Microsoft Announces Surface Book i7, Desktop PC 'Surface Studio,' and Windows 10 Creators Update

[NT1440]

It's amazing how Apple influenced all the brands by going premium. Microsoft ,Huawei, Samsung, HP and many others now are making expensive, simple designed premium products because Apple influenced so much . You guys must admit this. Look how Hp, Sasmung and Microsoft evolved in design, advertising, price etc. They have not copied but have adopted the same strategy.

I don't think it's the influence so much as the premium market is the only one with margins able to keep OEM's afloat. Their business models were previously based mainly off volume with razor thin margins, and with the PC market declining there is really no choice but to look elsewhere for profit.

 

[andreyush]

I don't think it's the influence so much as the premium market is the only one with margins able to keep OEM's afloat. Their business models were previously based mainly off volume with razor thin margins, and with the PC market declining there is really no choice but to look elsewhere for profit.

Come on. They all make now simple designed devices, made of aluminium, and many other details influenced by Apple.

 

[addicted44]

So expensive! I'm used to paying an Apple premium but $3,000 starting price for this thing sounds crazy for what it provides. Even the current 27" iMac is a better value.

A similar touchscreen from Cintiq is $2700. And that's just the screen. You still need to provide it with a computer.

So for the market this is intended for, creatives who would like to draw and sketch, or simply use a massive digital workpad to write upon, this is probably the cheapest solution at the moment.

 

[NT1440]

Come on. They all make now simple designed devices, made of aluminium, and many other details influenced by Apple.

Oh I'm not disputing that design choices in the premium market are heavily influenced by Apple's 5+ year old designs (look at the entire "ultrabook" design paradigm which is so heavily influenced by the Macbook Air that it's hard not to see them as knockoffs).

But my point was that OEM's aren't going to to premium devices because of Apple, but instead because it's the only place where the profit margins exist to the level to keep them afloat while the PC market continues to decline.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[merkinmuffley]

MSFT copied Apple in providing DCI-P3 instead of AdobeRGB gamut. Aside from MSFT's propensity to follow Apple like a lemming, I'm baffled why they would do this. Maybe the LCD unit was less expensive because Apple paved the way? Here's a good rundown of the DCI-P3 colorspace:

http://www.astramael.com/

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Problems, yes. Total nightmare no. Go on the macOS Sierra forums to find all kinds of problems.

I know Sierra has its issues, but Windows 10 has even more issues, many are ridiculously strange and require a full reinstallation.

 

[8281]

Amazing how similar computers look nowadays to Apple products invented (and still sold) 5 years ago.

Sometimes the fanboyism is too much on this site. Are you serious? This thing is conceptually and functionally miles ahead of anything in the Mac lineup (at least until this afternoon). I like my Apple stuff, but MS is clearly gunning for (and winning over I think) a market Apple once dominated - creative professionals.

 

[LordVic]

MSFT copied Apple in providing DCI-P3 instead of AdobeRGB gamut. Aside from MSFT's propensity to follow Apple like a lemming, I'm baffled why they would do this. Maybe the LCD unit was less expensive because Apple paved the way? Here's a good rundown of the DCI-P3 colorspace:

http://www.astramael.com/

What do you mean instead of?

The tech specs

Screen: 28” PixelSense™ DisplayResolution: 4500 x 3000 (192 PPI)Color settings: Adobe sRGB and DCI-P3 and Vivid Color Profiles, Individually color calibrated

 

[dotnet]

Are you serious? This thing is conceptually and functionally miles ahead of anything in the Mac lineup

Perhaps your memory doesn't reach back far enough?

 

[maflynn]

Aside from MSFT's propensity to follow Apple like a lemming

So any company that uses P3 is copying apple like a lemming?

 

[PsycheEyeMike]

I find this obsession with the latest CPU/GPUs a little bizarre. I've been a professional designer for over 20 years. For the first part of my career I used to have to buy the most powerful new Mac Pro every year (or two at the most), so as to reduce the amount of time watching progress bars. But now I'm only on my second Mac since 2008, and its an iMac not a Mac Pro.

The fact is that we now live in a time where any relatively modern CPU/GPU is powerful enough for the vast majority of professional work (of course, like anything, there are exceptions).

