Microsoft Says 'Disappointment' of New MacBook Pro Has More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before

[robeddie]

You run the Mac into the ground, you drive away professionals.

You drive away professionals, the fewer developers make apps for iOS (which uses the Mac).

The fewer developers make apps for iOS, the lower sales you have (in your cash cow products, no less)

The lower sales you have across the board, the more developers have even less reason to develop for your platform.

The more developers have even less reason to develop for your platform, you slip into a deep sales slump.

You slip into a deep sales slump, you start canceling peripheral products and services in the ecosystem to "refocus."

You start canceling peripheral products and services in your ecosystem, you reduce your lock-in.

You reduce your lock-in, the more customers you lose to competing platforms.

The more customers you lose to competing platforms, the more cash you bleed out.

The more cash you bleed out, the more desperate you get with ever more gimmicky features.

The more desperate you get with ever more gimmicky features, the more your consumer brand image is damaged.

The more your consumer brand image is damaged, you become the laughing stock of the industry (such as RIM, Yahoo, old Apple).

You become the laughing stock of the industry and it's game over, man. GAME FREAKING OVER.

--

Apple isn't somehow different than any other company that has suffered a decline. Apple got lucky back in the 90s, plain and simple. Their phenomenal leader returned and it's a success story unlike we've ever seen. But they're not immune. I've seen many other companies wander down this path to irrelevancy after enormous success blinded them. It has happened before, and it will happen to most companies at some point. As far as tech companies go, Apple is pretty freaking old. It's surprising that they've survived this long. It's not too late to turn things around, but all I'm saying is that they're no longer heading in the right direction.

No professional ever said "Holy hell my computer isn't thin enough!" They say "Dammit this thing is too slow! And I've only got 30 minutes of battery life left. No no no!" You can't just keep going this long between updates to the Mac and expect Pros to stick around. We are always under pressure to make bigger and better projects at higher resolution than ever before and many of us regularly update our hardware. In just a few years we've gone from 18-22MP RAW photos being common to 50MP. We've gone from 1080p30 being common to 4K60 with HDR. We've gone from having to design non-responsive websites with one dimension to responsive websites with 4-6 breakpoint dimensions, which massively increases the working size of our design files. I understand part of it is Intel's problem, but part of it isn't—and I'm not just talking about restricting their specs by making it so thin. Apple has a successful chip design team making the various chips for iOS, tvOS and watchOS. They could solve the problem for the Mac if they put enough effort behind it. I hope they are.

+1. Very well considered.

 

[Trusteft]

Hey Microsoft. You and your big brother OS, can both suck my big fat thick mousepad.

 

[Martyimac]

No not really. Most of that stuff is years old and needs a update fella.
Camera - one is built in.
Why on earth are you using a USB 1 HDD for anything! they are 5mb/s pointless.
DVD! wow!
USB3 is backward compatible to all these... and again you have wires aleady - jsut buy new ones. they are all cheap. Dongles are not needed.
Thumbdrives cost dollars.

No, they don't need to be updated, They work just as well, AND just as fast as the day they were bought. As to why I am using a USB1 HDD, it's actually USB2 sorry, it just uses the USB1/2 connector. And I use it because it works very well, it is after all a SSD external hard drive.
See your problem is with your statement "jsut buy new ones. they are all cheap."
Ah so everything I own that's older than, lets say 4 years, should be replaced if the new stuff is cheaper? Sorry, I kind of like to plan my purchases to fit into my budget. But don't let me influence you, keep buying the best/newest/flashiest items because they are the best/newest/flashiest even though your older stuff still works just fine. Somebody will get a great deal when you sell your used stuff. In fact, keep me in mind when you want to sell your stuff. Send me a PM.

 

[yanksmc7]

Count me in! I loved and still do love my 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina display but I just switched to the Razer Blade 2016 w/ GTX 1060, i7 6700, 1tb SSD, and 16 gb of ram. I'm not looking back either. This is the one of the best laptops I've used. It's like a blacked out MacBook with beast performance. And for anyone who games alongside video editing or any other work, it's a no brainer.

 

[pat500000]

If Microsoft was Michael Jackson, they would have told Apple to beat it.

 

[kis]

The problem is the battery life is wildly unpredictable and I have had so many issues with just freezing

are you talking about the SP4 or the 2016 Macbook Pro? My 13" 2016 MBP has battery life anywhere between 3 and 8 hours - no obvious pattern to it. And I've had to reboot due to the graphics bug about 4 times since yesterday.

 

[skinned66]

Well. I never used a PC, Working already 28 years with Mac. If there is no serious Mac Pro (or maybe iMacPro) next year, it could be I'm switching to Microsoft.

