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Ming-Chi Kuo Predicts iPhone 8 Will Omit Touch ID Entirely, Come in Limited Color Options

You cannot just take part of his sentence out of context. Yes he's stating "OLED model won't support fingerprint recognition", but then the rest of the same sentence (all 4 reasons 1/2i/2ii/2iii) is dealing with under-the-scrreen TouchID challenges. He Is CLEARLY referring to under-the-screen TouchID in his entire analysis.

Even though Kuo could have phrased this more clearly, it is still irresponsible for jump to far-reaching conclusions, like "iPhone8 will omit TouchID entirely". This is NOT the claim Kuo makes, or at the very beast it's ambiguous and needs further clarification.


WildCowboy said:
"We predict the OLED model won't support fingerprint recognition"

Hard to interpret that any other way.

Now, on occasion he hasn't been entirely clear with his language, so it's *possible* that could be the case here, but as written he's saying no fingerprint recognition at all.
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Grey Area said:
To be fair, he wrote: "We predict the OLED model won't support fingerprint recognition, reasons being: (...)"
(emphasis mine)

So the bold part does support the headline. Now, the reasons being listed all refer to why TouchID under the screen would not work, so maybe he just phrased this badly and does not rule out TouchID elsewhere. Nevertheless, that is what he wrote.
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Weaselboy said:
That is not Ben Loveboy making that assessment. Look at the article here and you can see he is just quoting someone from another article here.

The article is very odd. He picks seven out of 91 MacRumors articles and rates them on accuracy to arrive at the 44%. I just don't see how using seven out of 91 articles and not explaining how the seven were selected could be considered anything close to accurate.

There is a 2015 article here with a list of Ming-Chi Kuo's predictions and if you look at the list he has a pretty good track record.
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My apologies for the misunderstanding, though I think the point could have been made without insulting the author of that piece. I suspect the author of the source article was not assigning the score based on number of articles with predictions but perhaps counting the number of predictions in those articles? At any rate, I did not find that article odd. I always figured that Kuo had an intuitive understanding of Apple based on past behavior, taken with the information he receives from his supply chain connections, would be what makes him reliable. However, like all things, reliability is subjective. As someone on 9to5Mac, there is a difference between "baseball good," "golf good" and "basket ball good." This is likely more like being "baseball good" where a 44% average would be stellar.
 
This is completely ridiculous. There is no way Apple will straight up remove TouchID! They’d be seen as removing security features - something Apple are immensely proud of. Also, the removal of TouchID would make Apple Pay completely impossible seeing as there’d be no way to authorise payments quickly and easily. Ask for a passcode every time you want to pay? Apple would be laughed out of the market.

If TouchID gets removed, they’d have to have a pretty solid secondary plan for security.
 
If this happens I may actually consider buying an iPhone 7, as this whole iPhone 8/10 year anniversary commotion broke my normal 2 year/non-S design change cycle.
 
WatchFromAfar said:
I disagree entirely with that statement. The 7s/7s+ will be based on four year old production methods at this point using many of the the same parts, maybe even chassis, of the 6-7 series iPhones. Economies of scale and familiarity of producing these iPhones will bring production costs down over time. These savings will not be passed on to the consumer thus resulting in higher profit margins for the "cheaper" iPhones.

By contrast everything about producing an iPhone 8 will be new (internal, parts, chassis, screen, 3D sensors etc). Apple will have to tool-up factories to accommodate these first run iPhone 8's as part of an expensive investment in future iPhones. Of course Apple aren't going to loose money, hence the rumours about a $1000+ iPhone, but on these initial batch of iPhones the profit margin may be lower than you think despite the price tag.
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Perhaps, but it was the rumored $1000+ price tag that I was assuming would lead to the higher profit margins. You're correct about all of the above and after I posted that, I started questioning what I had said. Still, depending on the set price point, it could be possible that it would have a higher profit margin. But, at the same time, it could also be true that a) they don't expect the higher margins anytime soon until fabrication reaches scale, and b) that they are ok with that since they'll likely have supply chain constraints as the phone goes on sale. They won't want too many people clamoring for it until all of these things work themselves out.

Still, I stand by my original point, from a long term perspective. If you look long term, they would expect higher profit margins as fabrication reaches scale, and they'll want fewer people to go to the 7s. That's not likely to happen if they dump the Touch ID. Unless they plan to keep this phone a niche product.
 
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If Touch ID is going to be missing because of the current OLED limitations, then the Touch ID will be on the back or on the power button. Anyone thinking that Apple is going to give up their Apple Pay after the HUGE investment they've made on it is just not thinking clearly.
 
MrNomNoms said:
Good question. The bigger question is this, what is the guys reputation? why don't Macrumors actually mention what the persons reputation is like by comparing what they've said vs. what eventually happened? regarding the issue itself, I doubt they'll remove it given it is an iconic feature that they're rolling out to all Apple devices and is also the cornerstone of Apple Pay.
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Ming-Chi is a very reputable analyst. What he predicts is usually very accurate. But he never said anything about ditching Touch ID. He just explained the problems involved with embedding it under glass. No way Apple is getting rid of it. It's one of the best and most secure features of an iPhone. And it works flawlessly with Apple Pay. Its not going anywhere.
 
