My Macbook Pro reached 106 degrees !

[vant]

You do realize that the temperatures he's reporting show obvious signs of thermal dissipation failure right?

105C is not acceptable for a CPU temperature reading. His crashes are obviously related to his heat issues. In fact, I'd estimate his laptop would live less than a month if he keeps forcing these heat related crashes.

Okay, at first I was sympathetic to your situation but you're really blowing this out of proportion.

First off. The temperature reading is the DIODE temperature, not the entire computer.

Secondly, it won't catch on fire. You know what will make laptops catch on fire? That's the battery. The battery has explosive material when things go wrong. That's what makes laptops catch on fire, not a CPU.

Thirdly, even with a bad connection, a 100+ deg C diode temperature CPU won't suddenly burst into flames. The heatsink will still draw heat away. You'll break the CPU first before burning down your house.

Lastly, the real failsafe is not in the CPU diode, it's in the motherboard/logic board SMC. That has a failsafe of 105 deg C, +/- 5 deg C. The actual CPU failsafe temperature is actually in the upper 130+ deg C ranges but at that point the CPU would've already died. Its just there to prevent the CPU to literally burn out but it doesn't mean it won't. The Tj temperature is the MAXIMUM SAFE OPERATING TEMPERATURE of 105 deg C according to Intel.

And if I was in your position, I rather do the work myself because time = money and you're being made to jump through hoops. It's time to stop jumping through them and actually have action.

 

[NStocks]

You do realize that the temperatures he's reporting show obvious signs of thermal dissipation failure right?

105C is not acceptable for a CPU temperature reading. His crashes are obviously related to his heat issues. In fact, I'd estimate his laptop would live less than a month if he keeps forcing these heat related crashes.

I agree. Force quitting and force restarting is not good for any computer, let alone doing it several time a day. According to Group 8, the crashes were not caused by the heat, but they expect me to know why they are occurring. I said that the crashes are random but they mainly happen when I'm rendering or photo merging etc.

I wish the technical guys at group 8 realise that for me 105 C is too hot, to them it may not seem it because they are not the person using it for 10 hours per day... What's more is if Group 8 only repair the heat issues, I fear that more problems would occur... This isn't basing my theory on my feelings, but rather how the performance of the computer has declined since these heat related issues started../ My Mac is no longer reliable.

 

[ayeying]

I never said don't get it fixed. In fact, I gave the OP a quick and relativity easy fix if he/she does not want to deal with the third party trying to screw him.

 

[NStocks]

I never said don't get it fixed. In fact, I gave the OP a quick and relativity easy fix if he/she does not want to deal with the third party trying to screw him.

True. The third party is the consequence of Apple's mail/collection service for consumers who bought online and don't/can't get to a store. I'm not sure why they are sending it 200 miles away from my home though. Group 8 suck, theres no doubt about that, but this is the best option for me unless I want to pay to travel to a store. I will be contacting group 8 daily to see what they have found, then I will contact Apple to see what the next steps are i.e REPLACEMENT !

P.S I'm Male

 

[ayeying]

True. The third party is the consequence of Apple's mail/collection service for consumers who bought online and don't/can't get to a store. I'm not sure why they are sending it 200 miles away from my home though. Group 8 suck, theres no doubt about that, but this is the best option for me unless I want to pay to travel to a store. I will be contacting group 8 daily to see what they have found, then I will contact Apple to see what the next steps are i.e REPLACEMENT !

P.S I'm Male

No need to be more of a killjoy but unless you bought your system within the last month, you won't get a replacement until you've repaired that system more than 3 times for the same problem and still hasn't been fixed (aka, having parts replaced and didn't fixed the problem)

 

[NStocks]

No need to be more of a killjoy but unless you bought your system within the last month, you won't get a replacement until you've repaired that system more than 3 times for the same problem and still hasn't been fixed (aka, having parts replaced and didn't fixed the problem)

Yep, I accept that unfortunately.

 

[vant]

I never said don't get it fixed. In fact, I gave the OP a quick and relativity easy fix if he/she does not want to deal with the third party trying to screw him.

