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I wonder how many complaints in this thread would go away if Apple bundled something like this with the MacBook Pro. I have it and it works great.

https://www.amazon.com/QacQoc-Alumi...d=1510854042&sr=8-4&keywords=qacqoc+usb+c+hub
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There is a Griffin USB-C cable that works similarly, but I agree an Apple design would be nice. That said, I can see why they got rid of the separate MagSafe port and proprietary cable. Apple MagSafe power cords are notorious for fraying over time. I think it's because Apple didn't want to use heavier gauge wire because it would interfere with the operation of breakaway feature (it would require a stronger magnet).
These little issues sound like they can be solved though. Removing MagSafe is a downgrade of sorts. In a way, the method Apple Watch uses to charge is a form of MagSafe. Wonder if a Apple could borrow ideas from Apple Watch charging.
 
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I'm concerned with when I'm on the go and need to plug in a USB-A device - It's a lot.

Docked situations are a whole different discussion for me.

Way too many people here are excited about USB-C potential and specs when many of us are concerned with stuff we do with our notebooks, on the go, daily (as in I used the USB-A port on my 2015 2x this morning).
So buy a USB-C to USB-A female cable. And it’s really not the USB-C connector people are excited about, it’s the TB3 protocol that basically gives you an external PCIe 3.0 slot.

Not all USB-C ports offer TB3 (including the 12” MacBook) but the MBP does. So you could use an eGPU enclosure and run an nVidia 1080ti in it. You’d trade that off so you wouldn’t have to have an extra 6” cable plugged into your mouse?

Times change, technology marches on relentlessly. Yeah, maybe Apple should have included a USB-A port or included a cable but they didn’t. Buy the $10 cable and move on with your life.
 
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Wrong! The best laptop that ever existed were the 2006-2009 white polycarbonite Macbooks--easy to upgrade and repair, classy looking, and reasonably priced.
Please tell me you’re joking. They overheated like crazy (so much so the heat would cause cracks on the plastic), the screen was bad even for it’s time and the optical drive could scratch discs from the slightest of movements.
 
2012-2015 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-A to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB1/2 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: mDP to DP or HDMI to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB3-A to USB-3B or TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable
- RAID: TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable

2016-2017 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-C to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB3 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: USB-C to DP or USB-C to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB-C to USB-C or TB3 to TB3 cable
- RAID: TB3 to TB3 cable

You need the same number of unique cables or adaptors for both types of MBP. Sure, these are new cables and you might need additional cables/adaptors for older peripherals (USB-C to USB-B cable, USB-C to USB-A adaptor, TB3 to TB2 adaptor) but the same was true for older peripherals five years ago (USB2-A to USB2-B, TB1/2 to FW800, FW800 to FW400). If you think that nobody should be forced to buy new cables or adaptors, than we still should have VGA, DVI, and FW ports.
  • iPhone: $25 extra. I've got about 10 free USB cables from every iPhone.
  • Networking cable: $29 dongle. Already own USB dongle.
  • Monitor: $69 dongle on Apple's site. I've got at least spare HDMI cables lying around that came free with various devices over the years.
  • External HDD: $29.95 (x2) USB-C to USB Micro B cable
  • RAID: $49 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C to Thunderbolt 2 cable
  • Flash drive: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
  • External camera control: $19 dongle USB-C to USB Micro
  • USB Microphone: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
$288.90 + $2599 to get the cheapest 15" that matches the 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD I already have in my five year old machine and we're looking at $2,887.90 just to get a machine that Geekbenches 14500 vs 12000 for my 2012 retina machine and 10000 on my iPhone X. No freaking way man. That's nuts. If my MBP exploded tomorrow I'd rather get a refurb 2015 for $1500-1600 or take my chances on Craigslist for $1200-1300. Although honestly my iPad Pro has been slowly replacing it so I'd probably just get a 2017 5K iMac like I've got at work.
 
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I completely agree, the new macbook pro keyboard is rubbish, and the magsafe lost is totally dumb.
 
  • iPhone: $25 extra. I've got about 10 free USB cables from every iPhone.
  • Networking cable: $29 dongle. Already own USB dongle.
  • Monitor: $69 dongle on Apple's site. I've got at least spare HDMI cables lying around that came free with various devices over the years.
  • External HDD: $29.95 (x2) USB-C to USB Micro B cable
  • RAID: $49 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C to Thunderbolt 2 cable
  • Flash drive: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
  • External camera control: $19 dongle USB-C to USB Micro
  • USB Microphone: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
$288.90 + $2599 to get the cheapest 15" that matches the 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD I already have in my five year old machine and we're looking at $2,887.90 just to get a machine that Geekbenches 14500 vs 12000 for my 2012 retina machine and 10000 on my iPhone X. No freaking way man. That's nuts. If my MBP exploded tomorrow I'd rather get a refurb 2015 for $1500-1600 or take my chances on Craigslist for $1200-1300. Although honestly my iPad Pro has been slowly replacing it so I'd probably just get a 2017 5K iMac like I've got at work.
Or you can buy the hub that I posted a link to for $75 and get Ethernet, 3 USB-A, HDMI and SD.
 
