Marco Arment Argues the 2012—2015 MacBook Pro is 'Best Laptop That Has Ever Existed'

[Hanson Eigilson]

No. Jobs didn’t hand pick Sculley. His board forced him to pick a “pro” CEO
[.....]
The proper comparison to Tim Cook isn’t Steve Jobs but Steve Ballmer instead. There will only be one Bill Gates and there was only one Steve Jobs. Arguably Cook is doing a better job than Ballmer did.

Yes Jobs handpicked Scully and his pitch to him were "Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life? Or do you want to come with me and change the world?"
and he did it for good reasons like the board wanting "seasoned leadership" on the economic side of things. Turned out to he was a beancounting marketeer with no vision, big surprise there lol.
And Steve Ballmer really is a great comparison to John Scully, they both took over companies with an incredible momentum and market position, they are both without vision and they are both leaving or going to leave flailing companies behind running on hot steam. All they understand is beans, the rest is just a dog and pony show.

Steve Jobs:
When you’re a carpenter making a beautiful chest of drawers, you’re not going to use a piece of plywood on the back

And that's exactly what Apple has been doing for a while now, little pieces of plywood everywhere and products that goes nowhere. You mention the watch and it's a good example of a product under Cook, very nicely polished surface but underneath it's a different story of a processor with no battery running an OS glued together from unseemly parts of dubious origin.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Don’t understand what the big deal is. You can purchase one small dock that fits onto the side of the notebook, which offers USB, an SD card slot and HDMI. When you don’t need them, don’t plug it in - problem solved.

 

[Michael Scrip]

2012-2015 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-A to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB1/2 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: mDP to DP or HDMI to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB3-A to USB-3B or TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable
- RAID: TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable

2016-2017 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-C to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB3 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: USB-C to DP or USB-C to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB-C to USB-C or TB3 to TB3 cable
- RAID: TB3 to TB3 cable

You need the same number of unique cables or adaptors for both types of MBP. Sure, these are new cables and you might need additional cables/adaptors for older peripherals (USB-C to USB-B cable, USB-C to USB-A adaptor, TB3 to TB2 adaptor) but the same was true for older peripherals five years ago (USB2-A to USB2-B, TB1/2 to FW800, FW800 to FW400). If you think that nobody should be forced to buy new cables or adaptors, than we still should have VGA, DVI, and FW ports.

Exactly. Thank you for listing it all out. I should bookmark your post for the next time someone complains about adapters/dongles.

People seem to forget that you've always needed something to connect one thing to another.

Yeah... they might change every so often... but it's not as bad as it seems.

 

[Kulfon]

What do you mean by "professional"? I am a proessional and managing a multi-million dollar business. To me, mac and a mouse is a tool that helps me. Just a tool. The lack of ports and dongles is a distraction.
My second hat is that I am a photographer too, as a hobby. This is where I totally love the 2015 mac because it has ports and an sd card slot.

What more professional you need?

Do you remember your first replay to my comment?

I've been asking these "professionals": "Show me the device you cannot connect, a professional one". Still waiting for an answer...
Can you connect iPhone X to the 2017 MBP?

Is there something about additional cables?
I am still waiting for the answer.

 

[davie18]

"almost none of us needed to buy external optical drives or Ethernet adapters to fit the new laptop into our lives"

w...a...t

I'd say very few people use ethernet ports on laptops for personal usage. You reslly think more than a small minority use it?

 

[mrzz]

100% agree that the latest MPBs are just getting worse and are definitely not the best laptops Apple has produced.

 

[Kulfon]

It is only 50% true. If you but a 2017 mbp and iPhone x, there is no cable in the box of either devises that allows to connect. To be accurate, please add "additional cable that you need to purchase"

2012-2015 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-A to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB1/2 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: mDP to DP or HDMI to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB3-A to USB-3B or TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable
- RAID: TB1/2 to TB1/2 cable

2016-2017 MBP:
- iPhone: USB-C to Lightning cable
- Networking: TB3 to Ethernet adaptor
- Monitor: USB-C to DP or USB-C to HDMI cable
- External HDD: USB-C to USB-C or TB3 to TB3 cable
- RAID: TB3 to TB3 cable

You need the same number of unique cables or adaptors for both types of MBP. Sure, these are new cables and you might need additional cables/adaptors for older peripherals (USB-C to USB-B cable, USB-C to USB-A adaptor, TB3 to TB2 adaptor) but the same was true for older peripherals five years ago (USB2-A to USB2-B, TB1/2 to FW800, FW800 to FW400). If you think that nobody should be forced to buy new cables or adaptors, than we still should have VGA, DVI, and FW ports.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Don’t understand what the big deal is. You can purchase one small dock that fits onto the side of the notebook, which offers USB, an SD card slot and HDMI. When you don’t need them, don’t plug it in - problem solved.

they have nowhere near the reliability when you connect different gear to them at different places compared to "legacy" ports. Sometimes you have to first connect the monitor to the doc, then doc to laptop then power then etc etc etc in different orders or different docs, sometimes it does not work at all and sometimes it fries (mostly other people's) stuff. is it doable yes, is it anywhere near the promised utopia, NO.