You gave the OP a solution to void his warranty. Judging by the fact that he is experiencing heat issues, it would be unwise for him to replace the thermal paste as this would surely lead to voiding if the issue is beyond the thermal paste.

 

[ayeying]

You gave the OP a solution to void his warranty. Judging by the fact that he is experiencing heat issues, it would be unwise for him to replace the thermal paste as this would surely lead to voiding if the issue is beyond the thermal paste.

I have yet to void my warranty due to a change of thermal paste. Done it on both discrete and unibody macbook pros, macbook air and macbooks... all still had their warranty intact. As long as you don't break anything, you shouldn't have an issue.

 

[vant]

I have yet to void my warranty due to a change of thermal paste. Done it on both discrete and unibody macbook pros, macbook air and macbooks... all still had their warranty intact. As long as you don't break anything, you shouldn't have an issue.

Although you haven't experienced issues, the thermal paste is not a user serviceable part. It is clear ground for a voiding if it is found.

 

[ayeying]

Show one post/proof that changing thermal paste voided the warranty. I have yet to see one.

 

[trondah]

Show one post/proof that changing thermal paste voided the warranty. I have yet to see one.

I'm sure that will be very comforting when the day comes that you need service on your MBP and they say the warranty is void because of the paste.

 

[RobTuck]

By now, I'd have brought these choice phrases into the mix:

"Not Fit for Purpose", "Unsatisfactory Quality" and "Sale of Goods Act 1979".

I suggest you check out section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act and contact the Citizens Advice Bureau. You are protected by law here.

Also, if the MBP is less than 6 months old, its up to Apple to prove that it wasn't faulty when it was sold to you. After that, you have to prove that it was faulty when you bought it.

I'm no legal expert, and I'm not offering any professional advice here, I've just been burnt a few times as a consumer myself.

 

[mark28]

Thanks for the info.

I'm been told different things by different people. Group 8 say that 110C is fine for a end user to experience. Apple's website says that 95C is too hot, macrumors is mixed info. I've not done anything wrong but when I try to have it fixed, neither party is willing to take me seriously when I say the computer is not at all performing correctly.

I'm not technical expert but given that water boils at 100C and my hands are touching Aluminium that has a contained temp of 106C I'm bound to feel a little annoyed. I know that I'm jumping through hoops/going around in circles but I'm not a technical expert. I'm using the ' service' that I paid for which is suppose to resolve my issues. Failing that, I will be on the phone again or emailing sjobs ( not that I want to or that it should go that far, don't start a war ! )

No way am I carrying out the work myself. I'd rather have the morons at Group 8 look at it, at least then Apple may sympathise with me when I say my problems are true and that it's taking them too long to fix it.

EDIT: When the CPU is 104 C, the heat-sink is around 75C, if that means anything.

Who do you believe? Apple or Intel

If Intel says the maximum operating temperature is 105 degrees, than that is the maximum. If Apple says otherwise, they are silly.

You might want to manually underclock the GPU & CPU for the meantime and check the Termal paste. If it will give problems with your warranty, demand that they re-apply thermal paste because Apple and Group 8 are idiots if they don't ( every 12 year old kid that custom builds their own PC's know immediately that they need to reapply thermal paste when this happens )

Personally, I would demand a brand new machine, because it's potentially damaged since due to Apple it has operated outside of the recommened window and potentially harmed your parts inside the computer.

 

[Ampidire]

Show one post/proof that changing thermal paste voided the warranty. I have yet to see one.

I'm sure that will be very comforting when the day comes that you need service on your MBP and they say the warranty is void because of the paste.

To these two quotes. I replaced the thermal paste on my Core Duo BlackBook way back when and it was warranty repaired a number of times, leading up to a replacement with a Penryn based Core 2 Duo BlackBook, which I also replaced the paste on, each time it made the machine much cooler running and easier to use on my lap and let the fans spin slower while maintaining a cooler temperature, then that MB was replaced with a Unibody Late 2008 MacBook which I traded with cash for a 15" Late 2008 MBP base model, and that machine was just warranty replaced over the past week with an i5 15" MBP and I'll be replacing the paste on this machine probably, not decided yet.

