Microsoft Takes on Apple's Entry-Level iPad With 10-inch 'Surface Go' Starting at $399

[sracer]

Surface RT Go

In many respects, the Surface RT (aka Zune tablet) was better then than the Surface Go will be today. The Surface RT came with a full perpetual license for MS Office. The RT had a dedicated HDMI port for connecting to a 2nd display. The Go doesn't. And at the time that the RT was released, there was "hope" that Modern UI/Metro apps would take off and make it a truly viable tablet. But today, we know that Modern UI has NOT taken off and there's still a shortage of a quantity of quality touch-optimized apps. That makes the Go more of a dead-end (from a tablet perspective) than the RT.

Every time I talk about the RT, I get nostalgic for it, and think about getting another one.

 

[mi7chy]

i'm not talking about issues from updating. i'm talking about simple scenarios that Microsoft could have avoided. Example: I've had windows update restart my computer while I was playing a round of Overwatch. It's not hard to check to see if a user is currently using the system to avoid any sort of reboots.

I've seen Twitch streamers streaming to 500 viewers and then encounter a Windows Update that rebooted their computer in the middle of a live stream.

macOS handles it fine. yes it constantly pops up a notification asking you to update, but I've never had macOS restart in the middle of something.

Windows 10 handles updates fine too if you set the 'change active time' option. I have a pending 'restart required' from update and it hasn't restarted while I'm working on it or even idle because I set the 'active time' from 6am to 11pm so it can restart anytime >11pm and <6am.

 

[DynaFXD]

It is more like a $20 piece of hardware but you are right.

The reason is probably due to licensing. For every radio chip that is installed Apple/MSoft/whomever needs to cut Intel/Broadcom/Qualcomm/whomever a royalty check. Even if it is $20 (not sure it is that low and there are other issues like the software license to to drive those things) then you are still talking some percent of the total price, it's not lost in rounding errors. Logical solution is make separate SKUs for those who want and those who don't. No need to saddle those who don't with any subsidizing of those who do.

 

[JoeyEatWorld]

I see Microsoft finally adds a USB-C port, but the cheap model gets it first.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Windows 10 handles updates fine too if you set the 'change active time' option. I have a pending 'restart required' from update and it hasn't restarted while I'm working on it or even idle because I set the 'active time' from 6am to 11pm so it can restart anytime >11pm and <6am.

windows 10 will force an update on you if you decline a certain amount which is ridiculous (though, I think recently, they stopped doing that, finally).
i've had my settings changed and still had windows restart while I was working. just copy macOS's way of updating and everything will be fine.

and also: before going to bed, I'd let Windows update. then I'd wake up to booting my PC only to see windows finalizing the updates. why not just get everything done during that 8 hour window when i'm asleep? i've never had this issue with macOS

lastly: Windows will bug you everyday if you stop updating your Windows for longer than 35 days. only way to stop this is to prevent the update services from running.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Agreed, I would certainly try it first. However, I think the CPU is plenty for kind of things this is going to be used for, which is primarily running a web browser, looking at photos, MS office, etc.

Except that no one will think of it like that. They will try to do actual work on it and it will be slooooooooow. Then they will blame the computer.

 

[Radon87000]

windows 10 will force an update on you if you decline a certain amount which is ridiculous (though, I think recently, they stopped doing that, finally).
i've had my settings changed and still had windows restart while I was working. just copy macOS's way of updating and everything will be fine.

and also: before going to bed, I'd let Windows update. then I'd wake up to booting my PC only to see windows finalizing the updates. why not just get everything done during that 8 hour window when i'm asleep? i've never had this issue with macOS

If you opt for the defer updates option in settings you can postpone the update for months.

 

[farewelwilliams]

If you opt for the defer updates option in settings you can postpone the update for months.

not months. for 35 days i believe.
you can defer "features" for 1 year i think.

 

[tkatz]

i'm not talking about issues from updating. i'm talking about simple scenarios that Microsoft could have avoided. Example: I've had windows update restart my computer while I was playing a round of Overwatch. It's not hard to check to see if a user is currently using the system to avoid any sort of reboots.

I've seen Twitch streamers streaming to 500 viewers and then encounter a Windows Update that rebooted their computer in the middle of a live stream.

macOS handles it fine. yes it constantly pops up a notification asking you to update, but I've never had macOS restart in the middle of something.

