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I will say that, though I absolutely didn't like the result of my time with support in-store with Microsoft ($450 to fix a Surface Pro 4). The people in-store were great. The whole store experience was far better than my last few experiences in the Apple Store.

Of course, it's easier to be personable when the store is basically empty.

I feel like I'm in Wal-Mart when I walk into Apple at this point because of how many people are there... it gives me anxiety and I feel like I don't even know how to buy something. Last time I tried to make an appointment to get something fixed, there was a two week wait. Then I waited an hour when I got there.

MS let me make an appointment 15 minutes before.

Apple needs more stores at this point or a Genius Bar in every Best Buy or something.
Oh the in-store experience is very different, yes. At our local mall we have both an Apple Store and a Microsoft Store. Both are staffed with courteous employees.

I'm referring to my husband's experience as a business customer dealing with their software licensing. Phone support with them has long been an ordeal. Once in awhile he gets someone great, but mostly he gets people hiding behind policies, not solutions. Both my husband and I have years of customer service experience and know that any rep can hide behind policies and brush a customer off so they don't have to be bothered, but a good one knows how to find workarounds to get their customers up and running, and that should always be the goal.

Still, a well run company will train its employees that flinging policies at customers is only a last resort when a customer is trying to game the system, not legitimately struggling with a problem. Apple has, for all the years my husband has been dealing with them as a business customer and as a private individual, been good about not shoving policies in his face and instead, trying to make things work.

Still, there are some small signs they're slipping a little in this regard. The employees still seem willing to be helpful but more and more seem to lack the resources or are ensnared in more layers of processes and procedures than before, as you've observed. I also encountered a surprisingly long wait about two years ago just trying to get a straightforward screen repair done on a dropped iPhone. Getting the appointment was its own multi-hour mess, then the repair itself turned into a two week trip to the Depot. It was still a better experience than I've heard is offered by the competition, but not up to the standard Apple once held itself to.

Working with MS as a business customer is likely a good deal different than the relationships we will have walking into one of their stores, or getting our hardware issues resolved as non-business customers. I still have my questions about their ability to serve any customer over software issues that may arise.
 
The Surface Book rocks. Surface studio is far more innovative than the iMac.

All Apple does lately is Thinner. Ive doesn't even understand that on a "pro" laptop other features rank above Thinner in priority. On a desktop Thinner doesn't even make sense. The user cannot see all the Thinner while using it, and it forces all the ports to the back so you have to stand up and give you're computer a reach around just to plug in a damn flash drive! Stupid, stupid stupid!

Higher prices for thinner, more docks and dongles, and less features. Think Stupid™.
 
Have a week go by without a 20 minute update.
Have a day go by without a crash or 10.
Have a hour go by without some nonsensical technical pop up.
No find decades old UI elements they still have not changed since windows NT/95
Change a system setting without going insane trying to find it in either of the 2 UI metaphors ( metro / classic ) and then the dozens of buried tabs and modal pop up.
Generally be happy and have a nice time using your computer at all.

You are using it wrong.
 
You hit the nail on the head for me. My wife and I have Apple iPhones/iPads and Macbooks. This key thing to me is if you lose me as a MacBook user you lose my entire ecosystem of Apple products.

EXACTLY. I'm in the same camp. I only have Apple's tablets and phones because I wanted to stay in the same ecosystem. Once the main hub of that ecosystem changes (my computer), then you lose the rest. I buy a new phone and a new tablet every year. Once I get a Surface Book, I'll immediately sell my iPhone (they don't play nice with PC's at all) and get a Pixel. I'll live in Google's (significantly better) cloud services and the real cost of Apple's fumbles will be the folks that jump ship from the ecosystem and the iPhone in general.
 
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I'm a dyed in the wool apple fan boy. have been ever since OS X and the Ti powerbooks. I live in their eco system, I drink the kool aid. I'm happy as can be.

And yet even I sit here with many other disillusioned about how it seems mac is leaving their pro users out in the cold. Yes, sales numbers are the bottom line and now more consumers buy mac than pros, so the market shifts to them. But wow...to not even seemingly support the community that backed them during their "dark" times...kick in the balls.

The new MBP is...nice. I don't own one so I can't comment on the battery, but I played with one at the store...and yup its a thin laptop. The touch bar is a neat gimmick. But it also had me keep trying to touch the screen to launch apps...