while apple touts its environmental efforts, the trend is so damn wrong. for those who truly love their macbooks, these serve for many years. and with the technology advancing, we need constantly more ram and storage, both which is now not upgradeable. that cuts your macs productive life to 4-5years max.. but we all know what magic a newer ssd can do with some 2010 mbp for example. i hate this new approach
 
By making every iMac buyer buy an entirely new screen every time because the mini's lobotomized and the Mac Pro is stuck between floors. Oh, sorry, wrong thread.

Every time? Every time what happens?

I would argue that most bits of an iMac age* at a similar rate. I know this is roughly true for my son's 2010 iMac, which only just died (after having been given another lease of life for the past two years via an SSD transplant). I can assure you that neither he nor me would even remotely consider reusing that display... :rolleyes:

* in terms of being due for an upgrade, not their technical lifespan, which can be very different
 
Or you can buy the hub that I posted a link to for $75 and get Ethernet, 3 USB-A, HDMI and SD.
I can't fathom why Marco Arment wouldn't tell his listeners about such great products. But I have the feeling that he got it in his head somehow that Apple lost their way, and now looks at everything in that light.

Some time ago on the podcast, he was complaining about using his 12" MacBook. He was at a conference and wanted to use it for podcasting. He then complained he couldn't power it, and connect something else at the same time. Listening to that, I thought to myself, huh? You knew this in advance. The 12" MacBook is simply very limited in the connection department.

So one of the cohosts (Casey) asked him the extremely obvious question: why didn't you buy a hub? Answer: he looked on Amazon, but all of them had varying reviews.

Okay... so instead of doing something about it, and helping your listeners, you simply shrug off the solutions and continue complaining? When in fact there are actually great solutions, like the QalQoc one you pointed to.
 
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If the 13" gets released with the Intel's new 15w quad-core and a decent dGPU that would be a worthy upgrade. Though eGPU's may be where people get their horsepower for GPU demanding tech (AR/VR).
 
  • iPhone: $25 extra. I've got about 10 free USB cables from every iPhone.
  • Networking cable: $29 dongle. Already own USB dongle.
  • Monitor: $69 dongle on Apple's site. I've got at least spare HDMI cables lying around that came free with various devices over the years.
  • External HDD: $29.95 (x2) USB-C to USB Micro B cable
  • RAID: $49 Thunderbolt 3 USB-C to Thunderbolt 2 cable
  • Flash drive: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
  • External camera control: $19 dongle USB-C to USB Micro
  • USB Microphone: $19 dongle USB-C to USB
$288.90 + $2599 to get the cheapest 15" that matches the 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD I already have in my five year old machine and we're looking at $2,887.90 just to get a machine that Geekbenches 14500 vs 12000 for my 2012 retina machine and 10000 on my iPhone X. No freaking way man. That's nuts. If my MBP exploded tomorrow I'd rather get a refurb 2015 for $1500-1600 or take my chances on Craigslist for $1200-1300. Although honestly my iPad Pro has been slowly replacing it so I'd probably just get a 2017 5K iMac like I've got at work.
You can get there cheaper with a USB-C dock. You can also save about $100 by going third-party for the most simple cables and adaptors (Monoprice: USB-C to USB-A, ~$5, USB-C to Micro B, <$5). And since the MBP only has four USB-C ports, you can replace seven USB-C to other USB items with four USB-C to USB-A dongles plus the two non-USB dongles (Monitor: $69, RAID: $49) for a grand total of $140.

I also have not seen anybody saying that the MBP should have come with with four USB-A ports and TB2 ports on top of maybe two USB-C ports. Meaning even under the best scenario, that TB3 to TB2 adaptor is inevitable (unless you really think the MBP should have shipped with both TB3 and TB2 ports, I doubt any computer has both of those ports). And let's say under the best case scenario, the current MBP would be like the 2012-2015 MBPs (ie, like yours) with two USB-A ports, an HDMI port, the two TB ports upgraded to TB3 and the charging port also upgraded to TB3. In that scenario, you'd still need the $49 TB3 to TB2 adaptor. And comparing the current situation with your 2012 MBP (with two USB-A ports), to match that you'd need only two USB-C to USB-A adaptors. Thus the delta cost between the current configuration and your ideal one (only change being the TB2 ports upgraded to TB3), is only the HDMI adaptor and two USB-C to USB-A adaptors or $80.
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Some time ago on the podcast, he was complaining about using his 12" MacBook. He was at a conference and wanted to use it for podcasting. He then complained he couldn't power it, and connect something else at the same time. Listening to that, I thought to myself, huh? You knew this in advance. The 12" MacBook is simply very limited in the connection department.

