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Microsoft Announces Surface Book i7, Desktop PC 'Surface Studio,' and Windows 10 Creators Update
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I find this obsession with the latest CPU/GPUs a little bizarre. I've been a professional designer for over 20 years. For the first part of my career I used to have to buy the most powerful new Mac Pro every year (or two at the most), so as to reduce the amount of time watching progress bars. But now I'm only on my second Mac since 2008, and its an iMac not a Mac Pro.
The fact is that we now live in a time where any relatively modern CPU/GPU is powerful enough for the vast majority of professional work (of course, like anything, there are exceptions).
The cost of these new Microsoft machines has very little to do with the CPU/GPU and a LOT to do with the 28" touch screen - a 28" hi res screen that doubles up as a 28" drawing tablet. If you NEED that, it's very cheap. If you don't need that, it's expensive and you'd be better off getting something else.
brianvictor7
macrumors 65816
Now that I have a had a night to sleep after the coup MS made yesterday, I have to say that, for as amazing as their video introduction was (and it was amazing), the fact that the studio isn't meant to be a general-public PC means that its impact isn't very big. Yes, it should put Apple on notice. No, it will not be an iMac killer as some would say. The Surface Studio will likely sell about as well as the Mac Pro, if it is lucky. Not because it isn't a great computer, but because most people can't afford or otherwise justify spending $3K on a computer.
diamond.g
macrumors G5
Gabe from Penny Arcade seems to think it handles Photoshop just fine.
https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio
I think you are right. However, I think there are four things to this introduction -
- To keep the Surface line aspirational. This is good for the downmarket Surfaces by establishing it as a premiere brand. This will also happen if you start seeing these things in strategic locations (kiosks, etc.) where you can show them off.
- This will sell regular Surface Pros and Surface Books if #1 starts to happen.
- It sets the stage for introducing cheaper versions of this product which can compete with an iMac in a year or two down the road. Microsoft could probably release a 21" - 24" version of this product for that could meet the $1999 price point.
- It is a bar to set for PC OEMs - particularly folks like HP.
Overall, it is a smart move Microsoft has made to go super high end. It shows that Windows as a platform doesn't need to be relegated to cheap plastic creaky unlovable machines.
We'll see if any of this happens - but I have friends who are now interested in Surface (and therefore Windows) who weren't before these kinds of introductions.
So many comments on design and style. Which is better, a chin on an iMac or a box as a base for a display? When you have worked with a beige full tower with a white optical drive mounted above a black optical drive, style wasn't important. What the machine did for you was important. That seems to be lost these days. First is looks, then functionality. Seems backwards to me. But hey, I'm over 50.
I really hope that this bit of competition at the high end encourages some real innovation from Apple. This could so easily have been the iMac two or three years ago.
tentales
macrumors 6502a
Agreed. I bought one used a few years back just to use as a Music player. Kinda like my big iPod for the home. Loved the keyboard on it and the external speakers that came with it. I refurb'd it and modded some of the internals. I was thinking about turning it into a hackintosh with updated tech, but there's something nostalgic and chic about it that keeps me remembering the glory days of the Mac and the less polluted versions of OS X.
I think with this line-up and price points, no one can keep calling Apple "higher priced" now.
The only difference down the road, PC/MS products get discounted, sometimes heavily, over time. Whereas the 2012 MBP still sells for the same price of 4 years ago, occasional 3rd party sales (10% off) aside.
brianvictor7
macrumors 65816
Fully agree, all points. Very well put.
[doublepost=1477567508][/doublepost]
There should be room for both: style and functionality. Apple had always striven for this and mostly hit the mark. Not always.
Having bought Apple phones, tablets, mutiple towers ( at the same time for my work), powerbooks etc etc - when I saw the Msoft presentation I smiled in a way that I haven't for years regarding the Apple ones. Here is a company trying something new, going out on a limb, doing something different.
The 'puck' may or may not be amazing - probably not for a non- graphic user - but it brought a smile of delight. I have not had that experience with Apple for years and years - even as a watch1 owner.
The Surface 3 i bought was quite terrible during the first year - clearly as a tablet it sucks due to a lack of apps. And as a computer it's not brilliant - there is still an issue with scaling and Windows 10 is still not as friendly as Mac Os.
Butttt - I feel far more friendly towards Microsoft than Apple - because it seems like they are listening to their customers whereas Apple seem like they are atuck in the arrogant attitide of knowing what is best.
