Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Your numbers seem strange to me.

When I bought phones subsidized, they were $200 after subsidizing. My monthly bill for phone/text/data with Verizon was the same regardless if I had a subsidized phone or not. The perk that Verizon got from me was 2 years of commitment.

$200 / 24 months is $8.33 per month for subsidizing the phone.

Fast forward today, my monthly payment for my iPhone X alone is more than $8.33 per month. I have not changed from Verizon since 2004.
[doublepost=1543464146][/doublepost]

It's because their cloud services is a beast. "Great" cloud services is an immense understatement.

On Amazon's mind, I'd argue they care more about user data and expanding their vast array of services and niches. By definition, this is what growth is even if it's intrusive. Many people here forget that some companies value their users (and their data) more than just pure profits.

Would you rather sell 1 item for $1000, or gain 1000 users for $1?
Amazon will need to ratchet profits up as growth slows inevitably. I just don’t think they’ll be able to meaningfully to justify the current valuation, although it’s come down.

Cloud services will be and are starting to be very competitive with Microsoft, Google, and IBM all offering robust alternatives. IBM is a huge player in banking, for example.

Retail is a flat out awful business when you’re selling products will high costs to ship. Walmart and many other retailers are starting to really get serious in E-Commerce, eroding Amazon’s fast shipping advantage and even beating it with local store pickup and same day delivery.
 
Your numbers seem strange to me.

When I bought phones subsidized, they were $200 after subsidizing. My monthly bill for phone/text/data with Verizon was the same regardless if I had a subsidized phone or not. The perk that Verizon got from me was 2 years of commitment.

$200 / 24 months is $8.33 per month for subsidizing the phone.

Fast forward today, my monthly payment for my iPhone X alone is more than $8.33 per month. I have not changed from Verizon since 2004.
Let me guess. You have a grandfathered unlimited plan with just one line of service. If so, Verizon has been screwing you out of your subsidy for years.

On my plan, I have 20 GB per month to share with up to 5 lines. I only have 2 lines so we pay $30/month for the connection fee. Back when they subsidized phones, they sold $650 phones for $200, if you signed a contract for 2 years. However, the connection fee was $40/month if you took the subsidy ($450). That extra $25/month works out to be $600 over the 2 years, so I'd be paying $150 extra by signing the 2 year contract.

Good with grandfathered at&t or Verizon plans didn't see discounts after their 2 years because the carriers wanted you to switch to a shared data plan. If they knocked $20-25 of the bill, you'd never change to a shared data plan.
 
There's no disputing the fact that PC sales and market share is in decline, but it's really not a cause for serious alarm. Microsoft environments are still Microsoft environments.

PC's are so good now the refresh cycle has changed. Years ago it was a miracle if your PC made it to the 3 year refresh period. Now a standard corporate laptop should last for anything up to 6 years. Enterprises are buying less hardware because they can.

The average home user no longer needs an up-to-date PC to get things done. Most of the things a person does can be done on their phone. The rest their older clunky laptops can handle or a tablet device.

Microsoft isn't reliant on the sales of Windows licences to exist. They've adapted, moved on & have become very successful at being the core of most people's lives. Microsoft have morphed into a services company, something Apple are trying to be now the arse has fallen out of the market of flogging hardware.

Apple's answer to cloud services is iCloud which is a festering stinking turd compared to all their rivals offerings.
Microsoft doesn't sell hardware, though, except for the Surface. They've always been a services company. People pay them every now and then for the Windows or Office update. And they do things in such a way that people get locked in. The only change recently was O365 and its cloud component, cause ofc that kind of cloud service didn't really exist in the early 2000s, but they did have the Xbox Live service before.

I don't think kids or younger tech-savvy people use MS stuff. They've all gone to Google's services and Apple's laptops. Can't remember the last time I've had someone share a Word document with me.
[doublepost=1543470780][/doublepost]
IT people need to keep their jobs, so they pick something that requires a lot of IT support.
Haha. Well not sure if you meant to be serious or just make a dark joke. I know that a few people do things like that, but most likely the average people just pick something they know and the industry uses.
 
Last edited:
"Tank" is a strong word. It's down about 1.5%, or basically giving up today's rally. It's down 25% from the high, but all the FAANG stocks and NVDA, AMD, and others have been crushed.
You keep mentioning AMD or Nvidia but their situation has absolutely nothing to do with Apple, nothing.
 
