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Can someone think of a phone that uses a plastic MicroSim tray and see (carefully) if it fits in iPhone 4?

"The power supply in the phone could short circuit the SIM rendering it useless."
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_storage_conditions_can_damage_a_SIM_card

"Be alert to phone-functionality issues. A defective SIM card may cause errors on the device. Some common phone-functionality errors may exhibit the following symptoms or cause the following device issues: poor data functions, cryptic or scrambled picture and text messages (MMS and SMS), a broken voicemail connection, or an inability to save new contacts to the SIM card phonebook."
http://www.ehow.com/how_4481028_determine-cell-phone-sim-card.html
 

I am in the UK and I have made some test as I originally had the death grip issue.

I have a 3 micro-sim that is normally for an iPad and an old o2 sim that I cut to fit the iPhone.

I first tried to isolate the o2 sim from the tray, both sides. The chip is bigger than the micro-sim card so I thought I would need to isolate everywhere it might be in contact with the sim tray.

No luck there, I still had the death grip issue.

Now I tried the 3 micro-sim without any tape whatsoever and I only lost 1 signal bar.

I then compared the position of the two sim cards in the iPhone tray and saw that the 3 micro-sim slightly touched the tray at the bottom (near the Serial no) while at the top end, it was just plastic.

So I tried again with my custom-cut o2 sim but I just isolated the top area (near the IMEI No.) and I let the chip touch the tray at the bottom (Serial No. side).

I can see a difference, the signal never goes lower than 3 bars while before it went down to 1 or no signal.

Maybe the people who cut their sims should try this and see if it has the same effect.

It looks like the issue is coming from the sim-tray, at least in part

UPDATE:

here are pictures of the two sim cards in the sim tray (first one is the 3 micro-sim, second one is the o2 sim)


 
I am in the UK and I have made some test as I originally had the death grip issue.

I have a 3 micro-sim that is normally for an iPad and an old o2 sim that I cut to fit the iPhone.

I first tried to isolate the o2 sim from the tray, both sides. The chip is bigger than the micro-sim card so I thought I would need to isolate everywhere it might be in contact with the sim tray.

No luck there, I still had the death grip issue.

Now I tried the 3 micro-sim without any tape whatsoever and I only lost 1 signal bar.

I then compared the position of the two sim cards in the iPhone tray and saw that the 3 micro-sim slightly touched the tray at the bottom (near the Serial no) while at the top end, it was just plastic.

So I tried again with my custom-cut o2 sim but I just isolated the top area (near the IMEI No.) and I let the chip touch the tray at the bottom (Serial No. side).

I can see a difference, the signal never goes lower than 3 bars while before it went down to 1 or no signal.

Maybe the people who cut their sims should try this and see if it has the same effect.

It looks like the issue is coming from the sim-tray, at least in part

UPDATE:

here are pictures of the two sim cards in the sim tray (first one is the 3 micro-sim, second one is the o2 sim)



very interesting thanks, Arn should update the newsfeed with this info, it could be isolated to those who cut their sims. It seems we (the users!) are getting closer to a fix.
 
Look guys, I don't want to be rude here, but it is most unlikely this has anything to do with a Sim card or tray.

At my house, I vary from no signal on O2 UK to 1 bar sometimes, 2 bars all the way to 5 full bars sometimes.

This signal issue is incredibly easy to explain from my experience and put simply, when you are in a strong signal area, you will hardly suffer it, and when you have a weak signal, you will be able to reproduce it every time.

Now the problem here is that so many people take why the signal meter is telling them as 100% rock solid evidence of how strong the signal is, which is a bad place to start because, for me, having to deal with low O2 signal for over a year, I can assure you that sometimes I get crap quality with 4 bars, and sometimes I get great quality calls with 1 bar.

So, anyway, I just tried this "fix". Had 3 bars and holding the left corner lost all bars. Took sim out, covered the edge touching Sim tray with electrical tape. Put the sim back in and had not moved an inch from previous position. Um, only had one bar now, and yep, holding the left corner lost all signal.