So one of the cohosts (Casey) asked him the extremely obvious question: why didn't you buy a hub? Answer: he looked on Amazon, but all of them had varying reviews.
You can look at this from two different viewpoints. One is that only real downside is the outlay for a USB-C hub. The other is what Apple could have done differently without really compromising the migration to USB-C or the cost or space limitations of the 12" MB. Which is to add a second USB-C port. So, if both sides got of their high horse and Marco bought a USB-C hub and Apple added a second USB-C port, the situation would be drastically less dire.
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By making every iMac buyer buy an entirely new screen every time because the mini's lobotomized and the Mac Pro is stuck between floors.
What you are forced to do is to take a hit to the resale value for the individual components of an iMac (which would fetch higher prices if they could be sold individually). If a three-year old iMac screen is as good as new, it should fetch a resale value close to its original price. If it doesn't get this price, it means you payed for the same version of the screen more than you get for the old one.

You are also forced to upgrade several components in tandem, ie, you cannot upgrade just the CPU or just the GPU or just the storage (well that you can, at an extra service cost and with very limited options for the slotted SSD) or just the screen, or just the motherboard/case. But you have some flexibility as you can combine the same CPU with maybe two GPU options, two different screen options and several storage options as well as vice versa.
 
If the 13" gets released with the Intel's new 15w quad-core and a decent dGPU that would be a worthy upgrade. Though eGPU's may be where people get their horsepower for GPU demanding tech (AR/VR).
With the 13” I don’t think there’s enough room in the power budget to do that, I think the 28W quad-core with iGPU hits the sweet spot for more customers. Right now Apple only uses the 15W parts in the lower end 13” (non TouchBar) where we’re going unlikely to see quad-core, but it would be possible, though not with dGPU again due to power restrictions.

100% yes to the real horsepower coming from eGPU though, that’s the only way some users and developers are going to be able to satisfy their GPU/GPGPU requirements.
 
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USB-C is better. It’s reversible, delivers more power (faster charging), smaller, and supports faster transfers when Thunderbolt 3 is added.
So,
Reversible - don't care has little value.
More power - overkill, most add ons don't need more power and faster is not impactful across most add ons. Not all roads are freeways.
Smaller - yep… so not pressed for space as Apple shorts connectivity anyways.
Again with the faster - addressed, there will always be faster.
Don't get me wrong. I am not against USB-C being part of the connectivity picture as it does have benefits but to replace all connectivity with it is short sighted. People who take pictures and shoot video on cameras want the SD slot. I could go on.
 
Or you can buy the hub that I posted a link to for $75 and get Ethernet, 3 USB-A, HDMI and SD.
Or I could not buy anything because my five and a half year old machine is barely behind the latest models except in SSD speed and GPU. And quite frankly I don't notice a significant SSD difference between opening Photoshop, boot time or opening any big files on my MBP vs. my 2017 5K iMac at work. Though that may change when I upgrade my camera equipment soon, it still won't be as good as going from spinning drives to SSD. And when it comes to GPU, it would be nice to have some advanced OpenCL stuff, but my workflow doesn't use a lot of that and I don't game much on my MBP. It would be kind of nice to upgrade to a refurb 2015 machine though so I can get 4K at 60Hz, but I'm honestly probably going to buy a 5K iMac or iMac Pro for home use in 1-2 years unless that modular Mac Pro redesign starts at a more reasonable price and is easily upgradable.

This kind of gets back to the argument that the PC segment as a whole hasn't seen a lot of significant speed increases in recent years. I'm just wondering when Apple is going to come in and clean their clock with 32 core 7nm A-series chips that consume the same power as an i7.
 
I agree with him - the 2012-2015 design is the best ever. I've owned every iteration of the Powerbook/MacBook Pro from the Pismo to the 2017s, and the 2012-2015 models are simply better than all the others.
 
I'll take my current MBP any day.

USB-C means a single port to connect every device. No need for a different cable for networking, different for monitor, different for power, different for external hard drive, different for RAID.......
But... none of the devices you connect uses this port. Not even Apple's own phone or tablet. It's adapters everywhere
 
This kind of gets back to the argument that the PC segment as a whole hasn't seen a lot of significant speed increases in recent years. I'm just wondering when Apple is going to come in and clean their clock with 32 core 7nm A-series chips that consume the same power as an i7.
The problem there is that for most workloads, performance doesn’t improve just because more cores are available. A lot of applications programs won’t benefit past two cores, there’s just not enough concurrency or parallelism to take advantage of having many available cores. (Servers are a different story, and if you’re into server virtualization you can’t get enough cores.)

