Microsoft Surface Beats iPad in Design, Productivity, and Accessory Use in New J.D. Power Study

[GeneralChang]

Even the PC is developed enough. And in addition a PC can be upgraded regularly. I own a lot of PCs and the latest one is from 2013 which I keep upgrading for 4 years and a XPS from 2009 and both are on the latest 2016 class hardware.

Windows has more games than iOS. Windows has more flexibility in entertainment. The only issue is that there isnt a single tablet in the sub 10 inch range. Surface is too heavy which doesnt make it optimal for consumption. A Windows tablet with iPad level weight is a Day 1 buy for me.

Microsoft is trying to get Windows to run on ARM. Its going to happen some day and the day that happens its all over for iPad. Full featured Windows on a 9.7 inch is the future

Whoa! Hang on just two shakes. You've got an XPS from 2009 that's running the latest 2016 hardware? So DDR5 RAM? And I'm pretty sure the processor socket for Intel chips has changed twice since 2009...

Also, there are literally dozens of 10-inch range Windows tablets! Mostly using Intel chips (Atom), meaning x86 instruction set, so yes it's a full version of Windows. And like I said, I don't think it's as great as you want it to be.

Also, Windows has run on ARM before (Windows RT). Yes, I know, it wasn't a full version. But really all it was lacking was developer support... which baring some impressive emulation (not impossible, just difficult) is going to be an issue for all ARM Windows implementations. Probably one of the reasons that Apple decided to just roll a new OS from the kernel up instead of from the UI down, so devs would know they were going to be starting over from scratch as well.

 

[Guy Clark]

No doubt paid by Microsoft.....

 

[yakapo]

I love how Phil said "you can't design for both touch and pointer devices." I have a Surface Pro 4 and it's way better than any iPad I ever owned.

Hmm... I've been using Ipads since they were first released. I recently sold my ipad air 2 with the intention of buying a 12.9" ipad pro with the apple keyboard. I hardly use my macbook air anymore. Maybe I need to consider a surface pro 4 instead? I wonder if less popular pc apps will work with a touch interface?

 

[tecchi]

As someone who just switched to iPad Pro 12.9 from Windows 10 tablet I would have to say, nope, not so in my opinion.

It is nice to run a full desktop but it doesn't work right switching between desktop and tablet modes. Also it slows down horribly over time as Windows tends to do as it gets more and more bloated. Some models have really noisy fans that turn on. The iPad pro does not have a fan. I was in a meeting with someone who was using one and the fan turned on. It was difficult to hear in the meeting from time to time because of the fan. It was a serious distraction.

Yes, having a desktop and tablet combined is nice, however the drawbacks is Windows 10. It's a hot mess.

Not every Windows tablet is a "Microsoft Surface". Have you used it?

 

[GeneralChang]

Hmm... I've been using Ipads since they were first released. I recently sold my ipad air 2 with the intention of buying a 12.9" ipad pro with the apple keyboard. I hardly use my macbook air anymore. Maybe I need to consider a surface pro 4 instead? I wonder if less popular pc apps will work with a touch interface?

As an avid user of less popular PC apps and the dubious owner of a few touch-based Win10 devices, I'll just pipe up here to say, no. They probably don't support a touch interface. But Microsoft's first party apps are pretty good.

 

[Soccertess]

It's so true. We have to give Nadella credit! He did a good job and Tim has ridden on Steve Job's coattails.

Good job Nadella!

 

[Radon87000]

None of that is relevant to what is better for specific people doing specific tasks. Surface is not better depending on your use case and can in fact be an inferior experience to even an iPad 2.

Surface does everything an iPad can. An iPad can't do everything a Surface can

My world isn't limited to games, diet, Heath, exercise are amongst the other things. With 2.2 million vs .66 million iTunes App Store has 3 times as many apps as windows with developers making the most money on the iOS App Store.

Install Bluestacks and get the entire Android ecosystem at your disposal. And that's in addition to all the desktop apps since 2000. If I compare the Win32apps and UWP apps vs the App Store the App Store loses

Windows bogs down after a year of use if you don't get a virus that scuttles your
Installation or a boss that causes a boot sector corruption. And running the latest windows on old hardware is a no go as pc world has proven.