OK, don't want the electrical tape getting loose inside iPhone 4, so I remove it and put sim back in. Reboot each time by the way.

Wow, this time I have 5 full bars!!! Fixed it right?

Of course not, holding the left corner loses all 5 bars again. But you know what ?

I AM NOT SUPRISED OR ANNOYED BY ANY OF THIS!

For the simple reason that, where I am, at home, I already know that O2 signal is ****. It does the same thing on various other phones, including recently the Nexus One, the Nokia N97 mini, and the 3GS

In fact, the only phone I can hold onto a signal with is the Nokia E52, but, when I make an actual call it often drops it anyway, so the meter is probably wrong is all.

So having said all this, how come some people here are getting a fix?

I don't think you are guys, sorry, I think one or some or even all of the following is occurring when you play around with Sim tray and sim.

1. You are reconnecting to a different cell tower, with different signal strength.
2. You happened to reconnect to a tower with less load on it than before.
3. Atmospherics changed in the time you rebooted or changed sim.
4. Your carrier changed something at their end.
5. Your wholly unreliable signal meter reset itself when you swapped sim

Why am I so sure about this? Well, just yesterday I was playing around, and touching the left corner of the phone, in my house, and every single time it lost some bars, sometimes all, sometimes only one. Next, I went and took the dog for a walk, and I held the left corner again just outside my back door.

It dropped but mostly a little less than inside. I walked about 1000 meters from my house, and however I now held the phone, I was unable to make it drop more than one bar.

So, what I know is this, EVERY phone does this, and if anyone other than Steve Jobs said it, people would accept it, in fact if Google CEO said it, people would call him a genius for letting us know!

My iPhone 4 has way better signal strength than did my 3GS, and I am getting a low signal in places I could not get anything before, with both the 3GS and the Nexus One.

If I put this same sim into my Nexus One, and just pick it up, it loses all signal, JUST LIKE THE iPhone 4 DOES!

So, I doubt there will be any recall, or software fix, and I also doubt any of these fixes will turn out to be anymore than well meaning odd occurrences duemtomsignal fluctuation, and a strong desire not to have paid a lot of Monet for something with a supposed flaw.

Bottom line here seems pretty simple, if you use your phone a lot as a PHONE ( a lot of people don't actually) and know you live or work in a low signal area, you should consider carefully if any full featured smartphone is for you (because in my experience the more features in a phone the more chance of something being less than brilliant) or if youmshould research what phones have stellar reception.

Kev
 
This signal issue is incredibly easy to explain, and put simply, when you are in a strong signal area, you will hardly suffer it, and when you have a weak signal, you will be able to reproduce it every time.


Nope, not quite so easy to explain as so many keep trying, as I live across the street - literally - from an AT&T cell site/tower. The actual antenna array sits roughly 20 feet higher than my 3rd floor balcony does, and it's line-of-sight with me about 750 feet away. Full 5 bars (not that it means much really), practically an overload situation in some respects but...

I touch that seam on the lower left hand side, it's done for. Details at the link in my sig, been there for days now, nothing has changed so far.

To be honest, if more folks understood what the signal strength indicator actually represented it would help: it's indicating how well your phone is receiving the control channel data stream off the cell site/tower which provides the instructions on how to associate/stay connected/which channels are available for communications/etc. People focus too much on that signal strength indicator but you can lose calls completely and still be "connected" to the network as long as the phone continues to receive the control channel.

The bars mean nothing with respect to individual calls or data streams, in the long run...

Not everyone has issues, but many of us do, so we're discussing it and sharing what info we have.

We don't have much other choice - it's not like Apple is ever going to come out and admit something is wrong. They'll offer up a firmware update at some point but they won't attach any admission that a problem actually exists.

Funny how that works: the firmware is the admission but people never seem to see it that way, especially in Apple's case. Why is that?
 
For those that are having success, would you mind going here
Coverage Viewer

Here is mine. FWIW, I tried this and did not have success.