Ok, I'll admit that has never happened to me, but I've heard of it happening to others.

I believe that's what the active hours setting is for in the update settings. Granted, it only allows you to configure an 18 hour window and you're correct, it should be easy to see if your using the system and not reboot. In-fact, that's what it claims to do during the active hours range (why can't it do that all the time?).

 

[317342]

iSurface.

 

[DynaFXD]

In many respects, the Surface RT (aka Zune tablet) was better then than the Surface Go will be today. The Surface RT came with a full perpetual license for MS Office. The RT had a dedicated HDMI port for connecting to a 2nd display. The Go doesn't. And at the time that the RT was released, there was "hope" that Modern UI/Metro apps would take off and make it a truly viable tablet. But today, we know that Modern UI has NOT taken off and there's still a shortage of a quantity of quality touch-optimized apps. That makes the Go more of a dead-end (from a tablet perspective) than the RT.

Every time I talk about the RT, I get nostalgic for it, and think about getting another one.

Boy, all you folks telling us just how it's going to go with this new hardware and what its performance will be like. You guys have some reviews you can point the rest of us to? The iPads and iPhones operate better than their specs suggest because it is such a tightly integrated software/hardware system. Msft will have this advantage too and there is no reason to believe that they won't have these new tablets running just where they want them for their expected usage model(s). If you want video out is has USB-C, so you're covered. I don't know how "hope" made the RT a better product that the reality of what you'll get today. Although I get along fine on my iPads with touch, if I really want to do anything substantial I have my Pencil going and a keyboard attached. Yeah, the 12.9 has a nice onscreen KB, but I can't stand typing anything on it other that a quick message or email.

It will be interesting to see what the reviews are like once the blackouts are lifted. My guess it that will be just like an Surface version of a Win10 machine as the iPad is to a MacOS machine: A light duty tool to cover you between when a desktop is a must and a phone just isn't optimal. Which is fine.

 

[spinedoc77]

It takes < 2 minutes for a Windows S to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, and it's basically a couple of clicks away, on a Windows Surface Laptop. I suspect the process will be very similar on the Surface Go, to upgrade to Windows 10 Home.

Yes, but the process is not reversible. You will have consumers out there who have no idea why they would need to switch and don't understand the possible ramifications. What happens when someone switches over and the PC runs very slowly, yet they don't understand it's because they switched to full windows and the baggage that entails. Now maybe they actually figure it out, good luck having them reinstall the entire OS to get S mode back.

A large part of the issue, as was with RT, is the confusion introduced with multiple OS'. Consumers just want their PC's to run, the famous words we always hear about ipads. Of course what not everyone understands are the financial motivations for Microsoft. What financial incentive do legacy programs bring windows besides required their OS? Conversely what financial incentive does Microsoft have to have devs sell apps on the app store and give MS a piece of the action? This is a double edged sword and will come back to haunt MS as consumers will be hard pressed to spend the same kind of money traditional legacy programs have asked for in the past.

 

[317342]

SCHOOL. As in the education market. Schools wants the extra control over apps on the devices is the main target. A competitive ipad price point is just a side benefit.

If this is truly for the K-12 education market, they must have missed the Chromebook $129.00 price point that budget-conscious school districts can't seem to get enough of.

 

[entropys]

Who is this for?

IT departments filled with MS lovers, who now have a device they can demand users use instead of iPads.

 

[shadowbird423]

What? Apples MacBook line, MacBook Pro line, and iMac line all use kaby lake processors...

My bad, I thought this chip was a newer Kaby Lake revision than it is. It'll be a bit of work, but someone could do it.

No turbo boost/quad core means I am completely uninterested. The Surface 3 had all of this!

 

[mi7chy]

If this is truly for the K-12 education market, they must have missed the Chromebook $129.00 price point that budget-conscious school districts can't seem to get enough of.

$129 is for the lowest end Chromebook without touch or pen input. Probably the closest comparison is the Acer ChromeOS tablet for $329 but the build quality isn't as good. ChromeOS is closer to a desktop OS than the restrictive iOS but the ability to multi-boot Windows, Linux and potentially MacOS and CloudReady ChromeOS on the Surface Go is king.

People have hackintoshed other Surface(s).