If you use a a bit of common sense you won't get infected as my PC hasn't been infected since 8 years and I don't use any antivirus. And in my family those who clutter up the PC with viruses and the like I have installed Norton and haven't faced any issues

You mean that PC world test which used a PC from 2006(that's 11 years old) and a netbook (which is not designed for anything other than web browsing) How about you test a normal laptop/desktop from 2009?

When I'm on a 6 hour flight I care less about running sap. What I care about is the 10 hour battery life on my iPad, vs the 4 hour batter life in my surface pro.

Get a Surface 3 for battery life. It's battery life matches the iPad Pro with 10 hours

The games imo are better on iOS, these days. With my iPad I can use the accelerometer while holding the iPad in my hands moving it about, sp4 is heavy as noted.

I can play full blown PC games like Need for Speed and Battlefield 3 on a Surface which wipes the floor with all your App Store games

Content consumption is a big part of the appeal of an ipad, whine it's true I can't run a market simulation on my iPad or program in dot net, there are many apps for creating all sorts of content. And as far as web browsing I never felt the need to use anything else other than Safari. One anecdotal experience vs another.

I understand paying till 600 for consumption but beyond 600 that's venturing into Surface territory

Exactly, good for me. Apple again listened to its customers and produced a product I wanted to buy. Don't need all the bells and whistles of the high end for my uses.

And the Air 2 was not a high end tablet. I assure you this product is not going to halt the iPad decline until Apple improves the part of the iPad which desperately needs improvement and that's the software. Apple could offer me a A15 CPU Air 2 yet I wouldn't buy it as performance is good enough

Pc worlds pc running Windows 10 agrees with me. In this instance I trust pc world.

Using a PC from 2006 and a netbook? Are we really going to use them as benchmarks?

Does batter life best iPad Air 2?

Both have 10 hour battery life

lose big time if I try to use my sp4 in the way I use my iPad. Too heavy, too bulky and poor battery life.

You should have bought the Surface 3 if you cared about weight battery life and cost

I have to wonder if the amount of money I spent on our sp4, could get two high end laptops.

The amount I spent on my 7 Plus I could have gotten 2 high end graphic cards. The amount I spent on PCs till date. I could have gotten a car

It's true I can make phone calls on my iPad with 10.3 based on my appleid without wifi. Something can't do on sp4.

It's in the pipeline if you have a Windows 10 Mobile

Realistically no windows laptop can touch the battery life of an iPad.

The XPS 13 has 11 hour battery life with constant use

Good luck with an arm implementation. There will be sufficient compromises, will be called windows lite

They already tried that and failed with Windows RT. This time they are going after the real deal

Surface will never do anything except inch up in popularity.

Because there is only one way it can go just like Windows 10 Mobile

Lol, I can guarantee it will because Apple is in a big time roll. Revenue, profits and stock price.

iPad will remain stuck in a limbo until Apple gets around to giving it some love. It's been 2 years since the 12.9 has been updated. I have feeling the iPad is going the Mac way.

Surface is expensive for what you get, won't buy another one. My iPad is a great consumption device as well as a phone; you got that right.

Surface is expensive as it's a very good computer and not a toy

Sure, if the surface was lighter, better battery life and less expensive the equation would be different. But there is reality.

Surface 3 is available at 469

 

[melendezest]

The refrigerator and toaster hybrid just beat Apple.

You were wrong Tim, people DO want that s***t.

Hopefully Microsoft will advertise this win like crazy so that Apple gets its head out.

The iPad is fantastic, and fantastically crippled by its OS and hardware choices.

If, IF Apple reacts to this it won't be overnight, primarily because the iPhone is their main concern, and is in my opinion the anchor that is keeping the iPad from being the one-size-fits-all device it could become.

Add a Finder, lift restrictions, demand universal apps, add HW expansion/access slots, and let me reinstall the OS Version that came with my device now and FOREVER. FOR STARTERS.

 

[niun]

Owning a Surface Pro 3, 4, Surface Book and iPad Pro.. Yeah. I totally agree with this.

iOS for iPad Pro needs to take a radically different path. iOS Pro?

 

[Radon87000]

Whoa! Hang on just two shakes. You've got an XPS from 2009 that's running the latest 2016 hardware? So DDR5 RAM? And I'm pretty sure the processor socket for Intel chips has changed twice since 2009...

