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Veri

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2007
611
0
Why? He was named King of Pop in the early 1980s and did nothing substantially (musically speaking) after that.
Many of his videos through the '80s and early '90s showed him to be a master of theatrical performance to rival Queen, Elvis or Hitler; but while these three acted with the voices of cynicism and experience, Jackson's imagination produced a curiously child-like combination of yearning for adoration and positively channeled tantrum. His resounding message was the celebration of platonic love and honest expression of pain, a polar opposite to the choking hypocritical attrition of more subtle artists such as Lennon(*).

rather than becoming a has-been who had nothing left to give the world than walking backwards and scratching his balls whilst not touring for the last 12 years.
He lived and died more talented, more loved, and more rich than all his detractors, joining a very small group of artists to have enjoyed such a span of continued popularity. He attracts bitter invective because he was the performer who would not, and perhaps could not, adapt to the world. All such men are hated by those who cannot bear to accept that admitting an alternative outlook might reveal their own weaknesses.

(*) Lennon was also a great artist, but I perceive no honesty in his performance.
 

50548

Guest
Apr 17, 2005
5,039
2
Currently in Switzerland
his lip sync knowledge was pretty good though. :)

Yep, I have to agree...as a wunderkind and a great young pop star, he did a lot; but pretty much anything after that was irrelevant, not to say ridiculously over the top.

I still remember when he visited Rio to shoot a video for the They Don't Care About Us or something like that...with a mask to avoid "germ contamination". Or the widely "acclaimed" presence in MTV Music Awards 1995 with Slash, where he sang just like Britney Spears...via playback. A sense of humility and down-to-Earth attitude would help sometimes, you know...
 

Veri

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2007
611
0
with a mask to avoid "germ contamination"
World, meet mental illness. It's like "physical" illness, only with a stigma attached to it which blinds onlookers to the qualities of the human suffering from it.
 

50548

Guest
Apr 17, 2005
5,039
2
Currently in Switzerland
World, meet mental illness. It's like "physical" illness, only with a stigma attached to it which blinds onlookers to the qualities of the human suffering from it.

I am sure you will add the "mask" to that as well...a great token of ignorance, prejudice and presumption that "your" environment is better and cleaner than the other's.

Great music until the 80s, sung (?) by a freaky and megalomaniacal man...let's just leave it at that before things get worse.

p.s.: and no, I am not talking about pedophilia, even if it might be true...after all, he was acquitted; not to mention that most of the accusations reek of exploitation of the unethical American judicial system by deranged Moms.
 

E.Lizardo

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2008
1,776
305
Why? He was named King of Pop in the early 1980s and did nothing substantially (musically speaking) after that.

I'd give him respect if he lived up to the title by gifting us with excellent music after Thriller, rather than becoming a has-been who had nothing left to give the world than walking backwards and scratching his balls whilst not touring for the last 12 years. Or even releasing some decent new songs.

Musically, he should have stopped after Off the Wall or Thriller. Just my two cents.

He got no respect from me since he named HIMSELF "The King of Pop"and contractually required MTV to call him that every time his name was mentioned.Also no one will convince me he did not molest children.I do pity him for the fact that due to his money and fame none of his family or supposed friends even tried to get him help for his obviously severe mental illness.As the old saying goes,regular folks go crazy,the rich and powerful are eccentric.

On a more general note,I'll never understand the part of the human psyche that makes people suddenly buy music by a person after he dies,when they wouldn't have given it a second thought two minutes earlier.

"He's Dead???Get me to the record store quick!I must suddenly and inexplicably have all his music!"
 

Full of Win

macrumors 68030
Nov 22, 2007
2,615
1
Ask Apple
Here's a little excerpt:

In August 1998 the Arvizo family were detained on a shoplifting charge at a J. C. Penney department store in West Covina, California. According to J. C. Penney, Gavin and Star Arvizo were sent out of the store by their father with an armload of stolen clothes, the family was detained and Janet started a "scuffle" with security officers. The shoplifting charge was dropped, but Janet filed a lawsuit for $3 million, saying that when she was detained she was "viciously beaten" by three security officers, one of whom was female.[8] The psychiatrist hired by J. C. Penney to evaluate Janet Arvizo found her to have rehearsed her children into supporting her story and to be both "delusional" and "depressed," although Janet's own doctor found her to be only the latter.[8] More than two years after the original alleged incident Janet added a further charge that one of the male officers had "sexually fondled" her breasts and pelvis area for "up to seven minutes".[8] Ultimately the department store settled out of court with the family for $137,000.[8]


So I guess everyone who settles is always guilty huh? :rolleyes: If you ever get embroiled in a legal case try not to get too stressed out when it costs you an arm and a leg every hour - it's much easier for a corporation or a celebrity to settle than go through the whole process of courts - it's embarassing, a waste of time and certainly a waste of a LOT of money.