There are some things where having a lot of cores scales well, like video encoding for example. But for the large majority of what most people do, there’s not a lot of benefit to adding cores, past maybe 4-8.

And the cores you do have, you want the most work done per clock cycle, and you get that more with Intel/CISC than you do with ARM/RISC.

btw, in no way do I mean to minimize the accomplishments of Apple’s CPU/SoC development team, they’re doing incredible work and the A11 is amazing. But when people talk about Geekbench scores and Apple replacing Intel chips in MacBook Pro or iMac—it’s just an Apples to oranges comparison (no pun intended).

But it seems the A11 is roughly comparable to the 4.5W CPU in the 12” MacBook; there your looking at similar power dissipation numbers. I’m sure the A11 could beat the Intel chip in tasks that take advantage of its strengths, esp. if it had sufficient cooling to avoid thermal throttling.
 
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But... none of the devices you connect uses this port. Not even Apple's own phone or tablet. It's adapters everywhere

What are you talking about? My iPhone connects to my MBP using a Lightning to USB-C cable. My RAID has a UBS-C to USB-C cable. I have an external hard drive used for Time Machine which is also USB-C to USB-C. I have an older drive I use at times which has a USB-C to USB-A 3.1 cable connection it (no dongle needed). My monitors are also connected with a USB-C cable.
 
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What are you talking about? My iPhone connects to my MBP using a Lightning to USB-C cable. My RAID has a UBS-C to USB-C cable. I have an external hard drive used for Time Machine which is also USB-C to USB-C. I have an older drive I use at times which has a USB-C to USB-A 3.1 cable connection it (no dongle needed). My monitors are also connected with a USB-C cable.

I don’t understand why people repeat what the guy you replied to said. It’s like people are trained to repeat it without stopping to check if it actually makes any sense. It doesn’t.

none of the devices you connect uses this port. Not even Apple's own phone or tablet

They never used USB-A either. They were the 30 pin adapter, then lightning. They still are. Nothing changed but the other end of the cable.
 
It's a lot more simple than most people are arguing. The value proposition has deteriorated to a point where longtime Apple users just don't see the value in upgrading. Apple is pursuing form over function, and I don't think it's making people happy. I'd love to buy a new MacBook right now because I like having new toys, but with the new price tag and a barely noticeable difference against my 2015 rMBP I can't justify it.
 
It's a lot more simple than most people are arguing. The value proposition has deteriorated to a point where longtime Apple users just don't see the value in upgrading. Apple is pursuing form over function, and I don't think it's making people happy. I'd love to buy a new MacBook right now because I like having new toys, but with the new price tag and a barely noticeable difference against my 2015 rMBP I can't justify it.
It’s not form over function. Apple knows users value thin and light and powerful. That’s what they provide. Occasionally they courageously drop old ports :D

Mac sales have been basically flat from 2012 through 2017, averaging about 18.5MM units per year over that 6 year span.

2013 was a couple million units short of that at 16.3 million while 2015 was a couple over at 20.6MM. 2017 was 19.3MM units and Apple has indicated the increase over 2016 is due to stronger MBP sales.

Why the stagnation? Because Intel processors have shown only marginal improvement during that time? Cannibalization the last few years by iPad Pro? Your guess is as good as mine, but I’d bet Apple knows as they do plenty of market research.

And they will respond as best they can, because they do want to sell more Macs. Despite the doom and gloomers, Apple has not “given up on the Mac”. The new iMac Pros will be out next month, and Mac Pro and Mac mini will likely be out by this time next year. MBP is refreshed at least annually so we’ll have those too.
 
I personally don't think that USB-C is the future, I see USB-A being the dominant connector for a long time. They're everywhere, even in airplane seats.

Well I think USB-C is the future, so please give me at least one of those ports. However, as we're still living in the present day with heaps of USB-A gear around, I'd like to plug them in without dongles too. Why should future-proofing and practicality be mutually exclusive?
 
I still have my 2012 retina MacBook Pro i7 2.9ghz 512gb ssd 8gb ram I got in December 2012. I thought it was dying as it was running slower and Sierra caused lots of bugs, but high sierra actually caused it to get back to normal. It runs great now and I think will still be handle the next OS or two. I already had a usb Blu-Ray player before I got it, so I didn’t mind losing the built in optical drive. It also handles windows 10 Pro boot camp really well. Only reason to upgrade in near future is for the updated processors and more ram for a bit of gaming on steam
 
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