I don’t see Amazon as a low risk company because the minute they stop growing, it doesn’t have the earnings, buyback, or cash to keep it up.

Amazon AWS has lots of growth potential, but also a lot of upcoming competitors in Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Baymowe335
Not sure how things are in Australia, but in the US, there are plenty of different investment vehicles to choose from. 401K, IRA, etc.

Did a quick look tonight on how you buy and sell shares in Australia, looks like it is fairly simple with different providers offering online trading accounts with trades varying from about $10-$30 each for those in the range up to $10k
 
  • Like
Reactions: ftaok
Amazon will need to ratchet profits up as growth slows inevitably. I just don’t think they’ll be able to meaningfully to justify the current valuation, although it’s come down.

Cloud services will be and are starting to be very competitive with Microsoft, Google, and IBM all offering robust alternatives. IBM is a huge player in banking, for example.

Retail is a flat out awful business when you’re selling products will high costs to ship. Walmart and many other retailers are starting to really get serious in E-Commerce, eroding Amazon’s fast shipping advantage and even beating it with local store pickup and same day delivery.

Amazon’s AWS business is the elephant in the room. People think of Amazon’s e-commerce as their main driver but forget that is just a facade over AWS and their services.

You have banking and you have everything else. AWS literally powers 34% of the cloud. When it comes to cost differences, they about en par to azure. GCP is slightly cheaper and is not experiencing the growth you are saying and are not much of a factor in this. Recent news show they are disappointed in their performance, and really the only thing you get out of it is Tensorflow(ML) which all the other competitors now have. I can’t speak for IBM since like you said it’s industry specific, but AWS is industry agnostic.
[doublepost=1543500684][/doublepost]
Let me guess. You have a grandfathered unlimited plan with just one line of service. If so, Verizon has been screwing you out of your subsidy for years.

On my plan, I have 20 GB per month to share with up to 5 lines. I only have 2 lines so we pay $30/month for the connection fee. Back when they subsidized phones, they sold $650 phones for $200, if you signed a contract for 2 years. However, the connection fee was $40/month if you took the subsidy ($450). That extra $25/month works out to be $600 over the 2 years, so I'd be paying $150 extra by signing the 2 year contract.

Good with grandfathered at&t or Verizon plans didn't see discounts after their 2 years because the carriers wanted you to switch to a shared data plan. If they knocked $20-25 of the bill, you'd never change to a shared data plan.

I have one line just for myself, no shared data, and no unlimited. I used to cling to my unlimited but I was only using 1-2 GB a month. I’ve switched off unlimited now and am on a 5 GB plan that rolls over each month. My monthly went from 70$ after tax to now $50 after tax.

Fwiw, I use Howard Forums to find the best deals.

Keep in mind I am not subsidizing my current iPhone X because I want it unlocked.
 
Amazon’s AWS business is the elephant in the room. People think of Amazon’s e-commerce as their main driver but forget that is just a facade over AWS and their services.

You have banking and you have everything else. AWS literally powers 34% of the cloud. When it comes to cost differences, they about en par to azure. GCP is slightly cheaper and is not experiencing the growth you are saying and are not much of a factor in this. Recent news show they are disappointed in their performance, and really the only thing you get out of it is Tensorflow(ML) which all the other competitors now have. I can’t speak for IBM since like you said it’s industry specific, but AWS is industry agnostic.
[doublepost=1543500684][/doublepost]

I have one line just for myself, no shared data, and no unlimited. I used to cling to my unlimited but I was only using 1-2 GB a month. I’ve switched off unlimited now and am on a 5 GB plan that rolls over each month. My monthly went from 70$ after tax to now $50 after tax.

Fwiw, I use Howard Forums to find the best deals.

Keep in mind I am not subsidizing my current iPhone X because I want it unlocked.
The profits from AWS still are what they are and Amazons entire business made $7B total in 2018. That’s just the fact. AWS had a 5 year runway with almost no competition, but that is changing. I’m not saying it’s not a great business, it is, but it’s not enormously profitable even today and competition is catching up.

Apple services are bigger than AWS. A lot bigger.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AxiomaticRubric
I have one line just for myself, no shared data, and no unlimited. I used to cling to my unlimited but I was only using 1-2 GB a month. I’ve switched off unlimited now and am on a 5 GB plan that rolls over each month. My monthly went from 70$ after tax to now $50 after tax.

