple is far behind in this regard.
I don't understand why you have to mention so much about XBOX. I don't have any ideas about consoles. "Porting consoles is more difficult than PC," as stated by Unity official. It also requires machines to undergo closed testing. If you haven't done this before, please don't comment on it.
Perhaps Mac holds a 20% share in the computer market, but this is not convincing information because most of them are not gamers, and a large number of Mac users only use it to work and do not participate in the gaming market, including platforms such as Steam and Epic. They are pitifully few gamers, and 3A players are even fewer (even on PC platforms, 3A does not dominate mainstream games). What's even more ridiculous is that, In global Steam statistics, the proportion of Macs is even surpassed by Linux.
As Unity becomes an engine that is difficult to choose from, and Steam stops supporting older versions of Mac systems, it becomes even more impossible. I haven't seen any bright future for Mac, I don't know why you are so confident.

Arrogant? I’m well aware of the Mac gaming situation and just stating the facts here. It’s more arrogant to expect that the small Mac market with 1.53% on Steam should have as many games as Windows. It’s perfectly natural that there are fewer games because of the Mac market share. Vicious cycle of what? What are you even talking about? Dreaming of what? Again those devs bringing their games to Mac is a fact, not dreams. Stray, Lies of P, Resident Evil 4 and Death Stranding are not dreams, just to mention a few.

Just because you don’t bother and it’s a waste of money for you it doesn’t mean it is so for every developer as I showed before. Don’t want to develop for Mac? Fine! Think there are few games on Mac for your needs? Fine, buy a PC or console but don’t generalize based only on your own experience and preferences. No matter how small the market share is the games keep coming, both indie and AAA. Nothing you and others say seems to change that.

That argument about Steam survey has also been beaten to death in this thread. It's also ridiculous when people only mention Steam stats and forget how it's done and all the players outside Steam on App Store, GOG and elsewhere. You sound as if I'm trying to convert you. You do what you like. After all it's a free world. I’m just telling you the situation is different for many other developers.

Mention so much about Xbox? Xbox is mentioned once in a quote about PC vs consoles. The reason for that quote was to show game development for PC is harder than you suggest. You started by saying how difficult it is to make games for Mac when it’s not so much easier for PC for those reasons I mentioned. That’s why Apple Silicon and consoles have more in common with the same architecture across multiple devices and are easier to support as mentioned in the article.

Your situation may be different but here is another developer who is excited and ”bullish” on Mac gaming, CCP Games with EVE Online:

“One of the first things we had to do was really look at our core architecture and how we developed the game. We had to take the game from 32-bit to 64-bit. There was a lot of just cleanup of old, fantastic ideas [in the code] that were probably the best ideas at the moment they were made, but the game is 18 years old, so there’s been 18 years of development, 18 years of progress in the world. It sometimes catches up to you, but this process was way smoother than I’d even dared to predict when we started this project.”

”We’ve done this because we’ve had a Mac client for the longest time and there’s been a lot of love from Apple on EVE. There are a lot of people at Apple that are EVE players, and a lot of people at CCP that are Mac users. So that’s definitely been part of our motivation, and the user base that uses a Mac is a healthy number.”

”Perhaps most important of all, though, is Apple’s move to its own silicon. The M1 really, really, really changes the situation. It is a really powerful piece of kit and there’s more to come, based on rumors and whatnot and reading the tea leaves. Other studios, absolutely, should update their worldview on the capabilities of the Mac. The laptops in particular are a game change. Like, you can play EVE Online on an M1 Mac for hours on end on battery, and nothing really compares on that front. You can’t really do that on any other laptop but an M1 laptop, and that is a fundamental game-changer to how you can play EVE Online. Playing on a battery was kind of science fiction before the M1.”

”That isn’t chalked up to the hardware alone, obviously. EVE Online’s native Mac client was specifically optimized for the Apple M1 chip, so it runs especially well on this hardware compared to other games. It’s definitely a testament to the great work that the team did on the Metal rendering path [for the Mac client].”

“I think people have largely been in this camp of Macs and games not being a match made in heaven, but people should update their worldview. We’ve seen a great benefit from doing this, and I think we will continue to reap the benefits for a long time to come.”
 
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They’re selling Apple TV+ subscriptions, at $10 monthly.
Does that cover their spending on their shows/movies? Anyway, I'd assume they'd sell what games are published (whether directly or via subscription).

Some basic math tells me that you could get 5 and a half years of Apple TV+ for the single purchase of a base Mac Mini and one(1) game title.

And given, much to my dismay, how crazy profitable subscription services are, I think your risk estimate is off.
Can you explain this? I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this.

And, lest we forget, Apples goal isn’t to make Mac games. It’s to sell Macs.
...ok? I have no idea why this is being turned into a thing just about the Mac anyway. I'd like Apple to publish bigger games, not just some for Arcade. And for all eligible platforms, not just the Mac. And definitely not for the attraction of PC gamers, that would be weird.
 