It originally came with Nehalem. Since then I opened it up and upgraded to Bulldozer,Sandy Bridge and currently Skylake. The graphics card is a little old. It's the AMD 7850. Modding PCs is fun! My next update for it is planned once coffeelake drops

Also, there are literally dozens of 10-inch range Windows tablets! Mostly using Intel chips (Atom), meaning x86 instruction set, so yes it's a full version of Windows. And like I said, I don't think it's as great as you want it to be.

Also, Windows has run on ARM before (Windows RT). Yes, I know, it wasn't a full version. But really all it was lacking was developer support... which baring some impressive emulation (not impossible, just difficult) is going to be an issue for all ARM Windows implementations. Probably one of the reasons that Apple decided to just roll a new OS from the kernel up instead of from the UI down, so devs would know they were going to be starting over from scratch as well.

All Windows tablets apart from Surface have crap displays. Surface is the only Windows tablet whose display competes with iPad. I meant Microsoft is trying to get full Windows to run on ARM

 

[cool8man]

Windows 10 on ARM is much better than Windows RT. They have ported the entire desktop OS to run on ARM. They now have cellular integrated because they're using Snapdragon chips instead of Nvidia Tegra. Most importantly they created a Win32 emulator built-in so that all Windows programs can run on these new mobile devices. There is no justification to call this Windows Lite anymore than you would call a PC with Atom/CoreM/Pentium "Windows Lite." You are getting the full 64-bit OS unlike Windows RT or Windows Mobile.

Well duh, iOS is gimps the possibilities of the iPad Pro, and the Surface comes with a stylus and a keyboard included (whereas the iPad "PRO" doesn't).

I sure as hell wouldn't consider a tablet that had no accessible file system, did not come with a drawing tool or a keyboard as a "pro system". No matter how nice it looks, or how well the OS is designed. the iPad Pro will always be gimped by iOS.

Surface comes with the stylus, no keyboard. Keyboard is extra like iPad Pro.
[doublepost=1491578795][/doublepost]I'm glad to see Microsoft get some credit finally for the Surface Pro and Windows 10 on tablets. That being said I have always preferred Apple's thin metal tablet designs. For my money the best compromise of the two products is the Huawei Matebook followed by the Samsung Galaxy TabPro or GalaxyBook. These new Windows 10 tablets are as thin, elegant and light as an iPad Pro, but have most of the functionality of a Surface Pro.

 

[niun]

No doubt paid by Microsoft.....

This post is sponsored by Apple.inc

 

[upnorth85]

I love my iPad (browse the web, Netflix, etc...) but anything outside of that, I go to my Mac. The iPad is gimped by iOS. I know Apple's mentality is to make iOS simple but as years go on, there will be more tech-savvy people; the old generation who never used computers will be going away.

Prime example of gimping: viewing files. I don't want Finder on my iPad but I hate how files live in apps in iOS. For example, I have documents created in Pages and in Word. Why can't I just see all my documents in one view? Or if I delete Pages, I will lose all my Pages' documents (unless I move them one by one).

On my iPad, I use One Drive and have linked all my Apps to it. So none of my data resides within the Apps. It resides in OneDrive. You can also do it with Dropbox.

 

[rowspaxe]

When using Windows it feels like I am not being restricted by anything. Downloads, file organisation, custom apps, desktop class applications. Its all there.

I agree the surface is the more capable device, but i like the ipad as the ultimate thin client: instant on, long battery, great pen (pencil), oneNote, art apps. I use it as a complimentary device and do all my mail and heavier tasks--including 3d, programming, etc--an a windows laptop. Both great products.

 

[6foot5foot]

Apple have created TWO distinctly different, but both independently capable and beautiful platforms; iPad and Mac. You choose the one you want, and not the one you don't.

If you have enough energy to sit on a forum 12 hours a day arguing the toss, you certainly have enough energy to lift and carry an incredibly lightweight MacBook/(Pro) which would eliminate your need to feel hampered by iOS, and negate your need to bemoan the absence of the mistake which would be a kludged hybrid OS device, which it's acutely clear to anyone with half a modicum of common sense, would be a horrendous lack of vision and a gargantuan compromise on the part of Apple.

