My Macbook Pro reached 106 degrees !

[Reelknead1]

I've been at home bored today so i decided to read through this whole thread. I'm really sorry for what you are going through that really stinks. I have a PPC G4 17 and the max i've ever seen it get up to is 141F.

106c is 220+ degrees F. Thats insane, I can barely hold my computer at 140 let alone temps that are above BOILING WATER. Next time you get pissed off at group 8 or apple go tell them to put there hand in a boiling pot of water after they tell you that 106c is "Normal"

I hope everything works out for you and stay strong. No matter how good the customer service is it still sucks to have to deal with them.

 

[NStocks]

I've been at home bored today so i decided to read through this whole thread. I'm really sorry for what you are going through that really stinks. I have a PPC G4 17 and the max i've ever seen it get up to is 141F.

106c is 220+ degrees F. Thats insane, I can barely hold my computer at 140 let alone temps that are above BOILING WATER. Next time you get pissed off at group 8 or apple go tell them to put there hand in a boiling pot of water after they tell you that 106c is "Normal"

I hope everything works out for you and stay strong. No matter how good the customer service is it still sucks to have to deal with them.

Wow, you must have being bored to read through 3 pages, especially through the long replies I leave !

The temps are CRAZY, Apple or group 8 don't understand exactly how hot 106 C is. I told Group 8 that it is suppose to be a portable device, and how can you move it if it's that hot. They said that it's not a laptop ( I never said it was ) and that it should always be on a flat surface . I said yes, but it's a portable device which means you shouldn't be limited to a desk with 2 fans blowing cool air onto it, just so your hands don't sweat!

I'm really looking forward to what next week may bring. I told the Apple Customer relations Rep. who promised me he will overlook my case until it's sorted, that I'm wasting my time sending it in for another 'inspection'. He said that it still needs to be sent in before we can 'move on'. That's fine, it's wasting my time (and the companys money (Apple) just having it shipped 200 miles away from me ), so by all means have it inspected again if you feel it will change the 'tests' group 8 run.. I'm interested to see what he says when I say " So it was another waste of time after all ! "

Thanks to all who help me/follow me on this. I didn't realise how 'big' this thread has become: I've seen it linked in 2 other threads of people with similar heat issues, although they are only getting temps of up to 90C ( only 90C ! , I know right )

Just incase they replace my unit with a i5 model, I've being following all the heat related threads with core i5's ( though they seem to be mainly with 15" units )And also the screen issues some people have experienced ( mainly 15" again )

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to think you should take the long ride down to the Apple store. Either that or do some googling on how to force the unit to fail. You'd just have to be very careful to not start a fire, but there are ways to do it if vigilant. Cut off the vents and you'd force a logic board failure rather quickly......

 

[NStocks]

I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to think you should take the long ride down to the Apple store. Either that or do some googling on how to force the unit to fail. You'd just have to be very careful to not start a fire, but there are ways to do it if vigilant. Cut off the vents and you'd force a logic board failure rather quickly......

I was really tempted to go to the Apple store but I don't want it to be a waste of time, should they say it's 'normal'. I feel fairly confident that Apple will replace my unit when I call them (after Group 8 call me) next week. Failing that, I will have it sent of again, have it sent back again, call the CR rep. and tell him it's time for a new one. It probably seems that I'm 'playing' with Apple/Group 8, but I'm in no big hurry and the longer it takes for them to sort it, the better chance I have of getting a new unit/compensation

Failing all of the above, I will force the unit to fail. It's already broke, so damaging it isn't like fraud or anything, it's just getting the point across more drastically. ( 10 degrees more )

 

[DoFoT9]

OP: when you say 106°C - do you mean that it can sit there for any amount of time? what are the fans doing? how new is this laptop?

frankly, 106°C is an outrage, its pathetic and something is definitely wrong. get some others to post their temperatures for the same model and you will see numbers such as 60°C ->80°C.

have you observed your fan speed (sorry, havent read through the whole thread).

and if it comes to it - DEMAND a new computer. the TjMax temps ARE NOT estimates, that apple idiot who said so knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about computers if that is the case.

