Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Honestly the XBox Live children really get on my nerves, that is one reason I like PS3, seems to be less of 'them'.

Also annoying is that they incorporated Engadget commenting directly into Xbox Live.

At least I assume they did, as that's about the quality of commentary you find on the Engadget boards...
 
Also annoying is that they incorporated Engadget commenting directly into Xbox Live.

At least I assume they did, as that's about the quality of commentary you find on the Engadget boards...

Haha I never thought of that before but you're right the Engadget quality comments are identical to that of XBox Live.

(Disclaimer: I own both XBox and PS3 so I don't have the "I own _____ so I hate _____" bias)
 
I've been to it. It was open almost two years before the first Apple store opened in May, 2001.

So who is copping who again?

No one is claiming that Apple invented the idea of the retail store, but come on, look at the plans for these new Microsoft stores - it's so obvious that they're photocopying Apple store blueprints it's embarrassing.

Guru Bar? Theater?
 
XBox 360 makes them money, you won't want to hear it but its true.

Sounds like somebody has no idea what "makes money" means. The Xbox crusade is billions in the hole since they started. BILLIONS. MS fanboys (to use a word popular with their crowd) like to crow about how Microsoft now sells consoles at a profit, failing to admit that that meager profit will never compensate for all the previous losses before they release the Xbox 720 (or whatever) and start the bloodletting all over again. It's a business model from Hell.

Microsoft and Sony are fighting a war where even if you win, you lose. Meanwhile, Nintendo is quietly dominating the market (and making a fortune doing so) with its underpowered little console that could.

That MS shareholders tolerate these outrageously expensive quests for street cred with the younger set is baffling. Somebody squirt me a sad song please!
 
Is this a sign that Microsoft is really concerned about Apple? When you've got 95% of the market share, on a platform that pretty much locks you into buying more products from the same company, is it really necessary to spend millions of dollars on stores to promote yourself? Doesn't virtually every household already own some sort of Microsoft product? It sounds to me like they're desperate to keep themselves in the public spotlight.

You see 95% market share in the operating system market (although in the USA, it seems to be lower). But there are other considerations: The Macs strength in the home market means that more and more people know that there is a better alternative to Windows. And they are causing trouble for Microsoft. It is all good and well IT being behind Microsoft because it means job security. But Microsoft is not the winner anymore that the people who have the say want to be associated with. With Vista, Microsoft has gained a reputation as a loser that cannot deliver, while Apple is the new kid who gets it all right. Do you think Apple would sell tens of thousands of iPhones into some companies without someone in power in that company being behind it?

Apple has taken more than 90 percent in the above $1000 category for laptops. In other words, Apple alone sucks up all the profits in the computer market. That is bad news for Microsoft's partners, and consequently bad news for Microsoft. You can't sell an OS forever if the hardware makers don't make money. And you can't keep your OS prices and software prices high if they cost more than the hardware already.
 
MSN=almost dead
XBox 360=Loss Leader. Why do you think Microsoft bought Bungie? This is wear they make their money on the 360.
XBox Live=Keep up with Sony.
Office: Stale growth from t all the free office software coming online. Business also not upgrading Office & Windows+PCs because of the economic downturn.

Plus with MS don't believe the press releases until you actually see the product. Even long term PC users will tell you this.

Most consoles (PS3 & 360) are a loss leader & have always been since the PS2 for the first couple of years. The 360 since at least a year ago is profitable...

XBOX Live: Keeping up with sony, now that's funny. You obviously have never used Live... Multi player games out sale PS3 games just due to Live...

Office: Plain n simple its a cash cow for ms...
 
Anytime I hear someone state that Microsoft is dying, I just assume that they are either a) An MS Basher b) Still in school c) Don't work in an office d) Completely oblivious to computer technology and/or corporate IT, though they probably wouldn't make such a statement unless for the sake of bashing

Dying can be a slow, slow, process. The Roman Empire took hundreds of years to die. Microsoft will be quicker.
 
Sounds like somebody has no idea what "makes money" means. The Xbox crusade is billions in the hole since they started. BILLIONS. MS fanboys (to use a word popular with their crowd) like to crow about how Microsoft now sells consoles at a profit, failing to admit that that meager profit will never compensate for all the previous losses before they release the Xbox 720 (or whatever) and start the bloodletting all over again. It's a business model from Hell.