 

[convergent]

windows 10 will force an update on you if you decline a certain amount which is ridiculous (though, I think recently, they stopped doing that, finally).
i've had my settings changed and still had windows restart while I was working. just copy macOS's way of updating and everything will be fine.

and also: before going to bed, I'd let Windows update. then I'd wake up to booting my PC only to see windows finalizing the updates. why not just get everything done during that 8 hour window when i'm asleep? i've never had this issue with macOS

lastly: Windows will bug you everyday if you stop updating your Windows for longer than 35 days. only way to stop this is to prevent the update services from running.

I've had a Surface Pro for a year and had zero of the problems you described with updates. Not sure what you are doing...seems like you are trying to block it from doing updates. In my experience Apple devices annoy you continually if you don't do updates, so not seeing your point on that either. Personally, I'm happy that Windows updates silently and there isn't a time I'd see myself blocking them.

 

[DNichter]

Where are you seeing the poor performance? It looks speedy in the video. I’m sure everyone here would like to know too.

Let’s be honest, you’re just trolling cause “Another cheap windows laptop” has less than half the resolution without pen support.

It’s a pentium chip that benchmarks around an A8/A9 or a five year old i3. Basically a bit slower than the 2015 MacBook that was terribly slow. You feel like that’s good performance for a windows machine? If so, by all means, have at it.

 

[mi7chy]

It’s a pentium chip that benchmarks around an A8/A9 or a five year old i3. Basically a bit slower than the 2015 MacBook that was terribly slow. You feel like that’s good performance for a windows machine? If so, by all means, have at it.

I know you don't have a technical background but real world performance don't revolve around synthetic benchmarks. Synthetic benchmarks might show the A whatever as a supercomputer but facts are it lacks essential realworld features like VP9 hardware decoding for YouTube, only runs blown up iPod apps instead of full fledged Microsoft Office, has millions of crapplets but not one proper SSH client that can actively run in the background, etc. that the little baby Kaby Lake in the Surface Go can do.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I don't see the appeal. Poor performance, no apps......

Runs any windows application.
[doublepost=1531261171][/doublepost]

It's nice to hear that there are people out that who don't experience issues with Windows updates. Sadly, I'm not one of them. Windows 10 updates for me, have been, and continue to be, horrendous. It's not just one device, it is all of them.

One issue that most likely won't be discussed with this Surface Go is storage space. The entry level model is 64GB of storage. Once Windows boots up and is configured for the first time, there'll be less than 50GB available. (probably less if there is a recovery partition involved) Every update nibbles away at that free space, and every quarter or half, a major update will take a chunk out

Micro SD card support.

 

[Electrolytic]

Anytime I see low specs and Windows I get scared...

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm sure that S stands from Sucks
Windows S = Windows Sucks

I'm glad you added the second line. Without it how could we have understood your wisdom and insitfullnes.

 

[farewelwilliams]

I've had a Surface Pro for a year and had zero of the problems you described with updates. Not sure what you are doing...seems like you are trying to block it from doing updates. In my experience Apple devices annoy you continually if you don't do updates, so not seeing your point on that either. Personally, I'm happy that Windows updates silently and there isn't a time I'd see myself blocking them.

three of them in here:
3m46s
4m23s
8m27s

several in here

and here

article:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/may/04/windows-10-updates-ruining-pro-gaming-streams

interrupts live TV
https://betanews.com/2016/04/27/windows-10-interrupts-live-tv-broadcast/


it's great that you don't experience the problem, but just because you don't experience it doesn't mean it's a great experience for everyone.

regarding macOS' annoyance of nagging you to update, it's as simple as literally going into preferences -> app store -> uncheck automatically check for updates. windows, you have to go to services.msc (how is the average user supposed to know that this exists?), find Windows Update in that giant list, right click properties, and select disable from that dropdown box.

i would gladly have macOS' method of updates over Windows 10's method of updating anyday.

 

[thatguitarguy]

This is amazing. It will definitely cut into iPad Pro sales. I see this as more competing with the iPad Pro for businesses and productive individuals than a competitor for the entry level iPad. Those who want a personal entertainment device go iPad.

I'm going to make a statement that some will likely disagree with but I'm going to just say it:

Apple products do NOT belong in a business environment. I don't care if you are a small business or a corporation. Other than maybe the iPhone because it works so well with Exchange where as Android doesn't play as nice with Exchange. iPads do not belong in a business environment. They can't run desktop class apps like a Surface tablet can, and they don't have a cursor/trackpad/pointing device. The keyboards SUCK compared to Type Covers and the pencil is underwhelming compared to Surface Pen. Macs also don't belong in a business environment either unless you are using Boot Camp or Virtualization ONLY. Why use an iPad when you can get a W10 tablet that runs full desktop class apps and is so much nicer to use with a server or actually printing to a network printer, or the ability to have it managed with Server.