Fwiw, I use Howard Forums to find the best deals.

Keep in mind I am not subsidizing my current iPhone X because I want it unlocked.
You see, back when you were on your unlimited plan, once you've crossed the 24 month mark, Verizon should have dropped your monthly fee by $20-25/month like they did with the other plans. But they didn't because they wanted folks to drop their UL plans. 99.999% of the time when someone says that they made out better with the old subsidy model, it's because they are/were AT&T or Verizon subscriber with the grandfathered UL plan on a single line (maybe up to 2 lines). Most everyone else would break even (or benefit slightly) if under the full-price method even if they upgrade every 2 years. If you hold your phone even longer, the benefits would increase even more.

I get why some folks like the subsidy plan. Small cash outlay. "Generous" carriers allowing early upgrades (new every two eligibilty at 16 months). But those days are gone.

ASIDE - regarding your need for an unlocked iPhone. I thought all Verizon phones were unlocked whether they were subsidized or not. The SIM on VZ phones have always been open for putting in a different carrier SIM. Did this change?
 
Apple should have offered an iCloud branded cloud computing platform like AWS, long ago. I always found it strange that they never really supported the server side of things for iOS and macOS development.

Dropping the Xserve was a bad move. Most APIs used by iOS apps run on Windows or Linux. The Vapor and Kitura frameworks that run Swift code on the server are still just hobby projects that can't compete with the LAMP stack, .NET Core, or Node.js.

So Apple did well with consumer electronics, but now the major players in cloud computing are coming back to bite them. Tim Cook & Co. really deserve this.
 
Last edited:
You see, back when you were on your unlimited plan, once you've crossed the 24 month mark, Verizon should have dropped your monthly fee by $20-25/month like they did with the other plans.

My experience was different. I wasn't on an unlimited data plan with Verizon. As I mentioned earlier, when my two-year contract expired, I argued that my monthly payment should be less since the subsidy requirement was met. I should only pay for cell services going forward. The manager didn't agree. In fact, he insisted that they didn't subsidize a phone's cost! He said if I had brought a phone to Verizon, monthly service fees were the same. Yet I wasn't paying monthly installments either. Legally, that would have to be divulged in the contract.

In hindsight, Verizon was being clever. Technically, if the phone were subsidized, that would imply that Verizon paid a portion of the phone's cost. Verizon would have advertised the phone's MSRP and said, "We'll pay the difference." Instead, Verizon said on paper that I paid $200 for the phone. Done. My monthly payment was for service only, but I was contractually obligated to be their customer for two years to qualify for the discount. And if I recall correctly, the penalty for canceling didn't state that you had to pay a remaining balance for the phone. It said I you had to pay a specific amount ($400?)

I'll bet dollars to donuts that if I had broke my contract and were taken to court, Verizon would have only been able to sue me for the penalty. They would not have been able to reclaim the phone since I had already paid for it ($200) according to them.

Regardless, the experience taught me that Verizon's service was overpriced and wasn't going to improve for me. I switched carriers.

A final point for those who insist iPhones haven't increased in cost of ownership... If an iPhone Xs were available when these pricing schemes were in vogue, do you think it would have been discounted to $200? I doubt it. And if it were, the penalty for cancelling a contract would have been considerably higher.
 
My experience was different. I wasn't on an unlimited data plan with Verizon. As I mentioned earlier, when my two-year contract expired, I argued that my monthly payment should be less since the subsidy requirement was met. I should only pay for cell services going forward. The manager didn't agree. In fact, he insisted that they didn't subsidize a phone's cost! He said if I had brought a phone to Verizon, monthly service fees were the same. Yet I wasn't paying monthly installments either. Legally, that would have to be divulged in the contract.

In hindsight, Verizon was being clever. Technically, if the phone were subsidized, that would imply that Verizon paid a portion of the phone's cost. Verizon would have advertised the phone's MSRP and said, "We'll pay the difference." Instead, Verizon said on paper that I paid $200 for the phone. Done. My monthly payment was for service only, but I was contractually obligated to be their customer for two years to qualify for the discount. And if I recall correctly, the penalty for canceling didn't state that you had to pay a remaining balance for the phone. It said I you had to pay a specific amount ($400?)