I hate to say it, but I played with the new Surface Studio. THAT is exactly what apple should have released. Having Phil Schiller mouth piece that "touch screen computers don't work"...yeah he's right. If you made the screen on a current iMac, touch, it wouldn't be all the great. But you make the screen able to convert to a drafting table and you have a brilliant and great to use set up. I severely dislike MS, and I have to give this to them. They trumped Apple. My main pro app is Lightroom, and this interface is exactly what I've wanted for years. It has two downsides...1) its a windows machine 2) I think Apple does the pen input/feel better.

And while I won't switch (yet) the surface studio seriously has me contemplating my vow to never return to MS nearly 20 years ago...
 
And? Windows 7 was released 7 years ago. Your statement means nothing.

Last time I did a fresh install for my home desktop was when I purchased a new SSD 3 years ago. I've never felt the need to reformat anything.

Um because the majority of people & business still use Windows 7. It is still the OS with the highest market share by a long shot.

I can assure you the average person needs a reformat at least once a year or they just live with it. Sure, if you take care of your computer you won't need to reformat as frequently.

To this day, none of the developers at our workplace have been able to keep their computer running for more than a week without funky stuff happening. lol
 
Knowing how brilliant Apple people are, it really puzzles me why? Why no updates on Mac-mini, IMacs and Mac Pro. Why ports that can't connect to anything that I have, my 2 months old Iphone 7 plus included? Just throwing new processor and memory would make most clients happy and the rest will patiently wait for a big update. Same with the MBP. Throwing new CPU, GPU and SSD to the old form factor would satisfy most Pro customers and the new form can still go on sale for the general public. I was waiting for a new MBP for the last couple of years. Now I can't decide between 2015 MBP and going back to Windows. PS. I didn't care about Iphone 7 audio port removal and got the phone early. I'm also not very price sensitive as hardware for me is a corporate expense, so I supposed to be kinda target client for Apple.
 
The Surface Book rocks. Surface studio is far more innovative than the iMac.

All Apple does lately is Thinner. Ive doesn't even understand that on a "pro" laptop other features rank above Thinner in priority. On a desktop Thinner doesn't even make sense. The user cannot see all the Thinner while using it, and it forces all the ports to the back so you have to stand up and give you're computer a reach around just to plug in a damn flash drive! Stupid, stupid stupid!

Higher prices for thinner, more docks and dongles, and less features. Think Stupid™.

I'd like to see anyone here spend a day with a Surface studio. The puck wheel thing makes for a great Minority Report style demo, but it seems completely impractical for actual work.
 
I feel that following would have been the optimal thing for Apple and us customers.

- The "new" 2016 Macbook Pro should have been a new "Air" or just Macbook. Kept the Magsafe.
- The 2016 Macbook Pro should have just updated the 2015 model internals and display with existing form factor but other USB-A -> USB-C/TB3
- iPhone 7 with USB-C instead of lightning.

Most of the people would have been happier.
 
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Well there is anecdotal evidence among young people that the Mac (not the iphone) is losing to MS. I was just at two universities over the last couple of weeks and I saw very few Apple laptops but a ton of Surface and PC/Tablet hybrids. One class of about 40 there was only one MacBook. It was a very surprising change.

I'm a 5th year student at a state university in California.

When I came in during the Fall 2012, MacBooks made up at least 60-70% of the students. When the Surface Pro 3 and nicer convertables came out, they blew up around campus. I only see macs half as often now. The Surface Pro and Book and are definitely eating away at incoming students. I know a few who ended up switching.

However, I think part of the problem was Apple keeping around the non-retina MacBook Pro for long without putting a SATA SSD in it. It continued to sell for the CD Drive, but they kept the thing on a 500GB 5400rpm hard drive. I got at least 10 complaints about their slow Mac and many ended up switching to Windows. It was interesting to see, because most of them admitted to never using the CD drive nor the extra space, and IMO for the same price they would've been perfectly fine on a MacBook Air.
 
Windows is almost always the biggest catch. It's a terrible OS to work on. More or less depending on what exactly you do. For web development it's near to useless.

What issues do you see with webdev?

I go back and forth between the two so I purposely use tools that are cross platform so I can easily sync stuff like keybindings, snippets, etc. What am I missing out on by actively avoiding MacOS exclusive tools and workflows?
 