For a personal recreational device the iPad is fine. I own two iPad Pros, so I obviously like them. And for a personal productivity/entertainment/general use Macs are fine. And I have two retina MacBook Pros, again I like them a lot.

But a Surface can be joined to a domain, can roll out desktop class apps, work with Windows Server/Active Directory. You can run a FULL copy of Office, not just the iOS or Android Office apps. Even the Mac version of Office is weak compared to the Office experience you get with Windows 10 be it Office 2016 or the 365 version, which I absolutely love and use daily.

All this talk about Windows 10 is a bad customer experience. You. Are. Wrong! I like to think that those who say that haven't tried a recent version of it. 1803/RS4 is solid as a rock. Those who cling to Windows 7 really annoy me. Same with those who cling to Snow Leopard or Mavericks or older versions of iOS. Move on people. The grass is definitely greener on the newer side. Always be on the latest operating system, and if you can't update buy a new device. There is no benefit to staying on older software. Any possible reason to do so can be shut down with lots of explanation and facts and real data. Just don't.

Now, if you just want a personal device for entertainment and light productivity that's fine but:

The iPad is NOT a PC replacement device for anyone who is serious about productivity. It just can't be without a more in depth file system, desktop class apps, and a way better operating system. If you take "getting things done" seriously and especially if you are a business, you just can't do things with the iPad that you can with a real desktop-class OS. Or if you can, it's painfully hard to do so. iOS 12 is still not good enough to replace either macOS or Windows. They need to make a Phone OS, Tablet OS, and Computer OS. Don't just put a phone OS with a couple of tweaks on a tablet and call it a PC replacement. That's why Android tablets are dead. Starting with Android P, no more tablet support. Android tablets were a blown up smartphone. iPad DOES have some iPad-only features, but they are not able to compete with the Surface line.

Apple has a long road ahead if they want to be taken seriously in the minds of those of us who want mobility but not at the cost of giving us a half-baked experience and not being able to do laptop-like things with our tablets. Surface FTW!

I'm a big believer in the new Microsoft, the Satya-driven Microsoft. They are going in the right places. Focusing on software and services, while offering their own mobile hardware that they work hard with the Windows and Office teams to make running Microsoft software and services work better on a Surface than almost any other PC OEM manufacturer. Office 365 is a gem, no one should be using G Suite anymore. Azure is absolutely gamechanging, and actually their entire cloud division is making leaps and bounds over Google Cloud Platform and Amazon Web Services. I'm happy for Microsoft.

I'm way more excited for what Microsoft can do in the next 5-10 years than I am for Apple OR Google, although Google also is way ahead of Apple at this point. I think that Microsoft and Google will be THE names in tech going forward. If Apple doesn't change it's direction, they will get left behind. And I badly want Apple to succeed. But I call it like it is.

I will be preordering the 8GB RAM/128GB SSD model tonight along with a type cover. I'm very excited to say the least. I personally think battery life and performance will be fantastic. If you look, the Pentium Gold is basically an energy efficient Core i3, and that's plenty good for a tablet/small PC.

 

[DNichter]

I know you don't have a technical background but real world performance don't revolve around synthetic benchmarks. Synthetic benchmarks might show the A whatever as a supercomputer but facts are it lacks essential realworld features like VP9 hardware decoding for YouTube, only runs blown up iPod apps instead of full fledged Microsoft Office, has millions of crapplets but not one proper SSH client that can actively run in the background, etc. that the little baby Kaby Lake in the Surface Go can do.

You mention it all the time, but not everyone needs an ssh client that runs in the background. iPad works great for my needs. I guess if you feel that type of performance is atequate for what you need, then it’s a great machine for you. I just don’t think it’s going to run very well. We’ll see.
[doublepost=1531263870][/doublepost]

Runs any windows application.
[doublepost=1531261171][/doublepost]


Micro SD card support.

I don’t anticipate all those legacy apps to perform to very well. If you feel confident about it, go for it. I’ve used another surface with higher specs and even that wasn’t a great experience.