But I can say they could care less about the thermal paste inside the machines in my experience through *many* repairs.

 

[NStocks]

By now, I'd have brought these choice phrases into the mix:

"Not Fit for Purpose", "Unsatisfactory Quality" and "Sale of Goods Act 1979".

I suggest you check out section 14 of the Sale of Goods Act and contact the Citizens Advice Bureau. You are protected by law here.

Also, if the MBP is less than 6 months old, its up to Apple to prove that it wasn't faulty when it was sold to you. After that, you have to prove that it was faulty when you bought it.

I'm no legal expert, and I'm not offering any professional advice here, I've just been burnt a few times as a consumer myself.

Who do you believe? Apple or Intel

If Intel says the maximum operating temperature is 105 degrees, than that is the maximum. If Apple says otherwise, they are silly.

You might want to manually underclock the GPU & CPU for the meantime and check the Termal paste. If it will give problems with your warranty, demand that they re-apply thermal paste because Apple and Group 8 are idiots if they don't ( every 12 year old kid that custom builds their own PC's know immediately that they need to reapply thermal paste when this happens )

Personally, I would demand a brand new machine, because it's potentially damaged since due to Apple it has operated outside of the recommened window and potentially harmed your parts inside the computer.

Here's where I get slightly confused with Apple:

They put me through 4 different representatives, the main one being 2nd level technical to customer relations. Now surely if technical thought that it was impossible to do anything but have it inspected again, why would they put me through to customer relations as this is where replacements normally occur. To that, customer relations said " give me 20 minutes whilst I speak to a colleague " , 20 minutes later he said it needs to go for inspection again before we can ' move on '. I further argued my case and he said “give me 30 minutes whilst I speak to supervisor of Technical support as the temperatures don't mean anything to me ". 30 minutes later he says the same thing; it had to be inspected first.

Why would a CR rep. ask 2 different people of high authority about taking my case further or seeking different options? He did take a full 50 minutes to speak to other colleagues... I wonder what they were discussing i.e. that I'm lying or that a replacement could be set up if Group 8 tell us it's faulty.

I told him that the whole machine is potentially damaged and even if they repair the CPU or similar, who's to say something else will fail in the near future? I argued that AppleCare is for ' Peace of mind ', and how is it peace of mind if you 1) don't believe what I'm saying 2) ask me to send it off again to have it inspected by idiots who think it's perfectly normal for a end user to see temps of 106 C... I don't really care what Intel's website says, I didn't buy it from Intel I bought it from Apple. Under the sales of goods act, you are obliged to go by what the seller is telling you i.e. Apple say that 95 is too hot.

I told all Apple reps. that it was extremely hot, it's suppose to be a portable computer but you can barley lift it up for less than 30 secs before it leaves red marks on your hands ( and no I'm not being a 'wimp' theres nothing about discomfort in the spec. when you pick up the device )

Group 8 should receive my laptop today. I've created 3 videos of the computer reaching 106 C and the fans staying at 2000 - 3000 rpm, a video of what happens to the CAD file when the computer crashed (a message is displayed " This file can only opened on this computer with " Exclusive Access " in an emergency situation due to a system crash), this is an official message in ArchiCAD and is solid evidence for Group 8 or Apple to look at. I'm not sure if they can duplicate the system crash because they are fairly random, so they probably won't believe me on that.

Apparently, the CR Rep. who dealing with my case said that he will be in 'close contact' with Group 8 until my unit is sorted out. At this point I could argue all my points again, and hopefully Group 8 will confirm the faults. Apple may be understanding in that a £1,900 notebook shouldn't be sent of twice for inspection when they didn't even try the first time (IMHO) and for a 'Pro' unit, I'm not receiving the pro features or performance I paid for.