 

[Geurt]

Marco Arment, a developer best known for co-founding Tumblr and creating apps Instapaper and Overcast, believes the 2012 to 2015 era 15-inch MacBook Pro is "the best laptop that has ever existed."

2015 15-inch MacBook Pro​

"Introduced in 2012, less than a year after Steve Jobs died, I see it as the peak of Jobs' vision for the Mac," said Arment in a blog post this week.

The 2012 model was the first MacBook Pro with a Retina display, and had a much slimmer design compared to previous models after Apple removed the built-in Ethernet port and optical disc drive for CDs/DVDs.

Apple refreshed the 2012 model in each of the following three years, but kept the external design largely the same.

Arment sees value in the 2012 to 2015 model's array of connectivity options, including a pair of Thunderbolt and USB-A ports, an HDMI port, a SD card slot, and a MagSafe power adapter that breaks away safely if it's tripped over.

2015 15-inch MacBook Pro​

By comparison, the 2016 and later MacBook Pro has two or four Thunderbolt 3 ports that handle power, USB, DisplayPort, HDMI, and VGA, resulting in Apple removing dedicated USB-A, HDMI, SD card, and MagSafe connectivity from the notebook.

He added that the 2012-2015 keyboard has a "crowd-pleasing design" and that the trackpad strikes a "great balance between size and usability."

2016 and later MacBook Pro models have a slimmer keyboard with a second-generation butterfly mechanism that has less key travel than 2012-2015 models, and a larger trackpad that is closer to the keyboard.

Apple packed a smaller 76 watt-hour battery pack into the latest MacBook Pro models, and while the notebooks are rated for up to 10 hours of battery life between charges, there were several early complaints in real-world usage.

All of these changes generated some controversy within the Apple community, particularly among professionals, so Arment's opinion is sure to resonate with some users, including among customers who refuse to upgrade.

Despite some early complaints, however, the MacBook Pro appears to be selling very well for Apple. In fact, Apple CEO Tim Cook said the Mac set a new all-time revenue record of $25.8 billion in the 2017 fiscal year, with sales fueled primarily by "great demand" for the MacBook Pro in particular.For now, Apple continues to sell the 2015 15-inch MacBook Pro in a single configuration with a 2.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor, 16GB of RAM, 256GB of SSD storage, and integrated Intel Iris Pro graphics for $1,999 in the United States.

Full Article: "The best laptop ever made" by Marco Arment

Article Link: Marco Arment Argues the 2012--2015 MacBook Pro is 'Best Laptop That Has Ever Existed'

I don’t agree. My personal opinion is that the current model isn’t better by definition, as it’s usability is less than the previous model. In certain situations, native connectivity options are missed. My use-cases only involve an incidental hdmi interface, but most of the time I am wireless. And in that situation, all these ports of the old model are waste. But for people who have to rely on cabled technology I can understand their opinions, sometimes it is not possible to move on without heavy investments in your eco-system. On the other hand, that is not Apple’s fault ;-)
[doublepost=1510822586][/doublepost]

they have nowhere near the reliability when you connect different gear to them at different places compared to "legacy" ports. Sometimes you have to first connect the monitor to the doc, then doc to laptop then power then etc etc etc in different orders or different docs, sometimes it does not work at all and sometimes it fries (mostly other people's) stuff. is it doable yes, is it anywhere near the promised utopia, NO.

Then you have the wrong hub as what you state is just as true for native ports. The problem is we all want to solve this by buying a hub for a few dollars, we should expect Apple to build one instead. But that will probably never happen, and for that reason I sympathize with your opinion (which of course is of no value ).

 

[USB-Adapter]

pros:

1. cpu & gpu
2. weight & size
3. thunderbolt 3

cons:

1. force touch trackpad
2. keyboard
3. lack of ports

gonna stick with my early 2013 pro

 

[anthorumor]

Agreed. The 2014 MacBook Pro was the best Apple I've ever owned. All we wish for Apple to do now is release a 'MacBook Pro SE', and let the numbers speak for themselves come quarterly sales results.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Then you have the wrong hub as what you state is just as true for native ports. The problem is we all want to solve this by buying a hub for a few dollars, we should expect Apple to build one instead. But that will probably never happen, and for that reason I sympathize with your opinion (which of course is of no value ).

Apple's dongles are not that good in the first place, they recalled their first USB-C cable and it really is not true for native ports to the same degree at all, with USB-C/thunderbolt dongles/hubs there is just so many more layers of complexity, but your sympathy is going to warm my heart when i stand im the clown doing the dongle-juggle.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Thunderbolt 3 alone tips the scales in favor of the current models, for me. The ability to use external enclosures for whatever PCIe 3.0 card you might need, at twice the speed of TB2, trumps the convenience of built in ports.