My Surface Pro 3 has evolved, year on year, and has been given new capabilities - when has Apple ever released an improved product like the new Surface pen and made it backwards compatible?
My MacbookPro has been wonderful - but has regressed year on year due to the software - which year on year has deleted options and facilities.
I got a real kick and buzz from Microsoft's event - I may not use the new Surface Pro's facilities , but I really appreciated the new ways they are thinking.
It seems like Apple are stuck in a rut of offering the absolute bare minimum to customers and telling their customers what they should want rather than what they do want.
I really really hope there is something 'magical' unveiled tonight. Really. Because that's why I spent twenty years buying every single Apple product that was ever released. My pessimistic view, based on leaks etc, is that once again the only thing Apple now cares about is how to extract as much money from their loyal faithful as they can get away with.
I am guessing that I am not the only 'ex' apple fanboy to vote with my wallet and say not anymore.
Perhaps the most damaging thing for Apple, if anyone in this company ever listened to people such as myself and everyone else on this forum, is that I am not simply 'voting with my wallet'. I have had a change of heart. Apple somehow won my heart - and now (as stupid as it sounds for a technology company), they have broken it.
The good news is - looking at Microsoft, and Lenovo, and the Chinese smartphone manufacturers - I feel confident that I will be OK, in a way that I wouldn't have done even three or four years ago. So, I feel like "I" am fine, and wonder if "Apple" will be - not without "me" but without millions of people like me who fell in love with them and now feel like it is time for a 'conscious uncoupling' 🙂
The 'puck' may or may not be amazing - probably not for a non- graphic user - but it brought a smile of delight. I have not had that experience with Apple for years and years - even as a watch1 owner.
The Surface 3 i bought was quite terrible during the first year - clearly as a tablet it sucks due to a lack of apps. And as a computer it's not brilliant - there is still an issue with scaling and Windows 10 is still not as friendly as Mac Os.
Butttt - I feel far more friendly towards Microsoft than Apple - because it seems like they are listening to their customers whereas Apple seem like they are atuck in the arrogant attitide of knowing what is best.
My Surface Pro 3 has evolved, year on year, and has been given new capabilities - when has Apple ever released an improved product like the new Surface pen and made it backwards compatible?
My MacbookPro has been wonderful - but has regressed year on year due to the software - which year on year has deleted options and facilities.
I got a real kick and buzz from Microsoft's event - I may not use the new Surface Pro's facilities , but I really appreciated the new ways they are thinking.
It seems like Apple are stuck in a rut of offering the absolute bare minimum to customers and telling their customers what they should want rather than what they do want.
I really really hope there is something 'magical' unveiled tonight. Really. Because that's why I spent twenty years buying every single Apple product that was ever released. My pessimistic view, based on leaks etc, is that once again the only thing Apple now cares about is how to extract as much money from their loyal faithful as they can get away with.
I am guessing that I am not the only 'ex' apple fanboy to vote with my wallet and say not anymore.
Perhaps the most damaging thing for Apple, if anyone in this company ever listened to people such as myself and everyone else on this forum, is that I am not simply 'voting with my wallet'. I have had a change of heart. Apple somehow won my heart - and now (as stupid as it sounds for a technology company), they have broken it.
The good news is - looking at Microsoft, and Lenovo, and the Chinese smartphone manufacturers - I feel confident that I will be OK, in a way that I wouldn't have done even three or four years ago. So, I feel like "I" am fine, and wonder if "Apple" will be - not without "me" but without millions of people like me who fell in love with them and now feel like it is time for a 'conscious uncoupling' 🙂
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maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
For the most part, Microsoft is positioning the Surface product line as a premium product, Just look at the prices of the Surface Book. Aside from entry level model, they price for the SB is very high, topping off near 2,000 bucks for a 13" laptop.
The Surface Studio, goes even further, for me, I opted for the entry level Surface Book because spending any more on a 13" laptop was out of my budget.
I believe there's a point that people are ignoring — what effect will Microsoft's and Google's efforts to create their own ecosystems and walled gardens have on other PC and Android phone makers respectively?
Perhaps nothing immediately, but it will have an eroding effect on both of those markets over time.
Queen6
macrumors G5
I believe that they MS did state that the Studio is DCI P3, as that why I knew it would be the Spec.
