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Merom Laptops Delayed Until 2007?

HecubusPro said:
People will come and go, but there are definitely a lot more people who have switched over to mac since they began using Intel chips.

What doesn't make sense to me is the idea of updating a consumer model machine with the latest chip technology and not updating the professional line MBP's. They're supposed to be the Pro machines, hence their name, therefore, I believe, they should act the part and be professional based, incorporated with the latest tech. MBP's in my estimation, will adopt merom in the next few weeks. It just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. Not that apple should design their business decisions based upon my conceptions.
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YES - YES - you have stated the core of my confusion and disappointment. Apple has gobs of cash reserves and can afford top flight engineers to add the magnetic closure, fast swap hard drive bay, and better cooling. That can not take that much time given two of those three features have been out in MacBook for some time. The MBP was announced on January 10, 2006. It has been fully over 8 months and all we have seen is a correction of some Rev A flaws and a pathetic speed bump from 1.8/2.0 > 2.0/2.16.

I am really at a loss as to what the real problem is. For all of us Mac lovers we view "Think Different" as thinking better (and faster). How and why is Apple leaving the pro notebook customer in this situation??? At some time an announcement will be made - but this has been a bummer: pre-WWDC, WWDC, every Tuesday since then, the September 5 shipment rumor, Mac Expo looking questionable now, etc., etc, etc. Photokina on the 26th????

Christmas is only 14 weeks away - who knows??? Then MacWorld.
 
Apple Corps said:
Christmas is only 14 weeks away - who knows??? Then MacWorld.
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I've had nothing but PC's, mostly because I either game or ssh into a unix box. I wanted to run a lot of my Unix apps on my own laptop for a while, mostly for coding (and because I think doing things the GUI way is evil oftentimes and just want my shell, and Cygwin can suck it). Apple has a lot of great, cool, stuff that I would like (not to mention the best looking OS ever). That won't keep me waiting forever.

I have to say, Apple will not get me if they don't release it soon. I know, I've heard, they aren't behind yet because they haven't NOT shipped before anyone else, but how many preordered C2D dells, et al. are there that could have been Apple? We'll never know. Either way, I need to replace my aging laptop and I'll take the first open source friendly c2d I can find if the 26th arrives and there's nothing new.
 
rtharper said:
I've had nothing but PC's, mostly because I either game or ssh into a unix box. I wanted to run a lot of my Unix apps on my own laptop for a while, mostly for coding (and because I think doing things the GUI way is evil oftentimes and just want my shell, and Cygwin can suck it). Apple has a lot of great, cool, stuff that I would like (not to mention the best looking OS ever). That won't keep me waiting forever.

I have to say, Apple will not get me if they don't release it soon. I know, I've heard, they aren't behind yet because they haven't NOT shipped before anyone else, but how many preordered C2D dells, et al. are there that could have been Apple? We'll never know. Either way, I need to replace my aging laptop and I'll take the first open source friendly c2d I can find if the 26th arrives and there's nothing new.
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exactly. also think about anyone comparing whats out right now who doesnt really care which OS they use. they see dells and such on core 2, and apple still playing with their yonah's. im sure at least some are swayed by this.
 
Apple Corps said:
YES - YES - you have stated the core of my confusion and disappointment. Apple has gobs of cash reserves and can afford top flight engineers to add the magnetic closure, fast swap hard drive bay, and better cooling. That can not take that much time given two of those three features have been out in MacBook for some time. The MBP was announced on January 10, 2006. It has been fully over 8 months and all we have seen is a correction of some Rev A flaws and a pathetic speed bump from 1.8/2.0 > 2.0/2.16.

I am really at a loss as to what the real problem is. For all of us Mac lovers we view "Think Different" as thinking better (and faster). How and why is Apple leaving the pro notebook customer in this situation??? At some time an announcement will be made - but this has been a bummer: pre-WWDC, WWDC, every Tuesday since then, the September 5 shipment rumor, Mac Expo looking questionable now, etc., etc, etc. Photokina on the 26th????

Christmas is only 14 weeks away - who knows??? Then MacWorld.
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I totally agree...its strange that they have forgotten about pro laptops for several months...there must be an upgrade soon...
 
Reach said:
Norwegian Apple store been saying 7 days for quite som e time, 5-7 days at the US store. Apple has even stated they are looking for another plant to manufacture Macbooks due to them being unable to keep ut with demand,
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CNBC reports today Apple "likely" to release an iPhone in 3-6 months.

They say Apple is looking for a second MacBook manufacturing supplier to keep up with demand.

They say Apple will release new Nanos and a new movie download service tomorrow. Some talk about a widescreen iPod but even to them it is speculation.

They received an invitation and will have timely coverage.

Steve has appeared on CNBC following events a couple of times before.

Rocketman
 
splintah said:
putting the lowest voltage / coolest / fastest chips in a product like the imac

but keeping the old, hotter, slower processor in the MBP
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Merom isn't any cooler than Yonah and at peak uses more power.
 
bluetorch18 said:
Merom is cooler, and has better battery life...I don't know if it uses more power or not.
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No, Merom is equivalent to Yonah at idle. Every review I've seen puts it level or well within the margin of error - tho I don't think I saw any where it was lower, only a degree or two higher.

It draws the same amount of power, it's on the same process, and the arch is derivative. At peak, it's slightly hotter. Check the Intel thermals specs, Yonah's TDP is 31W, Merom's is 34W. None of the enhancements deal with power management -- the biggies like the ability to flush and disable L2 are all in Yonah, many others such as variable voltage/clockspeed date back to the Pentium Mobile.

Based on all that, it's not going to magically get cooler.

Regarding power, at idle it's equivalent, at peak - unsurprisingly for a more complex part, it's usually slightly higher -- depending on exact workload.