I've only been for 10 but I've pretty much made up my mind already. Apple still has the chance to win me back. But if my MP and MBP stopped being able to be my daily drivers tomorrow those would be my last Apple computers for the foreseeable future. At that point I'd see no reason to update my iPhone or iPad either.

 

[tomtendo]

hahahahaha

Don't believe it for a second.

Then clearly you are a fanboy. It is clear as day that apple is struggling and doesn't care about innovating anymore. Tim just cares about profits. They forgot great products brought great profit. He's been riding the wave too long and its catching up.

 

[Mark Booth]

I purchased a refurbished 2015 13" MacBook Pro because I don't feel there's anything "pro" about the 2016 MacBook Pros. Apple blew it and it's costing them some of the respect the Pro community felt toward Macintosh.

Mark

 

[magicschoolbus]

I'll be buying a surface for my next computer. Apple has moved on from consumers like me.

 

[pika2000]

Meh. The Surface Book is only available in select developed markets. Show me your numbers Microsoft if you're so confident.

If I'm looking for a Windows laptop, my eye is on the LG gram. 15" laptop that is lighter than the Macbook Air. Now that's innovation. Surface Book is just so so once you go over its novelty feature and the brand.

 

[Art Mark]

Marketing BS. Try using a Surface for any of it's 'special' reasons and you'll see that combining touch in this way is a mess. But hey, let them celebrate. No ones has cared about Microsoft since the 90's.

 

[theluggage]

What are these mythical i/O devices you speak of?

Oh, lets see -

Devices I currently use that would rely on an adapter, dock or new cable to connect to USB-C:
About half a dozen portable hard drives
About half a dozen USB sticks
External keyboard & WiFi mouse dongle
Apple Cinema display with Displayport, USB-A and magsafe at work
Displayport monitor at home
Second displayport monitor at home (not connected to Mac now, but using this would be a big reason for Mac upgrade)
Epson scanner (only used occasionally, but when I need it, I need it)
Ethernet network
USB Microphone
iPad
Android phone
Motley bunch of Android tablets (with various connectors) used for a work project
CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive
USB3 hard drive dock
MiniDP-to-VGA dongle
SD/MicroSD/CF card reader

vs. Devices I currently use that are ready to connect directly to USB-C:
none (I counted, twice)

USB-C/TB3 devices I plan to buy (other than cables/adapters needed above):
Well, maybe a 4k/5k display... except all of the current models seem a bit crippled at the 'mo due to the lack of DisplayPort 1.3 and I'd expect an expensive 5k screen to last me for years, so I'd quite like to stick with my existing screens until Macs with DP1.3/Thunderbolt 4 comes out.

BLAH BLAH BLAH - I SAY THIS AND IT'S TRUE. WILL I BACK IT UP OR SHOW ANY PROOF OR FIGURES! NO. YOU WILL JUST BELIEVE ME. BLAH BLAH BLAH

A bit like Apples comments about Apple Watch sale, record pre-orders for new MBPs and all those magical products in the pipleline, then

1. LG Screen is actually VERY good looking in real life and is a pro screen.

...but with no alternative video inputs to let you display the output from non-TB3 devices & you'll still need docks/dongles because it only has USB-C outputs (because there's just no space on the back of a 27" screen) and... get this... the 4k, non-TB version has USB-C outputs which can only do USB2 speeds. OK, so the speed is a fundamental limitation of doing 4k@60Hz without TB3 (see note on lack of DisplayPort 1.3 above) but why put USB-C connectors on ports that are only useful for (cough) "legacy" USB-A peripherals?

D'Oh.

...although all that Apple-style 'our way or the highway' connectivity (other LG displays offer more) does suggest that the innards of the LG display was going to be an Apple Thunderbolt Display until they got the bill for making a nice metal case.

2. Dongles are not needed - just get ne cables

...because cables are given away for free, right? Oh, and some devices have captive cables (Apple Cinema Display is going to need a fugly double dongle arrangement, too, because the only USB-C-to-MiniDP socket adapter I can find is a no-name box with rubbish reviews.

Then there's all the other computers I have and still use from time to time, so I'd be continually swapping cables.

This dongle ******** is getting out of hand. Just buy a proper dock and you don't need anything else.

That is actually a great solution - buy a proper dock for my home desk and I'd just have to plug in a single cable and everything would be connected.

Oh, and another dock for my desk at work, or I'm now going to be carrying a dock back and forth every day and will still need to re-connect all the cables, which rather defeats the object.

Ah, wait, when I actually go on a trip I'm still going to need dongles or a mobile dock for when someone hands me a USB stick or I need to plug in to a projector (existing MiniDP adapters are landfill). Maybe Apple's USB-C multimedia adapter will fit that bill, plus now they've moved to a smart modern reversible connector I can use the same adapter for my iPad... what? sorry? Its not the same smart modern reversible connector as the iPad Pro I bought 8 months ago? Magical.