Need a 1080 ti for CUDA support? What about ML? 40Gb Ethernet? RAID controller, fibre channel, pro audio, high-end video capture cards... lots of specialized uses and four TB3 ports is an insane amount of I/O. Not all pro uses are equal, you probably don’t have any use for any of that (at least not right now).

But I’d hate to be stuck with only TB2 for the next 5 or 6 years. It all depends on your requirements, like pretty much any computer purchase. But if I were buying today, I’d get the newer machine.

 

[joiwomcow]

Just because revenue is up doesn't mean sales are up. The new macbooks are a lot more expensive than the old ones. Doubtless the profit margins are a lot higher.
Imagine the power of the 2015 design with modern chips and cards....

 

[PickUrPoison]

Just because revenue is up doesn't mean sales are up. The new macbooks are a lot more expensive than the old ones. Doubtless the profit margins are a lot higher.
Imagine the power of the 2015 design with modern chips and cards....

From the financials: number of units sold was up 10%, revenue was up 25%.

 

[uroshnor]

I’m partial to my 17” 2011 matte screen MacBook Pro — THAT was the best laptop ever produced.

Second that. A 17” matt screen i7 quad core with SSD was the best laptop I’ve ever had .

I knocked back every replacement machine work offered me until the speed bumped Touchbar MBP.

 

[Reason077]

I'll take my current MBP any day.

USB-C means a single port to connect every device. No need for a different cable for networking, different for monitor, different for power, different for external hard drive, different for RAID.......

But the flaw with USB-C is that you still do need different cables for different tasks! The one that came with your MacBook's power adapter, for example, can't support DisplayPort or USB 3 signals. So don't try using it to connect to your monitor or external HDD.

And the one that came with your external HDD doesn't support high power levels, so you can't use it for charging.

But which cable does which? Hard to tell without trying them... there's no real visible difference.

That said, I am very happy with my 2017 MBP. Though I do miss MagSafe a bit, mainly because of the way the cable could be wound up so neatly, leaving my bag neat and tidy! Now it's always a tangle of messy cables and dongles

 

[akbarali.ch]

I’m partial to my 17” 2011 matte screen MacBook Pro — THAT was the best laptop ever produced.

We had that briefly, bought used one, worked great. Now on macbook air 2017.

 

[Koh Phi Phi]

I agree with him.

I believe the 2012 model was a better laptop (for 2012 standards) than the 2016 model (for 2016 standards).

 

[Blackstick]

We’ve got nearly 1,000 Mid 2015 15” MacBook pros at work in service. Haven’t seen much on the 2016 class to make us buy those until Apple offers no option. Which will probably come soon.

 

[smirking]

That and I've used the new models a number of times and the keyboard still bothers me as does the lack of ports for me personally. But that's just one mans opinion.

If the keyboard is your defining issue, just upgrade. It truly sucks at first, but you get used to it amazingly fast and I say this as a hardcore mechanical switch keyboard enthusiast with close to two dozen keyboards in my collection.

I like the 2016 a lot. I have my issues with it, but the one I expected to be a deal breaker ended up being just fine. I’ve come to like the feel of it over the previous editions.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

But the flaw with USB-C is that you still do need different cables for different tasks! The one that came with your MacBook's power adapter, for example, can't support DisplayPort or USB 3 signals. So don't try using it to connect to your monitor or external HDD.

And the one that came with your external HDD doesn't support high power levels, so you can't use it for charging.

But which cable does which? Hard to tell without trying them... there's no real visible difference.

and you might want to use low power cables to charge your stuff on some chargers else they get toasty and on and on.
It's not too bad if your mac stay's at the desk, but if your macbook is mobile it's easily a magical circus i do the dongle-juggle it doesn't make me feel like the happy kinda clown.

 

[mainstreetmark]

Neither of my touchbar macs ever came close to "10 hours". Never came close to half that number. I get 4.5 hours browsing reddit. Conversely, my "10 hour" macbook air I could take on field service trips without a power supply. Also, this touchbar mac reboots itself about once every two days.

 

[manu chao]

It is only 50% true. If you but a 2017 mbp and iPhone x, there is no cable in the box of either devises that allows to connect. To be accurate, please add "additional cable that you need to purchase"

I acknowledged that you most likely have to get new cables, but once they are purchased, you don't need a larger number of different cables [to carry around with you] than what you needed before (you might need more depending on how many different older peripherals you have).

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

I acknowledged that you most likely have to get new cables, but once they are purchased, you don't need a larger number of different cables [to carry around with you] than what you needed before (you might need more depending on how many different older peripherals you have).

dongle for SD cards, ethernet different hdmi dongles because they simply do not work for the same screens + all the stuff i could assume were already at destination and ready to plug in.