Does anyone have any numbers around the development costs and the revenue MS generates from Xbox and Xbox 360 sales, peripherals, Xbox live and their share of the software sales?

I'd be interested to see them as I think MS are still in the red but a cost versus projected benefits curve would be good to see.

The Macs strength in the home market means that more and more people know that there is a better alternative to Windows. And they are causing trouble for Microsoft.

Hmm... I wouldn't call a 2% global increase in share over the last two years that significant.

It is all good and well IT being behind Microsoft because it means job security. But Microsoft is not the winner anymore that the people who have the say want to be associated with. With Vista, Microsoft has gained a reputation as a loser that cannot deliver, while Apple is the new kid who gets it all right.

Perhaps. W7 seems to have blown that away though - corporate adoption surveys show nearly 50% adoption of W7 by end 2010. Those are insane numbers and better than anything I've seen before. As for job security, it's not that, it's just that the competition doesn't have a credible proposition for most large scale companies just now. As for Apple always getting it right, I think Mobile Me sort of tarnished that image a bit.

Do you think Apple would sell tens of thousands of iPhones into some companies without someone in power in that company being behind it?

True but how does this compare to the Blackberry and WinMo penetration rate in these companies?

Apple has taken more than 90 percent in the above $1000 category for laptops. In other words, Apple alone sucks up all the profits in the computer market.

In retail. In the US only. I'd be interested to se ehow Mac revenue and profit matches up against, say, Alienware or Rock laptops.

That is bad news for Microsoft's partners, and consequently bad news for Microsoft.

How so since MS makes the same fee from a $400 laptop as it does from a $1,000 laptop? I suppose some might come equipped with Ultimate but I'd bet most have HP on them.

You can't sell an OS forever if the hardware makers don't make money. And you can't keep your OS prices and software prices high if they cost more than the hardware already.

Looking at the major OEMs results it seem that they are making money although times are pretty tough. That'll change though.

Dying can be a slow, slow, process. The Roman Empire took hundreds of years to die. Microsoft will be quicker.

Sure. The two certainties in life are death and taxes. That applies to every company though, Apple included.
 
Sounds like somebody has no idea what "makes money" means. The Xbox crusade is billions in the hole since they started. BILLIONS. MS fanboys (to use a word popular with their crowd) like to crow about how Microsoft now sells consoles at a profit, failing to admit that that meager profit will never compensate for all the previous losses before they release the Xbox 720 (or whatever) and start the bloodletting all over again. It's a business model from Hell.

Microsoft and Sony are fighting a war where even if you win, you lose. Meanwhile, Nintendo is quietly dominating the market (and making a fortune doing so) with its underpowered little console that could.

That MS shareholders tolerate these outrageously expensive quests for street cred with the younger set is baffling. Somebody squirt me a sad song please!
Yup Nintendo is owning them both with fairly underpowered hardware. Which is why they claim the hardware cycle is now 10 years. They plan on making money one way or another. Nintendo isn't likely to upgrade the Wii (hardware) either during this period. It could be possible that apple could offer some hardware that could rival MS and Sony, yet retain profitability. They just need a compelling experience (both online and offline).


MS shareholders see value in it for the same reason why Apple all of a sudden sees value in it. Games (in the long run) makes money for the owner of the platform, lots of money.
 
Nintendo isn't likely to upgrade the Wii (hardware) either during this period.

I hope you're wrong on this. Such an approach would be insanity. I enjoy my Wii, yet look with envy at the visuals, sound, and online play of the PS3 and the 360.

And since I don't buy Microsoft products (personal principle), and Sony have demonstrated an epic level of buffoonery in this console cycle, I feel slighted of options. I'd love to see a Wii HD, but I fear that you're right about Nintendo milking mediocrity as long as possible.

I'll probably end up with a PS3 slim at some point, but with serious reservations. Sad that the only player I support in this fight (Nintendo) is sticking with the "good enough is good enough" approach. Can you imagine Super Mario Galaxy in HD? I can now:

http://www.gearlive.com/gallery/category/C133

Too bad it's just a hypothetical.