Given Apple, we could also say one of their goals is to gain a positive, or at the least neutral, reputation with gaming.

How many product categories are they in, and how many actively negative reputations do they have?

They generally try to keep things positive, and gaming's been the real thorn in their side.
 
I wonder if the recent effort from Apple on gaming is ground work for the Vision Pro. Although I don’t remember Apple talking about gaming on the Vision Pro, they might want to showcase some native VR gaming experience.
 
I wonder if the recent effort from Apple on gaming is ground work for the Vision Pro. Although I don’t remember Apple talking about gaming on the Vision Pro, they might want to showcase some native VR gaming experience.

Yes, there are already games in development for Vision Pro. Demeo is one I found.
 
Two other games announced at The Game Awards coming to Mac are Usual June from people behind Tunic/Night in the Woods, and Big Walk from people behind Untitled Goose Game.


 
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Given Apple, we could also say one of their goals is to gain a positive, or at the least neutral, reputation with gaming.

How many product categories are they in, and how many actively negative reputations do they have?

They generally try to keep things positive, and gaming's been the real thorn in their side.

Well I can personally say it's not just gaming that they got a negative reputation in. The HomePod is an absolute joke. Fantastic audio quality but horrible software for how much they're asking for it
 
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If someone plans to launch their game on a Mac, developers need to purchase a $600 Mac computer and spend a lot of time learning new game engines or metal graphics interfaces (because their engines use OpenGL or Directx 11), then conduct extensive testing in unfamiliar environments, endure poor performance issues and errors, and after successful repairs, spend $99 per year on author fees and put the game in store for review. This is something many people are unwilling to do, it's too troublesome.
Another thing to pay attention to is that the Mac market is very small, and they are all worried about whether their games have considerable sales to support them in doing so. If there is not a lot of profit, I believe they will not leave their seats.
Similarly, Linux is also a platform with low appeal, although it is very similar to the Windows platform.


If I only use Mac’s and want to make a Windows game, not only is it the same price or MORE expensive, but to do things right you need to test with AMD and NVIDIA. My game testing lab has 5 Windows PCs to ensure my game performs well in some various configuration.
 
Does that cover their spending on their shows/movies? Anyway, I'd assume they'd sell what games are published (whether directly or via subscription).
I would hazard a guess that it more than covers costs of making content, considering services are at an all time high and growing.
Can you explain this? I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this.
My point is the consumer barrier to entry is much lower for Apple TV+ than a single, Mac-exclusive game. (i.e. TV+ is $10 per month and a single, Mac exclusive game would cost at least $600 for a basic Mac Mini and $60 for a single game)

That limits the reach and potential profitability.
...ok? I have no idea why this is being turned into a thing just about the Mac anyway. I'd like Apple to publish bigger games, not just some for Arcade. And for all eligible platforms, not just the Mac. And definitely not for the attraction of PC gamers, that would be weird.
I think we’ve found our communication problem.

When discussing this topic, it’s usually under the context of “getting more games onto the Mac” or achieving parity with the PC.

I was discussing under that point of view.

Anyway, I don’t see the point of Apple making games for other platforms, it’s not really their thing.
 
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It could allow them to recoup funding faster (clearly depending on the game).
Yeah but then they’re just a games studio. Not really conducive to getting games on the Mac, and considerably more expensive than just paying for ports.
 
Yeah but then they’re just a games studio. Not really conducive to getting games on the Mac, and considerably more expensive than just paying for ports.
It is why I said depends on the games. Not just a games studio, a publisher...

How much money do you think Apple will have to give MS to port CoD to macOS (assuming they haven't dropped the iOS version of IW Engine)? How much money would they have to pay year after year to keep getting the latest versions on macOS?
 
assuming they haven't dropped the iOS version of IW Engine

Why assume? They announced it for mobile iPhone/iPad/Android back in 2022 and Apple showcased it in Feb this year. It was planned for Fall 2023 but has been delayed to April 2024.



 
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Why assume? They announced it for mobile iPhone/iPad/Android back in 2022 and Apple showcased it in Feb this year. It was planned for Fall 2023 but has been delayed to April 2024.



Wasn't sure if they switched back to Unity instead of using the mainline game engine. Good to see it is still coming out for iOS. Shame enough money didn't change hands to allow it on macOS.
 
Wasn't sure if they switched back to Unity instead of using the mainline game engine. Good to see it is still coming out for iOS. Shame enough money didn't change hands to allow it on macOS.

Didn't know CoD Mobile ran on Unity but I read now that they're phasing out that game outside China in favor of Warzone and Warzone Mobile uses IW engine. We'll see if it will be playable on Mac. Maybe they'll allow the mobile game be playable like Warframe. Maybe that's why they delayed it. "This content may change without notice, and the final product may be different." ;)
 
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Grid is out.

 
Grid is out.

Trying to DL it now, I wish the App Store gave more info on download progress.
 
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