I'll bet dollars to donuts that if I had broke my contract and were taken to court, Verizon would have only been able to sue me for the penalty. They would not have been able to reclaim the phone since I had already paid for it ($200) according to them.

Regardless, the experience taught me that Verizon's service was overpriced and wasn't going to improve for me. I switched carriers.
We're talking about different timeframes. Back when all post-paid plans were under the subsidy model, none of the carriers would discount your service fee after the contract duration was fulfilled. This extends back into the pre-smartphone days. I remember when the RAZR first came out, it was $200 with a contract. If you bought it out of contract (which happens if you got your phone lost or stolen or broken), it was like $800. The difference between what you paid and what the carrier paid for it is the subsidy (note - the carriers didn't necessarily pay $800 for the RAZR, but it was certainly more than $200). Now they can call it whatever they like, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you weren't paying the full cost of the phone with that $200 up front charge.

Back then, the carriers would routinely allow customers to upgrade they phones at the subsidized price after about a year or so, but a lot depended on how much of a subsidy they got in the first place. Let's say you paid $200 for a RAZR and that it cost Verzion $600 (for a subsidy value of $400), they might let you upgrade at about 16 months. But if you paid $100 for a Moto 755 that cost them $400 (subsidy value of $300), they might let you upgrade at 12 months.

Back then all of the US carriers used the subsidy model but would keep charging the same monthly fees, whether you were in or out of contract. Honestly, they loved it when folks would kept their phones for 3 to 4 years. Didn't matter if you were in or out of contract because it was such a hassle to change carriers since you'd need a new phone number and have to re-enter all of your contact (doesn't apply to GSM phones where the address book was on the SIM). This extended into the early years of smartphones.

Fast forward a few years around 2013 or so. The subsidy model was still available, but (in the US) the phone number porting rules gave customers more leverage. Plus LTE becoming more a standard meant that phones could be used across carriers (sort of). Both AT&T and Verizon was getting sick of people hanging onto their unlimted data plans and also updating every 2 years (or sooner). They were getting hit on both ends. Folks were savvy enough to make sure they always upgraded as soon as they could (costing the carriers $450 each time). Folks were also threatening to switch more and more often because it was so much easier by then.

That's when the carriers modified their plans to give a discount on your connection fee when your 2 years ran out. If you wanted a new subsidized phone, you'd sign a 2 year contract and the connection fee was $40/month. If you kept your phone or bought it out-right, the fee would be $15/month. The exception was, and continues to be, grandfathered UL plans on AT&T and VZ.

A few years later, T-Mobile shook everything up by getting rid of contracts entirely. They went with basically a 0% financing plan, but once your phone was paid off, your monthly fee went down. They basically made the subsidy portion transparent. AT&T and VZ followed suit with their NEXT and Freedom financing plans.

And that's where we're at today.

Just curious, what kind of plan are you on today?
 
Apple are back on top now it seems

Microsoft needed the buzz. As much of a comeback as they have made, they are still invisible as far as consumer mindset is concerned.

The FAANG stocks are all companies in the forefront of consumers' minds. That's one of the reasons there is not M in FAANG.

I suspect mom & pops buying Microsoft stock based on a story on CNN Money might be more easily manipulated into buying and selling than a hedge fund manager.
 
ASIDE - regarding your need for an unlocked iPhone. I thought all Verizon phones were unlocked whether they were subsidized or not. The SIM on VZ phones have always been open for putting in a different carrier SIM. Did this change?

With the iPhone 4S that I purchased subsidized from Verizon, it was locked to Verizon.

My next phone iPhone 6S was done through the 2 yr Apple upgrade plan, and it was not locked to Verizon. I *think* now it's open though if you purchase through Verizon
[doublepost=1543525564][/doublepost]
Apple services are bigger than AWS. A lot bigger.

Can you explain what you mean by this? If you have companies operating out of AWS that have as much content catalog as Apple if not more, I can't even bend my mind around this statement.
[doublepost=1543525769][/doublepost]
Apple should have offered an iCloud branded cloud computing platform like AWS, long ago. I always found it strange that they never really supported the server side of things for iOS and macOS development.

Because they were first and foremost a Dell/HP/Compaq/etc type of brand, and not a services brand. iCloud as a whole is a joke compared to other real cloud solutions that also support 3rd parties. Apple development never really took off as a whole until they started supported x86.
 