SIMD work is a classic example where it will push draw higher but complete faster.

Of course, there's direct correlation to power draw and heat.

Battery life difference is generally negligable, and almost certainly accounted for by Merom completing tasks and returining to low-power sleep states much more quickly.

Intel's big claim for Merom is it's 20% faster for the same power draw.

Take a look at the Anandtech review for one example of many - it shows the idle (and, as it happens, peak) power draw to be identical.
 
ergle2 said:
No, Merom is equivalent to Yonah at idle. Every review I've seen puts it level or well within the margin of error - tho I don't think I saw any where it was lower, only a degree or two higher.

It draws the same amount of power, it's on the same process, and the arch is derivative. At peak, it's slightly hotter. Check the Intel thermals specs, Yonah's TDP is 31W, Merom's is 34W. None of the enhancements deal with power management -- the biggies like the ability to flush and disable L2 are all in Yonah, many others such as variable voltage/clockspeed date back to the Pentium Mobile.

Based on all that, it's not going to magically get cooler.

Regarding power, at idle it's equivalent, at peak - unsurprisingly for a more complex part, it's usually slightly higher -- depending on exact workload.

SIMD work is a classic example where it will push draw higher but complete faster.

Of course, there's direct correlation to power draw and heat.

Battery life difference is generally negligable, and almost certainly accounted for by Merom completing tasks and returining to low-power sleep states much more quickly.

Intel's big claim for Merom is it's 20% faster for the same power draw.

Take a look at the Anandtech review for one example of many - it shows the idle (and, as it happens, peak) power draw to be identical.
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im not concerned with the speed increase. im concerned with the 64 bit architecture.
 
HecubusPro said:
I hope we at least have the option to upgrade to an x1800. That would make me happy. :) See?
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If apple wants to remain competitive, their flagship notebooks need to come standard with x1800.
 
While a x1800 would certainly make me über happy too, 64 bit can matter tomorrow (or as soon as I get a machine and adjust some code to make use of it). You're right that Photoshop probably isn't going to make use of it for a couple years, but custom developed apps can in very short order.

appleintelrock said:
64 bit wont matter for a few years... I'm excited about the x1800 :)
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ckodonnell said:
While a x1800 would certainly make me über happy too, 64 bit can matter tomorrow (or as soon as I get a machine and adjust some code to make use of it). You're right that Photoshop probably isn't going to make use of it for a couple years, but custom developed apps can in very short order.
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I was speaking more on a broad basis. I agree that there will be some things that'll take advantage of 64 bit right away, but for the most part, it'll take a while .
 
Yeah, I agree. It's a big company thing. The shareware/OSS folks will support this stuff pretty fast I think.

appleintelrock said:
I was speaking more on a broad basis. I agree that there will be some things that'll take advantage of 64 bit right away, but for the most part, it'll take a while .
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matttrick said:
im not concerned with the speed increase. im concerned with the 64 bit architecture.
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... which has absolutely nothing to do with what I was posting.
 
appleintelrock said:
64 bit wont matter for a few years... I'm excited about the x1800 :)
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For x86, 64bit matters now, if for no other reason it doubles the number of directly accessible registers.

Edit: speelink
 
ergle2 said:
... which has absolutely nothing to do with what I was posting.
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nope not at all :rolleyes:

Intel's big claim for Merom is it's 20% faster for the same power draw.

Take a look at the Anandtech review for one example of many - it shows the idle (and, as it happens, peak) power draw to be identical.
Click to expand...

anyway...

64 bit wont matter for a few years... I'm excited about the x1800
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i know it wont matter for probably another year or 2. but guess what. ill likely still have that same laptop for around 4. so yes, it is a big consideration.
 
matttrick said:
nope not at all :rolleyes:
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Ah, quote mining. My post wasn't about who was waiting for what, it was demonstrating a point, which has nothing to do with what you, I or anyone else personally wants, hence your comment being a non-sequitur.

So, that's one out-of-context quote of mine and one where you quote someone else (and had you responded to that, your original response actually would have made sense). Brilliant! Not.
 
HecubusPro said:
The Core 2 Duo does have longer battery life, it runs cooler, and it's faster than it's predecessor. Have a look...
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=288&type=expert&pid=1

and...
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808
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In reverse order:

- the second URL is one I already posted.
- it contradicts the first one on battery life tests.
- both URLs agree that power draw is similar. Some other sites say Merom is slightly higher at load, and Intel certainly thinks Merom is hotter under load, see TDPs.
- the temperature at idle is equivalent on both processors -- which was my original point (the differences are well with any margin of error).
- at load there's a slight decrease, which is somewhat inconsistent with the power draw, but could be explained by other factors that the article doesn't discuss (themal paste application, if load was sustained or a series of peaks which would definitely favor merom, etc. )

I've seen other reviews that were more in line with the Anandtech review. That, along with Intel's only real stated claim that it's 20% faster compared to Core when all else is equal pushes me to believe they're the more accurate here.

So, the only thing the reviews agree on entirely is Merom is faster -- something I've never disputed. There's certainly no question it's a better processor.

I would be delighted if I were wrong, however, and I'll be keeping an open mind on the subject.
 
appleintelrock said:
If apple wants to remain competitive, their flagship notebooks need to come standard with x1800.
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Agreed. And a 160gig HD.

Boy, I hope these laptops get updated soon.
 
appleintelrock said:
If apple wants to remain competitive, their flagship notebooks need to come standard with x1800.
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and more than a puny half gig of ram as well
 
grum said:
and more than a puny half gig of ram as well
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It's just the cheapo that comes with 512mb, both the 2,16's come with 1gb. :)
I'd like a bigger HD though, I'd love a little more than 100gb at 7200.
 
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