The cost of these new Microsoft machines has very little to do with the CPU/GPU and a LOT to do with the 28" touch screen - a 28" hi res screen that doubles up as a 28" drawing tablet. If you NEED that, it's very cheap. If you don't need that, it's expensive and you'd be better off getting something else.

Well, the GPU's tend to increase the cost by quite a lot depending on the GPU being put inside. But why spend so much money on products not even released yet when they choose to put last years GPU's inside? Not exactly future proof is it? And no, the GPU advances are not stalling one bit. Nvidias new GPU's are so much better than the 9xx-series, they're almost exactly as fast the their new desktop GPU's! And that's an amazing feat!
What MS has done is picking last years GPU's, and obviously gotten an amazing discount on those from Nvidia, but they still charge an uber premium for the devices (Book and Studio).

I'm not saying that the screens and the rest of the hardware aren't premium, they most likely are, and the devices seem sweet. But i'm still annoyed that they went with the OLD Nvidia GPU's.

Even Apple are going with AMD's new mobile GPU's now (and even though that was a poor choice, going with AMD again, considering how much better AND more power efficient the new Nvidia mobile GPU's are).

It's just not very future proof, or "premium", for that matter. The prices are though.

 

[Jack Burton]

What you're asking for already exists, minus the dial. It's called a Cintiq.

Except wacom doesn't put as much effort into the display. The "air gap" on ones I used was noticeable and off-putting, and the cursor lag was noticeable, too. It needs a "hover" state to show your cursor because it isn't as lag free as something like the iPad Pro (again, my best friend's conclusion as he has them side by side). The displays themselves aren't as nice. The viewing angles, contrast, etc are just not up to snuff. I don't believe Wacom has the chops to get such a nice display, and I believe their proprietary screen tech has some inherent limitations. Sure, the pens have no batteries, but the displays are limited as a result. Apple keeps making displays thinner and thinner and that means it looks like painting on the glass. MS, from impressions I have read, has also accomplished that.

Wacom just got toppled, and toppled hard. If you use Windows and a cintiq, I believe this is the better option.

If you use a mac, there is another option that is better than the cintiq. Given what people I know are doing with an iPad Pro, Astropad, and an iMac (or any mac as the "hub"), I think Apple has a compelling solution. The iPad Pro + Astropad is portable. You can do what you need to do everywhere. Use it at home or at work, and all you're carrying is a light weight iPad Pro between your work and home mac machines.

I just can't believe Apple didn't create that solution in house. I'd love for Apple to integrate Astropad functionality and make it as lag free as possible when connected via lightning. Get in there on the system level and optimize the crap out of it.

As small sampling of artists I know, which is in no way an indicator of the markets a whole: windows users in the market for a cintiq are looking at this instead now. Mac users are looking with curiosity, but are mainly unchanged in the platform of their choosing. One of my mac friends said "You'll pry my iPad Pro from my cold dead hands."

But the charging of the apple pencil is still stupid as hell.

 

[lowendlinux]

This is a pro machine. A pro machine that only has USB3 as its fastest external connectivity is embarrassing.
USB-C means Thunderbolt, and considering this "pro" machine only has a single notebook-class GPU, I say that's an unfortunate miss by Microsoft.


Depends on what you think about computers. Go to emerging markets, and for many of them, their first and only computers are smartphones. Thus I can understand Apple's decision to bet on mobile.

USB-C doesn't mean Thunderbolt it means USB with a type C connector.

You sir, don't know what you are talking about. No "agency" will utilise computers with consumer hardware for anything professional. Comparing a computer with mobile GPU, and low voltage Intel Core i7 with a Mac Pro running dual Intel Xeon, ECC memory and workstation graphics card is just plain stupid.

This compares to the iMac, and not the Mac Pro.

Errr..no and The FirePro's in the Mac Pro aren't really FirePro's and to top it the *nix's don't get the application specific drivers Windows does.

Thunderbolt was co-developed by Apple and Intel. It has since evolved into USB 3.1, so its not going away and it does provide great bandwidth that other interfaces have failed to provide. It's a shame that MS did not use the latest technology to provide their customers with leading-edge products.

USB 3.1 has nothing to do with Thunderbolt at all

If you use Windows for work 8 hours a day and not just as a glorified game launcher (aka Wintendo) then perhaps you'd feel different. Windows is as always, a death by a thousand pinpricks and coming back to my 5K iMac every day is like taking a breath of fresh air for the very first time.

