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MLB Hotstove 08

Andy Pettitte has decided to return to the Yankees.
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Andy Pettitte has decided to put off retirement and pitch for the New York Yankees in 2008.

Pettitte's agent, Randy Hendricks, said Monday that the 35-year-old left-hander had started telling teammates on Sunday. Hendricks then informed Yankees general manager Brian Cashman of the news.

The Houston Chronicle first reported that Pettitte would return in 2008.
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So if the Yankees wind up with Santana, does the balance of power change appreciably?

I'm rather hoping the Twins say no to both the Yankees and the Red Sox, and that the Yankees keep Hughes, Stewart, and Chamberlain, and that they continue to develop as they have to date.
 
fotografica said:
Not at all..The Yankees would have Santana and four other guys as their rotation...Not gonna get it done...
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Yep, that's kinda why I'd prefer the Yankees just keep their three young arms. They'll be better off, most likely, in the long run.
 
MacNut said:
Not gonna happen, they might keep him for now but he will be gone by the all star break.
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They could change their minds and end up giving him an extension. They can definitely afford it, but their owner is just cheap.

Santana and Liriano gives them a great 1-2 punch.
 
quagmire said:
While the Yankees do need good pitchers, I am not sure if they can afford giving up the rocket of an arm Melky provides in center field. Abreu's and Damon's arm are WEAK and Matsui's is decent.
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And Abreu is crazy afraid of walls. Melky has a damn good glove, too.

Melky will seriously be missed if they trade him. I'm all for keeping all 3 young pitchers and trying to buy Santana when he becomes a free agent.
 
zioxide said:
I hope the Twins end up keeping him.
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Wouldn't bother me a bit...

Santana has a no trade clause in his current contract. He has to waive that before he can be traded by the Twinkies. Reportedly he will only waive it if he signs a new deal with his new team first, and he's asking $150 million over 6 years, or $25 million a year. The only player in all of baseball making more is A-Rod. Santana wants $25 million to play once a week and start what, 35 games a year?

Bucholz, Lester and Papilbon together aren't making $1 million a year combined.

Then, in two years, you have Beckett at the end of his contract, and if his numbers are better than Santana's, and IMO they will be, what will he ask for? And he'll still be younger than Santana.

Then you have the little detail that Santana was 15-13 last year, with an ERA around 4.00, and served up 33 dingers in a ballpark that doesn't have a green wall 310' away breathing down a lefty pitcher's neck.

And for this, you're willing to trade a prospect who can hit for average, has shown a little power, with speed and a great glove and a good arm. The guy came up into the middle of a pennant race, with no Major League experience, hit .353 down the stretch and .360 in the post season, stole 9 bases in 9 tries only reaching base 49 times. Speed is the one thing your team lacks and this kid has speed to spare. You can work on your hitting, you can work on your defense, and you can work on your pitch selection, but the two things that God gave an outfielder that he can't learn are his legs and his arm. Oh, yeah, and he's equally at home in all 3 outfield positions.
 
ugh

Reports say that the Sox have exchanged medical records for Jon Lester with the Twins.
 
The Yankees have just about given up on Santana and are setting their eyes on Haren.
That got those teams' wheels turning again -- and did so, coincidentally, at the same time the Yankees were almost simultaneously beginning to talk themselves out of this trade.

Officials from other clubs said several of the Yankees' baseball personnel at the meetings had begun openly questioning whether they even wanted to make this trade if the Twins said yes.

"The more this goes on," said one AL executive, "the less they want to do it."
The Twins haven't budged since Friday. They wanted Kennedy then, and they still did on Monday.

Meanwhile, officials from other clubs said some Yankees baseball personnel at the meetings have continued to agonize over the inclusion of Hughes in their offer, out of fear Hughes could come back to haunt them for years. So clearly, the decision to include Hughes in the first place was far from unanimous.

Cashman admitted there's a fear that players he might trade could win Cy Young Awards for another team.
"I'm definitely fully invested in a lot of the young talent. You get attached to it," Cashman said, according to the AP.