EDIT: I recall contacting AppleCare in November 2009 about some similar issues I was experiencing. They took 3 hours over the phone to transfer my AppleCare plan from a previous (DOA) machine but no further action was taken. Not that it will mean much now but if the Rep. wrote the details down Apple can see I've had problems as soon as I purchased it. It was purchased 29/07/2009

 

[ayeying]

I'm sure that will be very comforting when the day comes that you need service on your MBP and they say the warranty is void because of the paste.

That's speculation, not fact. I asked for a source, you can't provide any because there are none that voided their warranty due to a thermal paste change, at least from what has been reported online.

To these two quotes. I replaced the thermal paste on my Core Duo BlackBook way back when and it was warranty repaired a number of times, leading up to a replacement with a Penryn based Core 2 Duo BlackBook, which I also replaced the paste on, each time it made the machine much cooler running and easier to use on my lap and let the fans spin slower while maintaining a cooler temperature, then that MB was replaced with a Unibody Late 2008 MacBook which I traded with cash for a 15" Late 2008 MBP base model, and that machine was just warranty replaced over the past week with an i5 15" MBP and I'll be replacing the paste on this machine probably, not decided yet.

But I can say they could care less about the thermal paste inside the machines in my experience through *many* repairs.

I had my former MacBook Air brought in for a logic board replacement. They didn't bother changing the heatsink and was verified visually when I brought it home and changed the thermal paste myself. I had been using AS5 when I bought it in and Apple couldn't care less. As long as I didn't screw it up doing it, they won't really care. Thermal paste won't destroy hardware unless you screw it up, just like with replaceable parts. As long as you don't destroy it, Apple couldn't care less. If they wanted to care, they would put a "WARRANTY VOID" sticker like they do with the iMacs.

 

[vant]

That's speculation, not fact. I asked for a source, you can't provide any because there are none that voided their warranty due to a thermal paste change, at least from what has been reported online.



I had my former MacBook Air brought in for a logic board replacement. They didn't bother changing the heatsink and was verified visually when I brought it home and changed the thermal paste myself. I had been using AS5 when I bought it in and Apple couldn't care less. As long as I didn't screw it up doing it, they won't really care. Thermal paste won't destroy hardware unless you screw it up, just like with replaceable parts. As long as you don't destroy it, Apple couldn't care less. If they wanted to care, they would put a "WARRANTY VOID" sticker like they do with the iMacs.

And thermal paste servicing does not void your warranty is a fact?

This is equivalent to telling someone to invest in a stock. Are you going to be here if his warranty is voided? Your telling someone to take a thousand dollar risk. We don't have to search forums for a case of warranty voiding, it's pretty obvious that the thermal paste is not user serviceable. Just because you had a logic board replacement, doesn't mean they noticed the 3rd party paste.

Oh and btw, I'd stick to ceramique if I were you. I've used 3 tubes of as5 (i build for a hobby) and had 2 drying incidents. Searched around and noticed other reports as well.

 

[NStocks]

I've just received a call from Group 8. They said that the temps are 'normal' and that it's not a hardware issue . They said that the software (ArchiCAD) must be corrupt or something because he did not find anything wrong with the hardware. He asked me where I got the software, I replied by saying it was directly from Graphisoft, the manufacturer and was downloaded with an official educational license (that he can look at if he wanted). He said that if it was downloaded of the internet, I should request a hard copy from Graphisoft (they don't do this with educational licenses to my knowledge), uninstall the current version and re-install a hard copy. He went on to saying that it's only the software that is causing the heat issues (I can't believe he said this either!)

I said that the fans are running at idle rates, to that he replied “The fans are fine; they are running at normal speeds ". I said, how are they running correctly if they run at the same speed at both 40 C and 106 C? He said that if they needed to run any faster they would! I said that none of these issues happened before, it's not software related and how can you justify your answer which is a fan is perfectly normal to run at 2000rpm at 40C and 2000rpm at 106 C !