I wonder if those that are are in very strong areas
 

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Nope, not quite so easy to explain as so many keep trying, as I live across the street - literally - from an AT&T cell site/tower. The actual antenna array sits roughly 20 feet higher than my 3rd floor balcony does, and it's line-of-sight with me about 750 feet away. Full 5 bars (not that it means much really), practically an overload situation in some respects but...

Hrmm, I know we are on different continents and different bands even, but that is surprising. In 5 days of testing in the UK, when ever I have good signal, I can not get it to go down more that one bar.

Do you agree though that this is unlikely to be sim card related?

Also, as you are so close to the tower, how is your voice and data speed when you don't touch left side compared to when you do?

Kev
 
My "approximate" location up on my 3rd floor balcony, line-of-sight with an AT&T cell site/tower on the AT&T building here in downtown Vegas. I'm blanketed, service coverage isn't an issue, I assure you. :)
 

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Hrmm, I know we are on different continents and different bands even, but that is surprising. In 5 days of testing in the UK, when ever I have good signal, I can not get it to go down more that one bar.

Do you agree though that this is unlikely to be sim card related?

Also, as you are so close to the tower, how is your voice and data speed when you don't touch left side compared to when you do?

Kev

At this point I'm more than happy to say it could be most anything, including (my theory) a bunch of things going wrong at the same time. Not going to turn this into a big post as I seem to keep doing, suffice to say that there's several things going wrong as far as the 3G capabilities of the iPhone 4 are concerned.

It could be hardware, it could be software, but sense both of those are what makes a fully functional phone, then by definition there's something going on with the phone.
 
Hrmm, I know we are on different continents and different bands even, but that is surprising. In 5 days of testing in the UK, when ever I have good signal, I can not get it to go down more that one bar.

Do you agree though that this is unlikely to be sim card related?

Also, as you are so close to the tower, how is your voice and data speed when you don't touch left side compared to when you do?

Kev

It's clear there are a range of issues that people are having.

br0adband is the most extreme, but his expereience is reflected in this video (made by someone else)

http://vimeo.com/12864890

arn
 
very interesting thanks, Arn should update the newsfeed with this info, it could be isolated to those who cut their sims. It seems we (the users!) are getting closer to a fix.

Honestly, and with sadness, I really doubt their is a "fix" for this, well, not until Apple do Rev 2 hardware, with a plastic coating over that part of the antenna.

Kev
 
For those that are having success, would you mind going here:

Here is mine. FWIW, I tried this and did not have success.

I wonder if those that are are in very strong areas

Just as a note: you need to check that 3G box to see the 3G coverage which is what people are having with (at least most everyone that's reporting issues). If you're seeing orange, you're not looking at the 3G coverage... ;)
 
It's clear there are a range of issues that people are having.

br0adband is the most extreme, but his expereience is reflected in this video (made by someone else)

arn

HOLY COW!!! :D

That's about how I'd do a video if I had a decent video camera to work with, very nicely done and it mimics my exact experience perfectly. Thanks for that, arn, I'd been searching for someone with a nice clear irrefutable piece of evidence that is close to or exactly the same as what I'm experiencing...

Many thanks indeed.

Now we're cookin'... :)

Note: the video maker did say he couldn't duplicate the issue a few days later at another location, but so far with my own iPhone 4, no matter where I've been in Vegas - even standing beside that AT&T building a block over - I can still kill it completely with the Dim Mak-fingertip-of-death. :D
 
As a SIM card software developer I can say that there is absolutely no connection with SIM card contacts and level or radio signal.
 
As a SIM card software developer I can say that there is absolutely no connection with SIM card contacts and level or radio signal.

We're not saying there's an issue with the level of signal or the radio, we're saying that if you create - either intentionally or completely by accident - a connection that shouldn't be made, aka a short of some kind, something in that circuit is going to have a problem. It may not affect the SIM card itself, but shunting a signal path off the iPhone through the SIM, or vice versa, or some weird haphazard crap that could potentially be going on in there is a possibility.

That's all... it's all about possibilities, and since we don't actually have anything from Apple to go on (and no, there is a problem, Steve-o, seriously) we're basically giving everything a shot in the hopes that maybe someone discovers something that actually works.
 