 

[NStocks]

OP: when you say 106°C - do you mean that it can sit there for any amount of time? what are the fans doing? how new is this laptop?

frankly, 106°C is an outrage, its pathetic and something is definitely wrong. get some others to post their temperatures for the same model and you will see numbers such as 60°C ->80°C.

have you observed your fan speed (sorry, havent read through the whole thread).

and if it comes to it - DEMAND a new computer. the TjMax temps ARE NOT estimates, that apple idiot who said so knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about computers if that is the case.

When using Graphic Intensive Applicaitons ( Archicad, Photoshop ) the CPU is between 90C and 106C, mainly 106C when rendering in ArchiCAD. The fans stay between 2000rpm and 2500rpm no matter what the temperature of the CPU is at, the AASP think this is 'normal' and if the fans needer to go any faster they would. After the render is finished ( 20 mins should take less than 8 ) the CPU eventually drops, but only after 40 minutes or so does it go below 60C. I've read a fair few threads about other users and their Temperatures, I'm somewhat shocked that they think 70C is too hot. I think 70C is fine when using Graphic intensive Apps, but certinally not 106C. The Mac was purchased 29/07/09, so just under 12 months old.

I will make sure Apple know that I won't give up until I get a brand new 17" Core i5 unit, but I think they already know this, given the fact I wouldn't get off the phone for over 2 hours arguing (calmly) with them. Group 8 are pathetic, they have no idea of what hot is or what speeds the fans should run at ( maybe they have being brainwashed by what the Apple tests show them )

BTW, what is Tjmax ? Is it an abbreviation for the manufacturer/company( Intel )

 

[DoFoT9]

When using Graphic Intensive Applicaitons ( Archicad, Photoshop ) the CPU is between 90C and 106C, mainly 106C when rendering in ArchiCAD. The fans stay between 2000rpm and 2500rpm no matter what the temperature of the CPU is at, the AASP think this is 'normal' and if the fans needer to go any faster they would. After the render is finished ( 20 mins should take less than 8 ) the CPU eventually drops, but only after 40 minutes or so does it go below 60C. I've read a fair few threads about other users and their Temperatures, I'm somewhat shocked that they think 70C is too hot. I think 70C is fine when using Graphic intensive Apps, but certinally not 106C. The Mac was purchased 29/07/09, so just under 12 months old.

2500rpm! well that explains it then - there is clearly some sort of either
1. software glitch - the fans are not optimised enough
2. hardware glitch - the temperatures are not being correctly communicated to the OS (which controls the fans), or maybe the thermal paste has been incorrectly applied.

either way -- the fans SHOULD be hitting 6000rpm at those temperatures. for the meantime i suggest you try a fan controlling app (SMCFan/iCyclone etc).

I will make sure Apple know that I won't give up until I get a brand new 17" Core i5 unit, but I think they already know this, given the fact I wouldn't get off the phone for over 2 hours arguing (calmly) with them. Group 8 are pathetic as you said. They have no idea of what hot is or what speeds the fans should run at ( maybe they have being brainwashed by what the Apple tests show them )

yea they sound brainwashed. the fans change (sometimes slowly, but they do change) depending on the fan speed. if if using 100% CPU on my MBP, the fans rev up to ~5500rpm for a few minutes until the temp drops, then after 10mins they will hover around 3500rpm keeping it at roughly 80°C. if i manually push the fans to 6000rpm it will hover around 60°C. this is on my MBP from 2007 (Intel Core Duo) - probably the HOTTEST chip made of recent years (it idles at 80°C at stock fan speeds).

BTW, what is Tjmax ? Is it an abbreviation for the manufacturer/company( Intel )

TjMax is a term that comes directly from Intel. it is a number that they have produced that is EXTREMELY researched. it outlines the maximum temperature for which they have found the CPU will operate. i am not big on the specifics, but basically - if it goes over or anywhere near that temperature, its a BAD thing. for this reason - you should really demand a new machine.