Q-6
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I missed that, I had a meeting during the event so I had to mute the stream a couple of times
crzdcolombian
macrumors 6502a
Looks amazing but the price kills it. It's a 3k starting touch iMac designed for Artist.
Most Artist are broke not really a profession you will get people with 3-5k for a computer
People complain that the MAC Pro hasn't been updated in forever but it's like who the hell can afford that ! I work for a hedge fund and my wife's a doctor. Still don't have the money to drop 3-5k for a computer no matter how cool it looks
Most Artist are broke not really a profession you will get people with 3-5k for a computer
People complain that the MAC Pro hasn't been updated in forever but it's like who the hell can afford that ! I work for a hedge fund and my wife's a doctor. Still don't have the money to drop 3-5k for a computer no matter how cool it looks
SlCKB0Y
macrumors 68040
Since when? Pretty much every occasion where they had superior hardware. We were being bombarded constantly with benchmarks for G3 and G4 vs. Intel. We were bombarded after the intel switch with benchmarks of Intel Macs vs. the G5 Macs.
In mobile they were frequently discussing the raw speed of their Axx chips and GFX compared to the competition.
The only time Apple doesn't talk about raw hardware speed is when their hardware doesn't have the best raw speed - then they go very quiet on the subject.
This has been going on since about 1998.
Queen6
macrumors G5
Sadly that`s exactly all I expect of Apple these days and of course making systems needlessly thiner to the point of comprising the functionality. Very interested to see what Tim Cook & Co are going to talk about for 2 hours, of are we just going to treated to yet another self congratulatory fest...
Q-6
Order a maxxed out Studio for my office at work. I use the screen occasionally with pen. At home, i'll keep the imac i'm using.
That said, I wouldn't complain if Apple threw in touch with MacOS. But this has been a gripe. Make the ipad a wacom or something. Whatever the case, apple needs to find a solution. MS is going after Apple's core users. Still in the Apple camp though.
That said, I wouldn't complain if Apple threw in touch with MacOS. But this has been a gripe. Make the ipad a wacom or something. Whatever the case, apple needs to find a solution. MS is going after Apple's core users. Still in the Apple camp though.
Yeah, a thinner and lighter 15" with OLED bar isn't exactly what I want to hear about. I want to hear premium. I really wanted to hear 17" laptop with full kb but instead they seem to be downgrading the kb to the one used on the inferior macbooks. Most likely i'll just keep using the 15" MBP i have and wait and see where Apple goes with it. First gen is always buggy.
Still, there's not much out there I'd want in PC land either for a laptop. I didn't care for the Surface or surface book. But I do like the Studio PC although I'm cringing at the PC that's built in. I'd rather buy the monitor part separately.
We come here because we all like Apple products. Some people when felling threatened, just attack... sometimes wit the most stupid and shallow escuses. Don't lose focus, you're allegiance is to you're family, not to a company only interested in making profit, for the investors.
It's now clear that Apple has become a company for hipsters. On the other and, Microsoft is making products for professionals... yes the ones that Apple forgot and alienated in the last yeas. The "Studio" look's like a superb product; designers, photographers, architects; ARTISTS will find a good use for it. As a tool for making a living, his price is not that high. For facebook twitter or the need to fell important, of corse, is a bad investment!
Right now, Cupertino is just a circus full of clowns and obnoxious people, cooking recipes for teenagers.
It's now clear that Apple has become a company for hipsters. On the other and, Microsoft is making products for professionals... yes the ones that Apple forgot and alienated in the last yeas. The "Studio" look's like a superb product; designers, photographers, architects; ARTISTS will find a good use for it. As a tool for making a living, his price is not that high. For facebook twitter or the need to fell important, of corse, is a bad investment!
Right now, Cupertino is just a circus full of clowns and obnoxious people, cooking recipes for teenagers.
Sakurambo-kun
macrumors 6502a
The Studio is targeted at the 2D artist market. Such people normally buy Wacoms or if they can afford them, Cintiqs. The Studio looks to one up both of those with a single device, assuming the drawing experience is as good as Wacom offers.
If you're not an artist then the Studio is of no relevance to you.
Sakurambo-kun
macrumors 6502a
For the pro market Windows is far ahead of MacOS. Apple's reliance on their ancient and absurdly slow OpenGL driver, as well as shipping slow mobile GPUs in desktops gives Windows desktops a gigantic performance advantage. Plus Windows has DX12 and Vulkan, neither of which Apple will.