Sorry. If you really never need any USB-A, DisplayPort, ethernet etc. connections then enjoy using your 120Gbps of total TB3 I/O bandwidth... until the mobile GPU and CPU overheat and throttle or the 20% smaller battery (that relies on power saving in idle mode to get the same advertised life) runs flat.

Now, there's a list of grievances with the MS Surface Book and Surface Studio, too, but at least MS are trying to offer something different.

 

[HiRez]

So, what, 15 of them instead of 10?

 

[jlseattle]

I've lived through the whirlwind of Apple when a PC was the best thing out there (90's) and the growth of a great company in the 2000's. The current state of Apple is sad. It's back to it's old 90's days with dated and uninspired computers. Unfortunately Tim is riding on the skirt of Steve Job's work at Apple and I haven't seen the innovative leadership. The business units in Apple are too insular from each other. So one business unit gets lots of attention (iPhone/Apple Watch) and other business units like the desktops and laptops don't get attention.

I used to be excited to buy Apple products. I needed the latest greatest because they were so amazing. Now I am happy with what I have and don't need anything new from them. I don't want to buy a "ok" iMac. I'm not excited about that purchase. I own an MacBook pro. I don't want the new one. I'm not inspired by the touch bar. It's uninspired.

Why didn't they go with a iPad running iOS and MacOS? Why don't they rebuild the iMac with ultra flat screen and 30" (so I can use it as a TV or computer)? Why don't they work on that new and exciting things?

Why are they working on a car? They are sooooooooo diversified they can't create one great product anymore. I think they should split out the business units and let them run independently with their own research budgets, staff and such. Put innovative people to head each one and give some love to each. This current method isn't working Tim. I don't love PC's but the line is blurring between Macs and PC's. Oh well. Good things can't last forever. Maybe someone will come up with a new computer that will beat out both. We need innovative design, functionality, while selling creativity and exclusivity to it's users. Rant done.

 

[itguy06]

You didn't ask me, sorry, but I would like to answer this. What are these "mythical I/O devices? As I sit here at my desk at home, these are the current I/O devices I have that are either USB1, or non USB3/TB device. They are, 3 different monitors that don't support USB/TB, a portable DVD read/write drive, my external Time machine backup disc which is USB1, my Logitech mac compatible keyboard and mouse which uses the USB1 compatible unifying receiver, a mac compatible dasKeyboard that is not usb3/TB compatible, my B&W desktop speakers which are USB1 not 3 compatible. all my thumbdrives (7 at last count) that aren't USB3/TB compatible, my logitech camera/mic, and there are probably more. And these are items that are in almost constant daily use.

Do YOU understand now why there is such an uproar about USB3/TB being the only ports ?

How hard is it to plug in a hub that has the USB3/TB connection and a regular USB 3 then plug in your existing hub into that?
Like this guy: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Delivery-SuperSpeed-Specification-ChromeBook/dp/B018XF4KRC

Much ado about nothing.

 

[kis]

I don't see professionals who need power switching. The new MBP line is definitely more powerful. The Verge just posted a short article on how video editing is slower on the new Performance Base Surface Book.

that's only partly true - as long as you use Final Cut Pro, the MBP is faster. As soon as you use Adobe apps, the Surface Book runs circles around the MBP.

 

[dantastic]

I do hope this piece of news reach Timothy and the boys. Microsoft is making a lot of sense at the moment. Apple, not so much. Once upon a time I was happy to pay eye-watering amounts of money in 'Apple-tax' for things to just work. But as I'm finding myself with a broken eco system with bleeding nothing working I'd take a punt on the Surface if I was buying today.

 

[NT1440]

If this doesn't tell you we need touchscreen Macs now more than ever I don't know what to say.

Yes, touch does not work well on a computer OS but people are convinced that touch is the be-all-end-all and if your computer doesn't have it then it sucks.

The people have spoken, and it's time for Apple to respond and I don't mean with a gimmicky touch bar. Mac needs to make that transition and become more like iOS or else it's game over.

I prefer to keep it as is, mind you, but support for Mac is slipping and developers have already abandoned the Mac App Store. Switching to a full touch OS is the only way forward now, merging iOS and MacOS into one unified system is the future I'm afraid.

Ugh...we'll see what happens I guess.

.....People on forums are convinced that touchscreens are useful. People who actually own touch screen laptops (read: not frankenstein tablets) understand that they aren't very useful for more than the occasional zoom or click.

You're stating that MS having their biggest promotion ever is somehow the downfall of the Mac line. Surfaces just cracked the $1Billion revenue mark last year. Macs have been $3+ Billion per quarter for the last several years.

Not sure how this is the doom and gloom scenario that screams "Apple! the peoplez are demanding ********! Get to it".