With the iPhone 4S that I purchased subsidized from Verizon, it was locked to Verizon.

My next phone iPhone 6S was done through the 2 yr Apple upgrade plan, and it was not locked to Verizon. I *think* now it's open though if you purchase through Verizon
[doublepost=1543525564][/doublepost]

Can you explain what you mean by this? If you have companies operating out of AWS that have as much content catalog as Apple if not more, I can't even bend my mind around this statement.
[doublepost=1543525769][/doublepost]

Because they were first and foremost a Dell/HP/Compaq/etc type of brand, and not a services brand. iCloud as a whole is a joke compared to other real cloud solutions that also support 3rd parties. Apple development never really took off as a whole until they started supported x86.
Apple services is a $37.2B business in the last 4 quarters, growing at 25%.

AWS did about $23B in sales the last 4 quarters.

Apple pretty much always wins when it comes to financials. They are an unrivaled monster.

Of course the “services” businesses are different, but I’m comparing high growth areas of stocks that trade very differently, but it’s Apple that actually has the better growth engine. Apple is undervalued.
 
Last edited:
Apple services is a $37.2B business in the last 4 quarters, growing at 25%.

AWS did about $23B in sales the last 4 quarters.

Apple pretty much always wins when it comes to financials. They are an unrivaled monster.

Of course the “services” businesses are different, but I’m comparing high growth areas of stocks that trade very differently, but it’s Apple that actually has the better growth engine. Apple is undervalued.

- An estimated $9B are from Google to be the iPhones search engine (will decrease if the iPhone loses market share).

- an estimated more than $10B is Apple care which is not really a service but an extra revenue from hardware sales.

- The rest is Apple Pay, Apple Music, ICloud, App store revenue, etc. Some of that is recurring revenue, most of it is transaction dependent.


As you can see most of Apples services revenue is dependent on the companies overall hardware sales performance. It is not recurring and therefore stable revenue as Apple suggests. That is why revenue in the service segment tends to be a lot higher in the 1st quarter when hardware sales jump.
 
- An estimated $9B are from Google to be the iPhones search engine (will decrease if the iPhone loses market share).

- an estimated more than $10B is Apple care which is not really a service but an extra revenue from hardware sales.

- The rest is Apple Pay, Apple Music, ICloud, App store revenue, etc. Some of that is recurring revenue, most of it is transaction dependent.


As you can see most of Apples services revenue is dependent on the companies overall hardware sales performance. It is not recurring and therefore stable revenue as Apple suggests. That is why revenue in the service segment tends to be a lot higher in the 1st quarter when hardware sales jump.
Call it what you want. I know what’s in the services bucket. The point is, it’s $40B growing at 25%.

It is recurring. I can look at the numbers and see that. You don’t grow that fast without recurring because iPhone units are only growing low single digits. It’s also FAR less seasonal. For example, they just had their biggest services revenue quarter ever, at $10B in a non Xmas quarter.

The Google piece will do nothing but increase as more devices are active and the fee goes higher. Google wants it. Bad. Apple can sell half the iPhones they normally sell and the active base will still grow.

Your AppleCare number is total speculation. No one knows the take rates on AppleCare.
 
Just curious, what kind of plan are you on today?

Ironically, after being a T-Mo customer for years following that experience, I’m reluctantly back with Verizon because of a business subscription. I’m paying the same rate as I did before I left, but this time it is an unlimited plan rather than the 2GB plan I had (Can thank T-Mo for that).

I seldom consume more than 3GB, even when I travel. Therefore, I won’t stay with Verizon when my assignment ends. I am contemplating Consumer Cellular or Google Fi. The latter if I move to this year’s Pixel phone.
 
We're talking about different timeframes. Back when all post-paid plans were under the subsidy model, none of the carriers would discount your service fee after the contract duration was fulfilled. This extends back into the pre-smartphone days. I remember when the RAZR first came out, it was $200 with a contract. If you bought it out of contract (which happens if you got your phone lost or stolen or broken), it was like $800. The difference between what you paid and what the carrier paid for it is the subsidy (note - the carriers didn't necessarily pay $800 for the RAZR, but it was certainly more than $200). Now they can call it whatever they like, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you weren't paying the full cost of the phone with that $200 up front charge.