I feel the same when when I leave my Mac's at work and come home to my Linux boxes.

 

[celo48]

Your house must be pretty dark then....

Hahaha that's funny. Thanks for the laugh

 

[bobob]

You'd be surprised at how many illustrators or graphic designers use the Cintiqs professionally out there, despite how expensive they may be and I'll bet some will jump at the new Surface PC.

They only have to buy the Cintiq once and you can use it with as powerful and as customizable a workstation as they please.

 

[celo48]

What don't you like about it? (honest question)

The UI, crashes, freezes but most importantly VIRUS/TROJAN.

 

[dotnet]

Microsoft calls it "zero gravity hinge". Steve Jobs called it "incredible". He clearly had a limited vocabulary.

(surely, there's gotta be a better quality version of this clip?)

 

[tuxon86]

20 years ago, Apple was struggling, they had a non multi-tasking operating system, that crashed if you loaded extensions in the wrong order, and ran on the PowerPC platform. They were losing marketshare and had a lack of direction.

I don't think that's something anyone should copy.

And they were bailed out by.... Microsoft!

 

[Tunster]

The Surface Studio is one gorgeous computer, its very apple like in its elegant lines and function. My iMac with the giant bezels and large chin feels so old and outdated.

Microsoft is swinging for the fences and its shows, where as I feel Apple is complacent - I hope at least I'm wrong and tomorrow's event will surprise me

One big problem. It runs Windows .

 

[maflynn]

And they were bailed out by.... Microsoft!

Yup, that gave Apple breathing room to change course and right the ship, which they did in spectacular form.
[doublepost=1477580321][/doublepost]

One big problem. It runs Windows .

Not for everyone (including me)

 

[9081094]

My degree is in art and graphic design. Now, I have not done illustration professionally for over 25 years (showing my age), and I still do like to paint and draw from time to time. I do see the appeal to an illustrator or fine artist, but I don't see many professional artists giving up their Macs for something like this. It just seems to be a very narrow market they're trying to appeal to. I'm guessing because for most others, having a giant touch screen has little advantage.

Again, maybe I'm showing my age and I do feel like I'm getting set in my ways as I'm finding a lot of new "innovations" these days to be more fluff than necessary. It's been a LONG time that I've seen a new gadget that I've said "i got to have one of those" or were blow away with excitement. Probably the last thing that had me excited is when Apple introduced the concept of "Apps" for the iPhone.

I think we're from another generation. I really think that the younger iPad generation are used to draw and paint digitally. The Surface Studio is a very useful tool for them as for photoshop artists. It's the future

 

[Swordylove]

Sorry if somebody else already beat me to it (I'm late to the party), but I remember seeing an article on here about a patent application by Apple that was pretty much exactly what Surface Studio is.

 

[Longpress]

They beat Apple at their own game: thinness.

I totally agree... Apples 'game' from back in 2010. Well this is awkward... http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/08/the-mother-lode-welcome-to-the-imac-touch.html
[doublepost=1477580548][/doublepost]

Sorry if somebody else already beat me to it (I'm late to the party), but I remember seeing an article on here about a patent application by Apple that was pretty much exactly what Surface Studio is.

Nope. Not just you... here it is: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/08/the-mother-lode-welcome-to-the-imac-touch.html

 

[Swordylove]

Nope. Not just you... here it is: http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/08/the-mother-lode-welcome-to-the-imac-touch.html

Yeah that's the one. I was about to edit my post and put a picture of it.
It was the first thing that struck me when I saw Surface Studio on the news. I was like "Ehhhh..??".

 

[iSayuSay]

It's amazing how Apple influenced all the brands by going premium. Microsoft ,Huawei, Samsung, HP and many others now are making expensive, simple designed premium products because Apple influenced so much . You guys must admit this. Look how Hp, Sasmung and Microsoft evolved in design, advertising, price etc. They have not copied but have adopted the same strategy.

Yeah well I admit that all premium designs refer to, or at least inspired by Apple. But at least they update their hardware with the latest chips and all. Mac on the other hand? How often we could get excited with "Hello Again" event? Much less than once a year for sure.

In between that period we get minor changes, or no changes at all. Chip is the same, spec is more or less the same, even the price is the same.

TL;DR New price for old hardware. That's Mac for you