It's clear there are a range of issues that people are having.

br0adband is the most extreme, but his expereience is reflected in this video (made by someone else)

http://vimeo.com/12864890

arn

Yes, I saw that video yesterday, and it is clear there is an issue. My thoughts as I watched was along the lines of "well, don't hold it there"

I know that is letting Apple off the hook, or is it?

I just want a great device, which I think the iPhone 4 is, and I am a bit selfish in that I would be on wi-fi if I was home as he appears to be, and if not, well once I knew about the issue, I would simply "hold it different" -:)

That chap does also point out that he is not doing the video to put people off the iPhone, and taken with lots of reviews in the US about how this iPhone is so much better at signal than the old ones, I do wonder if we geeks do make a *little* too much of these issues sometimes?


Kev
 
So these "successes" are more or less a fluke in your opinion?

I went to the Att store last night to complain about my 3 iPhone4 signal issues and the first thing they did was replace all 3 sims telling me they think that's the issue. That was at 5pm last night.. 1 phone was improved but the other 2 the same
 
... I do wonder if we geeks do make a *little* too much of these issues sometimes?


Kev

Sure we do, but the most basic fundamental point of ALL of this is, once again:

The iPhone 4 is a hand-held cellular phone that, for many of us that own it, doesn't work as a cellular phone when we hold it in our hand(s).

It really does not get any simpler than that. The camera works, the Wi-Fi (while having some reported issues is working fine in my situation) seems to work, the video capability is nice, the screen is nice, everything seems to be working ok except the phone functionality which is the primary reason it's called the iPhone.

That's the gist of it. :cool:
 
So these "successes" are more or less a fluke in your opinion?

I can say that "broken" SIM card connection can reboot the card (iPhone won't reboot but it will re-read SIM card). For this period connection will be lost completely. If it will be some kind of I/O problems phone can behave unpredictable - reboot, freeze, just lost a signal. But if there is a signal, that means that everything is ok with a SIM. I mean problems with SIM will disconnect you from the network, you won't have just less numbers of bars of the signal indicator.
 
Sure we do, but the most basic fundamental point of ALL of this is, once again:

The iPhone 4 is a hand-held cellular phone that, for many of us that own it, doesn't work as a cellular phone when we hold it in our hand(s).

It really does not get any simpler than that. The camera works, the Wi-Fi (while having some reported issues is working fine in my situation) seems to work, the video capability is nice, the screen is nice, everything seems to be working ok except the phone functionality which is the primary reason it's called the iPhone.

That's the gist of it. :cool:

You really have hit on a huge point with this, and I must start out saying in selfish bastard mode, "not for me"

I am genuinely curious to know for every say 100 people, how many would the statement "my iPhone's primary function day to day is phone use"

I really only make one call day, so it's no biggie for me, and since I want a top end smartphone, and my Nexus One does exactly what the iPhone 4 does, what can I do?

If I did rely on phone use, I would probably still be on a Nokia candy bar, which have always been phones first, and smart phones later.

Ah well, different strokes for different folks I guess.

Kev
 
iPhone 4 signal issue

As many have posted that removing the SIM and placing it back has fixed this signal issue, i beleive that this is a fix.

i dont know about others, but when ever i have gotten a new phone, ive always taken out the SIM card, and wiped it, and cleaned the lining of the SIM tray where the SIM card sits. And since day one i have not had any signal issues (even in some place where i had weak signal with my 3GS, i have a stronger signal with iPhone 4)

as strange as this maybe, i beleive that this is a fix for some.

Now we all have to understand that not every single unit (every single type of electronic device will be perfect). and that shows perfect with the iPhone 4. Some have no issues while others have some issues. :)
 
I just tried it and noticed that my SIM contacts were touching the tray. I also noticed that the coating on the tray doesn't reach the edge, exposing enough metal to pose a problem. I put a small piece of paper on that edge and put the tray back in...

5 bars where I once only got 2-3. Signal has greatly improved...

But I can still bridge the antennas and cause the signal to drop. It's already apparent but there are multiple problems causing the signal issues.
 
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