I went on to saying that it's not the software, I have colleagues who use the exact same software on their Unibody Mac's and they've had no issues. Of course this means nothing to them so he replied with, “I’ve got 6 models in, the same spec as yours with the same issues. None of them have failed the test"

I have no idea who they think they are talking to, I'm not an idiot, I know what temps are fine or not and I know that the software isn't causing the issue. They are wasting my time and taking me for a fool.

I asked him what happens next, he said that they will test the RAM next as this could be causing the crashes or heat issues. I said well what if all the tests come out ' clear '. He said “We will send it back to you "... Eventually I said that if no action is taken I will be contacting Apple as this in not at all acceptable. He said that if I were to return it to them again, " The ball would be in my park " because usually after 3 returns Apple send out a brand new unit ( I've always thought it was after 3 repairs they did this ). They also said that if it comes in again for inspection, Apple “up the bracket “which means a replacement is more economical. I assume this means that the cost of delivery and labour is not worth it for the 3rd attempt.

So not only has it being sent in again, and not only did I suspect they were going to waste my time (which I told Apple), but they are blaming the issues on software!

On the last 'inspection' they told me that their anwer is not concluusive until the tests have been running for 3 days straight. Not sure if they even do this, but that would mean that the result they just gave me is false because they've had the unit for less thatn 24 hours.

I'm looking forward to next week when they ring me again... I will be straight on the phone to Apple requesting a new one. If that doesn't happen, I will go through this whole process again as I'm not giving up on a replacement. Hopefully Apple will realise that...

Greatly disappointed with this, but I know it's not really Apple's fault (yet), until they deny me a replacement.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Group 8 are idiots.
Sorry but no matter what software you run temps should not be getting up that high. The software could be bad run the CPU at 100% full time and still you should not over heat or get that high.

It is a hardware issue. I think it might be time for you to fry the computer by heat. If Intel own spec sheets say 105C is max operating temp of the CPU the that is the max. Group 8 is blowing smoke up your ass.

Personally I would say it is not worth replacing the thermal past as the CPU as far as I am conserded is already damage and putting new thermal past on it can not fix the thermal damage already done.

 

[NStocks]

Group 8 are idiots.
Sorry but no matter what software you run temps should not be getting up that high. The software could be bad run the CPU at 100% full time and still you should not over heat or get that high.

It is a hardware issue. I think it might be time for you to fry the computer by heat. If Intel own spec sheets say 105C is max operating temp of the CPU the that is the max. Group 8 is blowing smoke up your ass.

Personally I would say it is not worth replacing the thermal past as the CPU as far as I am conserded is already damage and putting new thermal past on it can not fix the thermal damage already done.

I know right !

I think that group 8 feel they have higher authority to say what is acceptable and what is not acceptable temps, because they are handling the unit where ad intel aren't. There's no doubt that damage has already been done and I'm not settling for it. Maybe the apple technicians will have something better to say, more like figures that are states by intel. It does make me wonder what apples own tests criteria are though, if their service provider deny what intels spec sheet specifies.

Group 8 also said that I shouldn't worry about the heat as there are a few fail safes, should the thing actually overheat.

 

[vant]

I feel sorry for you. An Apple Store is a completely different experience.

By asking you to get a hard-disk copy of a software instead of a downloaded one, they are truly proving their ignorance.

 

[NStocks]

I feel sorry for you. An Apple Store is a completely different experience.

By asking you to get a hard-disk copy of a software instead of a downloaded one, they are truly proving their ignorance.

I don't think group 8 understand exactly what they are telling me. They are going against intels official spec and mow blaming software, which in this day and age is perfectly normal to be downloaded over the Internet.

To be honest, I don't care too much about what group 8 say... At the end of the day only Apple can make me a happy customer, the respect and trust in the service provider has gone completley.

I just want my (a) Mac to work and be reliable which was the point if buying such a unit, over a Dell. I know that sometimes things can go wrong but the service should make up for this. The group 8 guy was nice enough to speak to, he just spoke a load of rubbish.

 

[Deeya]

Sounds to me like Group 8 doesn't know how to properly diagnose the problem, and/or solve it, so they are tossing a bunch of tech-babble at you hoping you're ignorant about the situation so you will just go away.