 

[Art Mark]

love the surface pro and have had zero issues with the 20 we have in use here. it's an excellent laptop replacement but it's not as great as a tablet

What kind of issues were you expecting?

 

[gertruded]

You run the Mac into the ground, you drive away professionals.

You drive away professionals, the fewer developers make apps for iOS (which uses the Mac).

The fewer developers make apps for iOS, the lower sales you have (in your cash cow products, no less)

The lower sales you have across the board, the more developers have even less reason to develop for your platform.

The more developers have even less reason to develop for your platform, you slip into a deep sales slump.

You slip into a deep sales slump, you start canceling peripheral products and services in the ecosystem to "refocus."

You start canceling peripheral products and services in your ecosystem, you reduce your lock-in.

You reduce your lock-in, the more customers you lose to competing platforms.

The more customers you lose to competing platforms, the more cash you bleed out.

The more cash you bleed out, the more desperate you get with ever more gimmicky features.

The more desperate you get with ever more gimmicky features, the more your consumer brand image is damaged.

The more your consumer brand image is damaged, you become the laughing stock of the industry (such as RIM, Yahoo, old Apple).

You become the laughing stock of the industry and it's game over, man. GAME FREAKING OVER.

--

Apple isn't somehow different than any other company that has suffered a decline. Apple got lucky back in the 90s, plain and simple. Their phenomenal leader returned and it's a success story unlike we've ever seen. But they're not immune. I've seen many other companies wander down this path to irrelevancy after enormous success blinded them. It has happened before, and it will happen to most companies at some point. As far as tech companies go, Apple is pretty freaking old. It's surprising that they've survived this long. It's not too late to turn things around, but all I'm saying is that they're no longer heading in the right direction.

No professional ever said "Holy hell my computer isn't thin enough!" They say "Dammit this thing is too slow! And I've only got 30 minutes of battery life left. No no no!" You can't just keep going this long between updates to the Mac and expect Pros to stick around. We are always under pressure to make bigger and better projects at higher resolution than ever before and many of us regularly update our hardware. In just a few years we've gone from 18-22MP RAW photos being common to 50MP. We've gone from 1080p30 being common to 4K60 with HDR. We've gone from having to design non-responsive websites with one dimension to responsive websites with 4-6 breakpoint dimensions, which massively increases the working size of our design files. I understand part of it is Intel's problem, but part of it isn't—and I'm not just talking about restricting their specs by making it so thin. Apple has a successful chip design team making the various chips for iOS, tvOS and watchOS. They could solve the problem for the Mac if they put enough effort behind it. I hope they are.

Exactly. But they are doing just what they planned. They are not making mistakes, they are now playing a different game.

The financial boys are harvesting Apple. They are maximizing stock price with short term "profits" and stock buybacks and then selling. Harvesting companies is the Wall Street way to go.

 

[robeddie]

The Surface Book rocks. Surface studio is far more innovative than the iMac.

All Apple does lately is Thinner. Ive doesn't even understand that on a "pro" laptop other features rank above Thinner in priority. On a desktop Thinner doesn't even make sense. The user cannot see all the Thinner while using it, and it forces all the ports to the back so you have to stand up and give you're computer a reach around just to plug in a damn flash drive! Stupid, stupid stupid!

Higher prices for thinner, more docks and dongles, and less features. Think Stupid™.

Agreed. Thinner on a desktop, which you don't see when using it, and when it resulted in less ability to upgrade ram and hard drive, is positively idiotic.
When Apple released those redesigned iMacs back in 2013 it gave me a bad feeling - that the form over function customers had won the day with Apple. Boy has that turned out to be the case in the subsequent 3 years.

 

[OzyOly]

Well, that's a bold statement.

Not that they're wrong.

Yeah, for once the M$ marketing team are not exaggerating. Apple need to sort out the battery issues.

 

[kb3tzt]

I feel that following would have been the optimal thing for Apple and us customers.

- The "new" 2016 Macbook Pro should have been a new "Air" or just Macbook. Kept the Magsafe.
- The 2016 Macbook Pro should have just updated the 2015 model internals and display with existing form factor but other USB-A -> USB-C/TB3
- iPhone 7 with USB-C instead of lightning.

Most of the people would have been happier.

no they wouldn't. they still complain about the lack of embracing new technology. it still wouldn't be what "they" wanted. maybe if apple would have installed a tissue holder and tear removal support for their crying and whimpering they would be happier. no, they wouldn't... forgot the toilet paper holder. Enjoy your windows... as if you dig deep enough you'll find the very computer left behind policy ms is going to be adopting soon... enjoy!! (hmm.. think windows 10 free for a reason!!)

 

[pat500000]

Apple didn't say "best selling".. Best "online sales". Quite the difference. Especially when remembering buying online *was the only way*.

But Theystated "amazing."