Back then, the carriers would routinely allow customers to upgrade they phones at the subsidized price after about a year or so, but a lot depended on how much of a subsidy they got in the first place. Let's say you paid $200 for a RAZR and that it cost Verzion $600 (for a subsidy value of $400), they might let you upgrade at about 16 months. But if you paid $100 for a Moto 755 that cost them $400 (subsidy value of $300), they might let you upgrade at 12 months.

Back then all of the US carriers used the subsidy model but would keep charging the same monthly fees, whether you were in or out of contract. Honestly, they loved it when folks would kept their phones for 3 to 4 years. Didn't matter if you were in or out of contract because it was such a hassle to change carriers since you'd need a new phone number and have to re-enter all of your contact (doesn't apply to GSM phones where the address book was on the SIM). This extended into the early years of smartphones.

Fast forward a few years around 2013 or so. The subsidy model was still available, but (in the US) the phone number porting rules gave customers more leverage. Plus LTE becoming more a standard meant that phones could be used across carriers (sort of). Both AT&T and Verizon was getting sick of people hanging onto their unlimted data plans and also updating every 2 years (or sooner). They were getting hit on both ends. Folks were savvy enough to make sure they always upgraded as soon as they could (costing the carriers $450 each time). Folks were also threatening to switch more and more often because it was so much easier by then.

That's when the carriers modified their plans to give a discount on your connection fee when your 2 years ran out. If you wanted a new subsidized phone, you'd sign a 2 year contract and the connection fee was $40/month. If you kept your phone or bought it out-right, the fee would be $15/month. The exception was, and continues to be, grandfathered UL plans on AT&T and VZ.

A few years later, T-Mobile shook everything up by getting rid of contracts entirely. They went with basically a 0% financing plan, but once your phone was paid off, your monthly fee went down. They basically made the subsidy portion transparent. AT&T and VZ followed suit with their NEXT and Freedom financing plans.

And that's where we're at today.

Just curious, what kind of plan are you on today?


Nice summary. It wasn't until after the subsidy ended that I realized who benefitted the most from them. If you didn't get the subsidy then, you were basically subsidizing those that choose the subsidy because you and the other subsidy person paid the same rates. (ATT) I often wonder if / how much such pricing took advantage of poor people who couldn't take advantage of the subsidy. Especially if they were a family with a couple of children. They paid full rates and had to use less the great phones. Or, where there subsidies on other phone brands that poor people could get that were of similar quality that were subsidized by ATT? Say Samsung or Motorola.
I am also wondering who benefits and who loses with Amazon Prime. Do the people NOT using Amazon Prime subsidize the Prime members? If I save $500 on shipping and Prime cost me $100 then, this seems like an unsustainable model if all or most of the Prime members cost Amazon more than Amazon receives from Prime membership. Thus, how is it being sustained. Price increase across the board including those that don't subscribe to Amazon Prime?
Ugh! This post is poorly written but I had to get it out.
Take care.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Defthand
Compare the past 12 months of iPad unit sales to all Surface devices during the same time period and get back to me.

Another one of the 'my daddy is better than your daddy' types on this forum. There are millions enjoying their Surface devices as we speak here, are their experiences invalid because there are 10x more iPads?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ladybug
Apple services is a $37.2B business in the last 4 quarters, growing at 25%.

AWS did about $23B in sales the last 4 quarters.

Apple pretty much always wins when it comes to financials. They are an unrivaled monster.

Of course the “services” businesses are different, but I’m comparing high growth areas of stocks that trade very differently, but it’s Apple that actually has the better growth engine. Apple is undervalued.

From a sales perspective, you have a point. But that is all you have. The problem is Apple's sales are tied directly to their hardware. Apple services are bigger in sales when compared 1:1 with a singular company, but not in scope or global impact.

If you count how many companies use AWS and the revenue they are generating in addition to what AWS is generating itself, Apple is a spec of sand. Apple has absolutely ZERO impact on external businesses day to day. They don't provide services or anything outside of their ecosystem. They don't even host iCloud themselves nor scale/run it well. Sure when it comes to sales they are a beast because they have a consumer device that a lot of people want, and people purchase products tied to the platform.

If you want to say Apple's services are bigger in sales, that's fine. I'll give you that. But if you are claiming they are bigger than AWS by scale, I think you should do less financial reading and more case studies on tech.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.