Games (in the long run) makes money for the owner of the platform, lots of money.

In the case of Microsoft and Sony, in the VERY long run apparently.
 
You forgot what you were talking about?

No, I mean who are "we" and what are "we" waiting for?

If you mean MS and Sony waiting for profitability on their game consoles, seems once they reach it they'll just turn around and release new consoles and start the losses all over again. It's like a screwed up version of the razor and blades business model where you have to sell a billion blades to make up for your losses on the razor (especially when that razor keeps RROD'ing on you and you have to fix or replace it under an ever-expanding warranty period).

Or by "we" do you mean Wii owners who should keep waiting for 21st century graphics and sound?
 
I enjoy my Wii, yet look with envy at the visuals, sound, and online play of the PS3 and the 360.

Amen to this. The Wii reminds me of the N64 as far as graphics go. I play my PS3/360 then go use someone's Wii and it looks like I took a time machine back 10 years ago.
 
I hope you're wrong on this. Such an approach would be insanity. I enjoy my Wii, yet look with envy at the visuals, sound, and online play of the PS3 and the 360.

And since I don't buy Microsoft products (personal principle), and Sony have demonstrated an epic level of buffoonery in this console cycle, I feel slighted of options. I'd love to see a Wii HD, but I fear that you're right about Nintendo milking mediocrity as long as possible.

I'll probably end up with a PS3 slim at some point, but with serious reservations. Sad that the only player I support in this fight (Nintendo) is sticking with the "good enough is good enough" approach. Can you imagine Super Mario Galaxy in HD? I can now:

http://www.gearlive.com/gallery/category/C133

Too bad it's just a hypothetical.



In the case of Microsoft and Sony, in the VERY long run apparently.
In an odd way Nintendo did it right. They focused on a different experience where MS and Sony just (mainly) focused on graphics. As long as Nintendo is selling a half million DSs and a quarter million Wiis a month (in just the US alone) they have no reason to change.
 
In an odd way Nintendo did it right.

I agree 100%, it seems Nintendo are the only ones with a clue as far as the business side of things goes. And now Microsoft is trying to get in on the sweet Nintendo action with Project Natal, which will almost certainly be another money loser. Don't forget hardcore 360 gamers hate "flail" right?

Their attempt at targeting the family market (Viva Piñata - including TV show!) flopped, and their new Mii-clone avatars surely can't impress the trash-talking Xbox Live fanatics. There seems to be a noticeable amount of "flail" in Microsoft's marketing of this thing.

And Sony...well, they pretty much own a monopoly on the term "self-destruction" these days.

That said, how many years can Nintendo go with standard-def graphics, weak audio, and embarrassingly bad online play?
 
I agree 100%, it seems Nintendo are the only ones with a clue as far as the business side of things goes. And now Microsoft is trying to get in on the sweet Nintendo action with Project Natal, which will almost certainly be another money loser. Don't forget hardcore 360 gamers hate "flail" right?

Their attempt at targeting the family market (Viva Piñata - including TV show!) flopped, and their new Mii-clone avatars surely can't impress the trash-talking Xbox Live fanatics. There seems to be a noticeable amount of "flail" in Microsoft's marketing of this thing.

And Sony...well, they pretty much own a monopoly on the term "self-destruction" these days.

That said, how many years can Nintendo go with standard-def graphics, weak audio, and embarrassingly bad online play?

Another 5, cause no one that buys a Wii cares (based on US sales thus far).
 
An Idea

"there's not much else Apple can do to improve their stores other than perhaps more floor space, a workshop theatre in all stores and trainers that know all their apps (wouldn't hurt if the sales people know a bit about those pro apps)"

Well, they could improve their stores if they made their genius bars "topless".....to let in more light...of course ;)
 
Another 5, cause no one that buys a Wii cares (based on US sales thus far).

Imagine the can of whoopass Nintendo could open up on MS/Sony by throwing in a better graphics processor now and a good online play system. Nintendo could build 360-equivalent hardware and sell it at a profit today, not having to wait 5 years to break even like in Microsoft and Sony's business plans. That would be a beautiful thing to see.

And DVD playback would be easy (and nice) too...
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.