If you need a screwdriver you buy one, and if you need a power drill you buy one. If you're too stupid to see the power of iOS, leave the iPad purchases to those who know the differences between it and macOS, and whom can fully utilise and optimise their use of both... those of us who understand where each has its place, but also how each compliments the other without trying to BE the other, poorly.

 

[Tinmania]

It's like I said - the people moaning about the lack of legacy PC features are the minority here. They just don't know it yet.

2010 just called. They want you to stop using their "post PC era" gibberish as it's painfully embarrassing to be confronted with the fact that it never happened, in 2017.



Mike

 

[I7guy]

Surface does everything an iPad can. An iPad can't do everything a Surface can

No it can't. 10 hour battery life, make phone calls, use of specialty b/t pencil, 2.2 million apps to name a few.

Install Bluestacks and get the entire Android ecosystem at your disposal. And that's in addition to all the desktop apps since 2000. If I compare the Win32apps and UWP apps vs the App Store the App Store loses

None of that makes a case for windows or an sp4 over an iPad.

If you use a a bit of common sense you won't get infected as my PC hasn't been infected since 8 years and I don't use any antivirus. And in my family those who clutter up the PC with viruses and the like I have installed Norton and haven't faced any issues

I've cleaned up quite a few windows viral infections, so great for you you haven't been infected.

You mean that PC world test which used a PC from 2006(that's 11 years old) and a netbook (which is not designed for anything other than web browsing) How about you test a normal laptop/desktop from 2009?

Yes, the test where windows 10 churned.

Get a Surface 3 for battery life. It's battery life matches the iPad Pro with 10 hours

So now I need to get older hardware for good battery life on Microsofts product. Never an issue with iPads.

I can play full blown PC games like Need for Speed and Battlefield 3 on a Surface which wipes the floor with all your App Store games

Great, that's your use case, not mine.

I understand paying till 600 for consumption but beyond 600 that's venturing into Surface territory

It's more than consumption for 600. The iPad Pro is a beautiful device for artistic people as well as those who want a top notch artistic creation device.

And the Air 2 was not a high end tablet. I assure you this product is not going to halt the iPad decline until Apple improves the part of the iPad which desperately needs improvement and that's the software. Apple could offer me a A15 CPU Air 2 yet I wouldn't buy it as performance is good enough

The new iPads will rue around the slump and sales will rocket skyward.

Using a PC from 2006 and a netbook? Are we really going to use them as benchmarks?

Not my article I'm just reporting the finding.

Both have 10 hour battery life

Still doesnt do as good a job as an iPad.

You should have bought the Surface 3 if you cared about weight battery life and cost

Typical of Microsoft products, low cost, fast, good battery life. Pick two out of three.

The amount I spent on my 7 Plus I could have gotten 2 high end graphic cards. The amount I spent on PCs till date. I could have gotten a car

The way you spend your money is not my concern.

It's in the pipeline if you have a Windows 10 Mobile

Good luck with that, we'll see where it goes.

The XPS 13 has 11 hour battery life with constant use

iPad pro is still better in a lot of ways.

They already tried that and failed with Windows RT. This time they are going after the real deal

Only time will tell if they are successful, but I'm guesssing not.

iPad will remain stuck in a limbo until Apple gets around to giving it some love. It's been 2 years since the 12.9 has been updated. I have feeling the iPad is going the Mac way.

$329 price should jump start sales. Hopefully Timmy will figure out a way out of Jobs mess.

Surface is expensive as it's a very good computer and not a toy

Other than form factor it's not outstanding in any one area.

Surface 3 is available at 469

Again that's the Microsoft choice, to get what you want you have to buy an inferior product by today's standards.

 

[niun]

It's more than consumption for 600. The iPad Pro is a beautiful device for artistic people as well as those who want a top notch artistic creation device.

Until you have to jump between that and Photoshop, Manga Studio etc to actually finish the work off.

The iPad Pro is a decent sketch pad (although personally I hate the pencil dancing over the glass screen and then stuck in quicksand when it hits a finger smudge).

 

[GeneralChang]

It originally came with Nehalem. Since then I opened it up and upgraded to Bulldozer,Sandy Bridge and currently Skylake. The graphics card is a little old. It's the AMD 7850. Modding PCs is fun! My next update for it is planned once coffeelake drops

So let me get this straight: You have a Dell XPS laptop that came with a Nehalem chip running with a Skylake chip. I had assumed you meant a laptop, since that's what most of the XPS line has been, but given this clarification I guess you meant one of the desktops.