The accuser has nothing to lose - they know that the defendant has enough money to want to settle.

But again, I'm appalled at how many people won't simply pay some respect for someone who has died - if you don't have any respect, then the least people could do is just be quiet and let people pay their respects.

What a world..

Is there a point to this? What does this have to do with the King of Child Molestation?
 

Xil3

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2007
185
87
London
Great, a personal insult. Another so-called MJ fan stressed out from hearing the truth.

1. Fan is short for fanatic. Read up on Nietzsche's view on fanatics.
2. I bet you can't find and/or understand it. No MD that I ever came across (and I come across many, since my M.Sc are in Epidemiology and Human Biology and my Ph.D. is in Movement Sciences) ever struck me as an intelligent fellow. The lack of basic critical scientific thinking in Med School is hilarious.

But then overrating fits you perfectly, MJ-fan. It reflects your intellectual abilities and musical taste. Live with it and do some practical things in ER and compose some work in Garageband. Leave to hard critical thinking and the creation of real music through the use of real instruments to people equipped to do that. You're not one of them.


I think it's a bit excessive to call us fanatics - have you ever read the definition of a fanatic? And 'fan' is not short for fanatic, they are 2 different words, one being more critical than the other.

fanatic adj : marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea; "rabid isolationist" n : a person motivated by irrational enthusiasm (as for a cause); "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"--Winston Churchill

I still don't understand why you find it necessary to come here and attempt to stir up peoples emotions? This was just a nostalgic moment for most - let it be!

I consider myself a minor fan of MJ (definitely not a fanatic, as you so put it), but I do believe that he deserves to have people standing up for him. Nobody is perfect, but he accomplished a lot more than most in life.

I'm not going to attack you personally, but I will label you as a troll, and your argument wasn't at all factual. It was based on your own opinion, which was fueled by the media, and again didn't need to come out.
 

E.Lizardo

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2008
1,776
305
, it's just sad that all the abuse claims had to come up over the last several years. Nobody but one person will ever know if they were true and he is gone now.

Actually there are quite a few present and former victims and employees who know.Expect an avalanche of books soon.
 

E.Lizardo

macrumors 68000
May 28, 2008
1,776
305
And I'll remember you as one of those lemmings, not for the unique individual they are, but for their lemming type actions.

1. Listing to the BS the media fed to them and acceping it 100%
2. Not having a mind of their own.
3. Ignoring the fact that he defined pop music and only looking at the negative aspects that the media dictated.
4. Being a general brainless lemming :)

This is the ultimate mind blowing irony.While the media and a large percentage of the public is convulsing in an orgasm of grief and love for MJ,someone who actually looks at him realistically is called a lemming.

Absolutely priceless!

And slightly nauseating.
 

guklein

macrumors 6502a
Oct 8, 2008
591
0
I want to buy an album for me...Which is the best choise for me (causual fan)?

Essential Collection, The Ultimate Collection, Thriller or Number Ones?

Thanks.
 

Xil3

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2007
185
87
London
This is the ultimate mind blowing irony.While the media and a large percentage of the public is convulsing in an orgasm of grief and love for MJ,someone who actually looks at him realistically is called a lemming.

Absolutely priceless!

And slightly nauseating.

Realistically? How do you define realistically? Are you referring to the way the media portrayed him as a child molester?

You have no facts - media propaganda doesn't equal fact.
 

Veri

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2007
611
0
You have no facts - media propaganda doesn't equal fact.
Indeed. If the media can portray X as they please, they can portray you as they please. If it hasn't happened already, you're just not relevant enough for anyone to benefit from generating a particular perception of you.
 

Xil3

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2007
185
87
London
Indeed. If the media can portray X as they please, they can portray you as they please. If it hasn't happened already, you're just not relevant enough for anyone to benefit from generating a particular perception of you.

What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about MJ, not myself.

As soon as you start attacking me as a person, then that's a whole new ballgame.

Lets keep it relevant and on topic...
 

Veri

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2007
611
0
What does that have to do with anything? We're talking about MJ, not myself.
You've completely misinterpreted my post. If I was being unclear, I apologise.

I am agreeing strongly with your point above, by indicating that just as the media can portray MJ as a child molester / SJ as a liver stealer / Mother Teresa as a baby-eater, if they want, they can do the same to me, you, or anyone. So it would be best for me (or you, or anyone) not to put much weight on personal accusations by the popular media on emotional topics, for their next target might be me (or you, or anyone).

If it sells enough papers or flows enough money in the desired direction, and the risk is not too high, you/I will be next. Our best defence is merely our low profile.
 

Xil3

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2007
185
87
London
You've completely misinterpreted my post. If I was being unclear, I apologise.

I am agreeing strongly with your point above, by indicating that just as the media can portray MJ as a child molester / SJ as a liver stealer / Mother Teresa as a baby-eater, if they want, they can do the same to me, you, or anyone. So it would be best for me (or you, or anyone) not to put much weight on personal accusations by the popular media on emotional topics, for their next target might be me (or you, or anyone).