And if the Yankees had any inclination whatsoever to waver on their stand a few days ago, the news Monday that Andy Pettitte had decided to return undoubtedly helped ease those concerns.
With Pettitte back, the Yankees can mount a respectable rotation, with or without Santana -- around Pettitte, Chien-Ming Wang, Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy and Mike Mussina. They also are expected to renew their efforts to trade for Oakland's Dan Haren.
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The Yankees are extremely overvaluing Kennedy. I don't know how they would let someone like him hold up a trade for the best pitcher in MLB.
 
zioxide said:
The Yankees are extremely overvaluing Kennedy. I don't know how they would let someone like him hold up a trade for the best pitcher in MLB.
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I don't think the Yankees want to make this deal at all, why risk all the young talent. It is obvious that they don't want to trade Hughes. Maybe the Steinbrenner era is finally over where making big trades for 2 years of service is the norm. Don't forget that if the Red Sox sign Santana they still have to pay him $25 mil a year. I'd rather the Yankees spend all that elsewhere.
 
zioxide said:
The Yankees are extremely overvaluing Kennedy. I don't know how they would let someone like him hold up a trade for the best pitcher in MLB.
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Hughes is also holding up the trade though he is on the offer card. I as well hope they don't trade for Santana because they need a good arm in center......
 
I still think the Yankees are best off keeping Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy. Three good, young, ascending pitchers versus one great pitcher who is on the way down already? And who will tie up a ton of payroll? If the Twins had stuck with Hughes and Cabrera and a third (mid-level) prospect, it would be bad enough.

As for the A's wanting Hughes, Cabrera, and Kennedy--please, no. If I'm Cashman, I just laugh as I hang up the phone....
 
zioxide said:
The Yankees are extremely overvaluing Kennedy. I don't know how they would let someone like him hold up a trade for the best pitcher in MLB.
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Don't underestimate Kennedy. I think the Yankees offer is still better then what the Red Sox are offering. If they pull this off the Twins are the ones getting screwed.
 
Naimfan said:
There. Fixed it for you! ;)
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My the tables might be turning, the Yankees are not willing to give up talent and the Red Sox are gonna blow it all away.:p I hope the Red Sox don't bitch and moan anymore about how much the Yankees throw their money around.

-----------------------------------------------------------
In other news,
Report: Mitchell findings to get pre-holiday release
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3140853

Wouldn't it be sweet if after the Red Sox sign Santana they find out he's on "the list".:p
 
Naimfan said:
There. Fixed it for you! ;)
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They might be overvaluing him a bit but not "extremely", considering there's nobody to replace Ellsbury. The Yankees would be bringing in a pitcher to replace Hughes and Kennedy probably isn't major league ready.

If the Twins took the Ellsbury deal, they would be the ones who would be overvaluing Ellsbury.
 
zioxide said:
Not really, considering there's nobody to replace Ellsbury. And the Red Sox already have their ace pitcher. The Yankees would be bringing in a pitcher to replace Hughes and Kennedy probably isn't major league ready.
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Still, for want of an unproven center fielder the Sox would let the best pitcher in the game go?
 
Naimfan said:
Still, for want of an unproven center fielder the Sox would let the best pitcher in the game go?
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Like I said, I don't think the Twins would be smart to let Santana go for Ellsbury.

And the Red Sox aren't going to give up two of their young guys to get him.
 
zioxide said:
Like I said, I don't think the Twins would be smart to let Santana go for Ellsbury.

And the Red Sox aren't going to give up two of their young guys to get him.
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It does smell fishy that the Twins would take the lesser offer from the Red Sox.
 
Here's a question:

I've not researched it, but it seems that true ace pitchers don't have very long shelf lives these days. Even Santana fell off significantly last year--in terms of ERA, won-loss record, OBP, etc. So while he might be very good for some time, I think it's tough to say he'll be as great as he was in the past.

A quick search turned up this interesting link. So a few pitchers recently (since about 1980) have lasted as true aces: Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Martinez. Aside from that group, Santana might be in that group, along with Beckett, Sabathia, etc. But it's also true that Beckett, Sabathia, etc. might be Dontrelle Willis or Chris Carpenter or . . .

So how long does a true ace last as a true ace?
 
Naimfan said:
So how long does a true ace last as a true ace?
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Virtually all pitchers are going to start to decline by their mid-30s if not sooner, if they have surgical repairs. Even the ones who survive longer will do so with reduced velocity and have to learn to compensate. The ones that live by the fast ball are the first to go, it seems to me -- with a few exceptions of course.
 
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