Okay, limited colors? Boutique image? I hate to sound like a doofus (no I don't) but for some really stupid reason I cannot pinpoint, if there's not a color I like-- I'm not going to even consider buying it. If work issues me one, fine, whatever, I'll use it for work and buy a skin for it or something, but it would be a cold day in hell before I let go of my personal phone-- a gold SE. Color choices besides black and silver make me happy. I need a warmer color option. If by limited they mean "Not in screaming berry blue" or any other non-standard Apple colors, yeah, okay, that's fine. I don't give a crap about boutique image.

If there's no touch unlock, then I'm definitely not going to even consider it lol.

I have a 7 plus for work and it's getting on my nerves.
 
MrNomNoms said:
Good question. The bigger question is this, what is the guys reputation? why don't Macrumors actually mention what the persons reputation is like by comparing what they've said vs. what eventually happened? regarding the issue itself, I doubt they'll remove it given it is an iconic feature that they're rolling out to all Apple devices and is also the cornerstone of Apple Pay.
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9to5Mac has a list.
 
freediverx said:
"Ming-Chi Kuo Predicts iPhone 8 Will Omit Touch ID Entirely"

That's a click-bait headline. At no time did Ming-Chi Kuo state that. He only said TouchID would not be embedded in the screen.
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Yeah having it hidden on the back on the phone is just so more natural to use.......NOT.

This race to a no bezel screen is a phone repairers wet dream, the screen is so much more likely to break if the phone is ever dropped, and you can even put a decent cover on it to try and protect it.

Looks like a few more years with the SE until Apple etc get over this anorexia for phones gig.
 
ugahairydawgs said:
I'd lay money on there being no iPhone 8 before I would bet on it not having Touch ID. It's the entire authentication method for Apple Pay. The chances of it just not being there in any of their phone, but especially the flagship device, is negative infinity.
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I think there will be some kind of biometrics, but it will probably be the 3D/infrared sensing as mentioned in the article. Could be wrong of course, and I hope I am because I don't feel like hovering over my phone while on my desk every time I want to unlock it.
 
era86 said:
I would be actually happy if this crappy Touch ID goes away. Doesn’t work 70% of the time anyway if your fingers are not perfectly dry.
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Touch ID works so well it's almost flawless. And the second gen version is almost instant. Far superior to typing a password. Touch ID is one of the best features of the iPhone. But yes, wet fingers don't work. But c'mon now, how many times do u need to unlock ur phone when ur hands are dripping wet? 1 out of every 150 touches? Not an issue for me at all. And one that might not even exist in the next gen.
 
JamesDo said:
They won't dump Touch ID, he only said it won't be integrated in the screen. This is Kuo, he's right 99% of the time.
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THAT of course does not preclude it from being a stupid idea.
The touch sensor on the back is the same level of bat **** crazy as removing the Maglock power adaptor and using USB-C.
 
DotCom2 said:
That article also says this:

"The feature is still being tested and may not appear with the new device."
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And it also says "Apple has faced challenges integrating the Touch ID fingerprint scanner into this new screen, people familiar with Apple’s work have said. Apple is also testing additional gestures, such as swiping across the center of the screen to launch actions, to replace the home button."

They're scrambling (or scrambled because this is likely already done) because they can't get Touch ID working. It's start to look increasingly likely that Touch ID is gone for iPhone 8.
 
jfrancis04 said:
Welp...looks like they're right.

https://twitter.com/markgurman/status/881957492095426560

Officially a no-buy for me without Touch ID.
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I don't buy it, not on iPhone 8 at least. Gurman's source says "The feature is still being tested and may not appear with the new device". iPhone 8 is already in manufacturing, it's way to late for Apple to be "testing" core features for this generation.

We may see face recognition authentication in iPhone 8S or iPhone9, but iPhone 8 will have fingerprint sensor of some sort.
 
LXC101 said:
I'm not ready for the disappointment of no under-screen touch ID.
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Well...
It seems it's not on the back, and if they are using an on-screen home button like Android, well...

To be honest, I think it was a bad move to not simply use a fingerprint scanner on the back like LG phones and the Nexus line. Those work perfect, every time, and it's intuitive (your finger just hits it - you don't need to look where to press) - that used to be the type of claim Apple was proud to make. I was worried that they'd actually release a phone with an under-screen fingerprint scanner - and besides having to look for something you can't find by feel any more, that the performance would be somewhere between intermittent and terrible, like it used to be on my old Galaxy S5 fingerprint scanner.
This is probably a blessing in disguise... although my vote would still be towards putting it on the back, in a ring you can feel for. Heck - make THAT function as a home button too, a physical button like the LG G6.
 
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