Of course, the fact that it's running Skylake means you have a Dell XPS case that internally has been completely swapped out for a newer computer. Of course it still runs fine, it's a 2015/2016 computer, not 2009.

 

[DrumApple]

The iPad runs full programs and does have a file system. But that's besides the point, which you seem to miss anyway.

The iPad is an optimal choice for most users. There's obviously going to be use cases where one needs a Mac or Windows computer for their tasks.
[doublepost=1491504937][/doublepost]

Yet iPad still outsells most PCs from most manufacturers.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid!

 

[GeneralChang]

All Windows tablets apart from Surface have crap displays. Surface is the only Windows tablet whose display competes with iPad. I meant Microsoft is trying to get full Windows to run on ARM

I know what you meant concerning ARM, what I was pointing out is that unless they can sort out basically flawless x86 emulation on their ARM version (not impossible as I said, but certainly difficult considering the current capabilities of ARM chips), they'll always run into the roadblock of getting devs onboard whether it's a full version of Windows or not.

And having used these tiny tablets alongside a Surface Pro 4, I don't think the issue was with the display quality, to me the issue seemed to be with the interface on a display that size. Full Windows 10, at this point, really doesn't work on a sub-10-inch touchscreen. The Surface is about as small as I'd want to go.
[doublepost=1491582591][/doublepost]

2010 just called. They want you to stop using their "post PC era" gibberish as it's painfully embarrassing to be confronted with the fact that it never happened, in 2017.

Android is the most popular OS in the world for accessing the internet. I think the "post PC era" is happening, it's just happening with smartphones instead of tablets. So yeah, the guy arguing that iPads are the future of computers is probably missing the point (they're a supplementary device through and through), but to say that the nature of personal computers isn't changing drastically is also missing the point.

 

[0lf]

Owning a SP2 and an iPad air 2, I can see how surface is better when used as a notebook and iPad is better when used as a tablet.
Owning a SP2 and a macbook, I can see how surface is better as a tablet and macbook better as a notebook-laptop.
That is why I moved from Microsoft hardware to Apple hardware.

 

[I7guy]

I know what you meant concerning ARM, what I was pointing out is that unless they can sort out basically flawless x86 emulation on their ARM version (not impossible as I said, but certainly difficult considering the current capabilities of ARM chips), they'll always run into the roadblock of getting devs onboard whether it's a full version of Windows or not.

And having used these tiny tablets alongside a Surface Pro 4, I don't think the issue was with the display quality, to me the issue seemed to be with the interface on a display that size. Full Windows 10, at this point, really doesn't work on a sub-10-inch touchscreen. The Surface is about as small as I'd want to go.
[doublepost=1491582591][/doublepost]
Android is the most popular OS in the world for accessing the internet. I think the "post PC era" is happening, it's just happening with smartphones instead of tablets. So yeah, the guy arguing that iPads are the future of computers is probably missing the point (they're a supplementary device through and through), but to say that the nature of personal computers isn't changing drastically is also missing the point.

If all there is, is accessing the Internet,
As implied the iPad wins hands down.

 

[0lf]

test

 

[Booch21]

Look, on the "surface", there isn't much difference in the numbers.

I find that my iPad Pro and I do just fine functioning in the world of what I could use a Surface for. I'm in the Apple ecosystem because I choose to be and it works well for me. I've never been limited on working on documents, spreadsheets, anything. Most of the stuff that I get in PowerPoint or Word, I'm converting over to Pages and Keynote as it is, simply because they run better on the iPad as opposed to using Microsoft products on the iPad. I see that on my iMac as well. I couldn't stand the constant and long lasting hard drive chatter whenever I started up Word or Excel. When I fire those up on the iMac, I hear that incessant drive chatter again, force them closed and go back to Pages and the smooth opening. But I digress...

For me, the iPad is an extension of what I need to do. If I need the full blown computing power, I go use the iMac. In the interim, I function just fine on the iPad. I'm sure the Surface works well for some, but as was stated so eloquently above, the iPad is a tablet that can function as a laptop, if needed. The Surface is a laptop that can function as a tablet if needed. Get what works for you.