Well if people moving into MS will make Apple wake up and deliver on the Mac, I can say this is a good thing.

Nah, Apple will just discontinue some of the Macs like the Mac Pro and just say no one was buying them so it didn't make sense to make them. Even though the real reason is that people aren't going to pay today's prices for 3-4 year old hardware.
 
I personally like Apple's new laptops, especially Touch ID, but I also believe the price point and battery life are serious downsides. I feel as though Apple is changing to luxury for the few rather than what it was previously – luxury for the masses. If they couldn't have added the touch bar or Touch ID at the previous price point, they should have skipped it. And they should have included a larger battery. Thinness is actually very important to me, but at this point, I believe battery life is more important.
 
Yes I'm about to make the switch also to MS. More and more pros have to make this switch. The trash can mac is the same tech from 3 years ago!! Mac book pro without 32gb of ram!!! SAD!!
 
Hmmm. I have a 6+ year old Dell that I have upgraded through all the MS iterations since XP and am now on Windows 10. I have NONE of these problems that you mentioned, not one.

Similar here on far newer hardware. my Surface Book is now more stable than my Mac`s with this becoming evermore common.
Screen Shot 2016-12-07 at 22.38.28.png
Let alone system failures. Apple needs get back to what put Apple where it is today, quality & reliability, get off the thin & light fashion show circus. macOS should be released in a reasonable time frame, not the current bug ridden mess every 12 month`s for the sake of marketing & the iPhone.

20 years more with the Mac, only question Apple should be asking is why am I posting this from a Microsoft Surface Book....

Q-6
 
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For myself I am interested in taking a look at the Surface Pro 5 when it comes out in the spring, if I decide to replace my 13" MBP. It doesn't need to be replaced (it's a 2015) but in the past I've usually sold after two years of ownership leaving the buyer with a year left of AppleCare.
As for my Mac Mini, it's chugging along just fine, but when the time comes to replace it there simply isn't anything in Apple's current line-up to replace it with.
Too bad, I've probably bought a dozen or more Mac computers over the years, and got others to buy them as well.
Now I do not recommend them to others.
The situation of late is quite disappointing.
 
I don't imagine any long time Mac user switching to MS. Hello???. It's Windows we're talking about. It's not a hardware thing. It's the software that matters. I'd rather stick with an old mac than with any Windows computer.
Well. I never used a PC, Working already 28 years with Mac. If there is no serious Mac Pro (or maybe iMacPro) next year, it could be I'm switching to Microsoft.
 
Apple says the MBP set a record for sales and MSFT says the same thing about the Surface line. I guess they can both be true.

Apple should have stuck with the previous MBP price points with this update. The line would have been cheaper than much of the Surface line when similarly configured.
 
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May or may not be relevant, but since I got my Surface Pro 4 (10 days ago) and started to follow the Surface Reddit, almost daily I see one more former Mac user sharing stories about switching to Surface devices.

Apple only have themselves to blame for that. Their laurels in the computer space are well rested.
 
If this doesn't tell you we need touchscreen Macs now more than ever I don't know what to say.

Yes, touch does not work well on a computer OS but people are convinced that touch is the be-all-end-all and if your computer doesn't have it then it sucks.

The people have spoken, and it's time for Apple to respond and I don't mean with a gimmicky touch bar. Mac needs to make that transition and become more like iOS or else it's game over.

I prefer to keep it as is, mind you, but support for Mac is slipping and developers have already abandoned the Mac App Store. Switching to a full touch OS is the only way forward now, merging iOS and MacOS into one unified system is the future I'm afraid.

Ugh...we'll see what happens I guess.
 
What do you want ? A hug from some Apple employee ? Complimentary drinks by Apple ? A super innovation such as micro blender that spills juice from one of the usb-c ports?
No, just products that aren't five years behind the competition. i also don't need useless gimmicks (i.e. Touchbar - YAAAAAAY, not...). I especially don't need anymore ridiculous product launches where these rich San Fran CEOs are telling me why their new overpriced gizmo of theirs will change my life while the brainwashed attendees cheer mindless drones.
 
I'd like to see anyone here spend a day with a Surface studio. The puck wheel thing makes for a great Minority Report style demo, but it seems completely impractical for actual work.

Narrow thinking. It depends on what your work is. If you are a designer, photographer, or artist...its fantastic in design.
 
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