That's what you should expect from Best Buy.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I don't think group 8 understand exactly what they are telling me. They are going against intels official spec and mow blaming software, which in this day and age is perfectly normal to be downloaded over the Internet.

To be honest, I don't care too much about what group 8 say... At the end of the day only Apple can make me a happy customer, the respect and trust in the service provider has gone completley.

I just want my (a) Mac to work and be reliable which was the point if buying such a unit, over a Dell. I know that sometimes things can go wrong but the service should make up for this. The group 8 guy was nice enough to speak to, he just spoke a load of rubbish.

Something I have learn when dealing with tech support is to start speaking their technoble language back with them. The only problem with that trick is you have to know what you are saying and speak it.

One of 3 things will happen. You will scare them because they know that they can not blow smoke up your ass and you can call them on it so they will quickly do the right thing and fix the problem.
2. They will be really happy because you just made their job a heck of a lot easier and will more likely start skipping some of the steps they are required to do because either you already have covered those things on your own trouble shooting and you can easily give them enough details. Plus they will just shoot the breeze with you during minor checks because you can talk with them,

3. My personal favorit is they have no clue what you are saying because you understand it better than day do. I have gotten that one and it was just "Let me send you to level 2".

I have gotten all 3. The first 1 where they really get scared and quickly changes is when you are able to call them on the BS or in my case I just happen to be listening in speaker phone and they start giving the BS and I speak up. Those are priceless ones.

My most common one has been number 2 and the tech support guys are pretty happy that they get to talk with some one who understands the techicobable

 

[NStocks]

Something I have learn when dealing with tech support is to start speaking their technoble language back with them. The only problem with that trick is you have to know what you are saying and speak it.

One of 3 things will happen. You will scare them because they know that they can not blow smoke up your ass and you can call them on it so they will quickly do the right thing and fix the problem.
2. They will be really happy because you just made their job a heck of a lot easier and will more likely start skipping some of the steps they are required to do because either you already have covered those things on your own trouble shooting and you can easily give them enough details. Plus they will just shoot the breeze with you during minor checks because you can talk with them,

3. My personal favorit is they have no clue what you are saying because you understand it better than day do. I have gotten that one and it was just "Let me send you to level 2".

I have gotten all 3. The first 1 where they really get scared and quickly changes is when you are able to call them on the BS or in my case I just happen to be listening in speaker phone and they start giving the BS and I speak up. Those are priceless ones.

My most common one has been number 2 and the tech support guys are pretty happy that they get to talk with some one who understands the techicobable

I did/do exactly that !

Apple technical support put me through to second level when I mentioned the high temps. Apple Customer Relations put me onto supervisor Technical support because he didn't know what the temps meant. Group 8 just say what I say but twist it around and say that it's ' normal'. I always feel that Apple 'appreciate' the fact that I know exactly what I'm talking about. Group 8 just ignore it... clearly shown when I mentioned thermal paste, Intel’s spec. and the level of rpm in relation to the CPU temp.

I'm kind of glad that group 8 are treating me like an idiot, or at least giving really poor reasons as to why my Mac is the way it is (software related). I will tell Apple the poor excuses/diagnosis that Group 8 have supposedly discovered and that they are not at all valid or justified. I will also ask Apple why kind of tests they implement and distribute that exceed the MAX. Operating temperature of the CPU's manufacturer’s specific and safe numbers.

Group 8 /Apple will not be getting out of this case without a good reasoning behind why there service is poor and why they assume I don't know/care what the real problems are.

Thanks for all your responses, in a few weeks there should be a good result for me

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that when Group 8 called, they said I have provided them with a very good report of the issues I'm experiencing. I created adesktop backgorund with instruction ( in Illustrator ) as to which file/video to open as well as what each video is showing. Solid proof has being provided in both video and image form.They seemed quite suprised to see it in such detail and solidity. Of course they have completley ignored this and still continue to treat me like I don't know a thing or that they are the gods of Technology, no matter what Intel say !