If it sells enough papers or flows enough money in the desired direction, and the risk is not too high, you/I will be next. Our best defence is merely our low profile.

Ah, I'm sorry Veri, I apologise :(
 

sushi

Moderator emeritus
Jul 19, 2002
15,639
3
キャンプスワ&#
I thought it was worth capturing.

Top iTunes albums:
Awesome.

Not many artists have 9 albums, let alone 9 at the top at any given time.

Top ten music videos :D
:)

It's what I would have done. Why go through the trial when you know you're innocent, when you can just settle and have it all go away?
Exactly.

To save your reputation?

Innocent people don't pay hush money.
Hopefully someday you will understand why individuals don't bother to try to save their reputations and that innocent people do pay hush money, as you call it, because it is cheaper for them and has less impact on their lives.

Being in court and dragging yourself through the legal system can be a trying experience -- even when you are innocent.

What you need to realize is that there many times there are no winners, but one side looses less than the other.
 

WinterMute

Moderator emeritus
Jan 19, 2003
4,776
5
London, England
He had a huge, HUGE influence on all musicians. His production skills were unmatched - but you wouldn't know anything about that because you're not a musician. MY inspiration was MJ when I first heard his album, I couldn't believe the sounds, the techniques, the whole smack*in*my*face wall of music. The fact that it could make me, my grandma, kids on the street instantly jump and groove was phenomenal.

The fact that every person on the planet knows his music should say something.

He had no influence on me or many of the musicians I work with, his music was crafted by Quincy Jones, his songs by Quincy and Ted Templeton, I'm sure he had a hand in them, but only those who were there at the time really know who did what, and you know how these things get distorted after the fact.

Nothing of the production of Michael Jackson's music interested me, I found the electronic sound palatte he employed to be limited and whilst his latter work relied heavily on the rock guitar (my area of interest) I never felt that sticking Slash or EVH on a pop track amounted to "genuis". I am a musician, you know my expertise, please don't be so quick to claim all musicians as your allies in this matter.

Not every person on the planet knows his music, and of those who do many do not care for it.
 

sushi

Moderator emeritus
Jul 19, 2002
15,639
3
キャンプスワ&#
Wow, you make it sound SO easy to continue making chart topping music year after year. Why don't you pick up a keyboard (synth) and try to make anything that can make it in the top 100?
You make a good point.

MJ has created many songs that are liked around the world. Not many musicians can claim that. :)
 

WinterMute

Moderator emeritus
Jan 19, 2003
4,776
5
London, England
You make a good point.

There are some on this and other threads that believe MJ's music is not good. That it lacks in some way. That theirs is much better. Then again, I wonder how many of these critics have sold a fraction of the music that MJ sold?

Bottom line, MJ has created many songs that are liked around the world. Not many musicians can claim that. :)

That he has sold shed-loads of product is undeniably true, that he was an influential musician and performer is also undeniable. However, sales are not the only indication of successful work, in fact they are often an indication merely of successful marketing. I've yet to read of anyone who suggests their work is better than Jackson's.

My concern is the sheer amount of hyperbole being bandied around.

Michael Jackson was not universally loved, he was not universally regarded as a genius and many of us viewed him with frank suspicion.

That there are other opinions shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, and true to form Jackson is as controversial in death as he was in life, he'd be lapping this up if he could see it.
 

BenEndeem

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2008
301
0
England
Awesome.

Not many artists have 9 albums, let alone 9 at the top at any given time.


:)


Exactly.


Hopefully someday you will understand why individuals don't bother to try to save their reputations and that innocent people do pay hush money, as you call it, because it is cheaper for them and has less impact on their lives.

Being in court and dragging yourself through the legal system can be a trying experience -- even when you are innocent.

What you need to realize is that there many times there are no winners, but one side looses less than the other.

And besides, what sort of victim/victim's parent accepts 'hush money'?

While I could never claim to be a fan of Michael Jackson's music, my thoughts on this are definitely with his family, especially his children.
 

Full of Win

macrumors 68030
Nov 22, 2007
2,615
1
Ask Apple
And besides, what sort of victim/victim's parent accepts 'hush money'?

While I could never claim to be a fan of Michael Jackson's music, my thoughts on this are definitely with his family, especially his children.

The same type of parent that would let their child sleep in the same bed as MJ.

With that said, if someone put 20 million of hush money in front of me under the same conditions, I don't know if I would make a different decision. I'm sure the internet bravado in some would say "hell no", but I'll have to be honest and say I very well might take such an offer.
 

yoppie

macrumors 6502a
Oct 19, 2007
870
0
What a fitting end for one of the greatest entertainers of all time. He's going out on top of the charts. RIP Michael.
 
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