 

[NStocks]

2500rpm! well that explains it then - there is clearly some sort of either
1. software glitch - the fans are not optimised enough
2. hardware glitch - the temperatures are not being correctly communicated to the OS (which controls the fans), or maybe the thermal paste has been incorrectly applied.

either way -- the fans SHOULD be hitting 6000rpm at those temperatures. for the meantime i suggest you try a fan controlling app (SMCFan/iCyclone etc).


yea they sound brainwashed. the fans change (sometimes slowly, but they do change) depending on the fan speed. if if using 100% CPU on my MBP, the fans rev up to ~5500rpm for a few minutes until the temp drops, then after 10mins they will hover around 3500rpm keeping it at roughly 80°C. if i manually push the fans to 6000rpm it will hover around 60°C. this is on my MBP from 2007 (Intel Core Duo) - probably the HOTTEST chip made of recent years (it idles at 80°C at stock fan speeds).


TjMax is a term that comes directly from Intel. it is a number that they have produced that is EXTREMELY researched. it outlines the maximum temperature for which they have found the CPU will operate. i am not big on the specifics, but basically - if it goes over or anywhere near that temperature, its a BAD thing. for this reason - you should really demand a new machine.

Thank You,

The fans sometimes speed up to 4500rpm in the past month or so, but when I first had the computer they ran perfectly fine. Group 8 are blaming software (ArchiCAD) for that fans not speeding up to cool the CPU but when I asked what their test showed, he said that the fans only speed up if they NEED to. 106C is hot, of course the fans NEED to speed up but your not telling my when they are not.

Regarding TjMax, Group 8 said that they computers fail safe will only kick in if it's getting to hot, again IF it's getting to how (which as you know, it is). I said that Intels website states 105C is too how and now your telling me the failsafe didn't kick in, what gives ? He said before the CPU failsafe kicks in, the one on the Logic board will initiate first... still didn't answer my question about why the CPU failsafe kicked in, but rather said that there are other failsafes.

Also, I said that Apple's website states that 95C is too hot. He said that this is for the older models, the Unibody model is designed to go hotter than that. If he meant due to the Aluminium being a thermal conductor, fair play. I'm not so sure the CPU's are designed to get hotter.

A quick research of TjMax : From another forum (a PC overclocking forum)

" For Intel processors Tjmax is not the true maximum core junction temperature but the maximum core temperature at which Intel considers the CPU as operating in specification.
Whether throttling occurs at Tjmax will be dependent on the whether the automatic thermal control circuit (TCC) is enabled. Note that Intel consider the CPU operating out of spec if automatic TCC is disabled.
CPU shutdown may occur some ~20C above Tjmax.
The BIOS / ACPI may throttle and/or shut down the system before the CPU does.

CPUs are sold with a warranty based on the CPU operating in specification. AFAIK if you have a 3 year warranty and operate within specification the manufacturer is saying they expect it to last at least that long or they will replace it as a defective CPU. Technically this could mean with a Tjmax of 100C you should be able to operate at 99C 24/7 as long as everything else is in spec. It's normally a good idea though to keep electronics cool and although the case temperature should be less than this, perhaps ~70C when the core is at 100C, it will be heating up the other components nearby too. "

First few lines are exactly what Group 8 said, the last paragraph is the spec. in which I base my replies on ( I'm no expert, I have no technical experience so I have the right to go by what the chip manufacturer is telling me ). I don't care too much if it CAN go 20C higher, if the spec. says 105C, then 105C is too hot, not give or take 20C !

 

[m85476585]

A few comments:

It doesn't matter that 100C is hot enough to boil water, because the outside of the computer isn't getting that hot. The engine in your car may reach hundreds of degrees, but you are protected from it. Similarly, it doesn't matter what temperature the CPU reaches as long as it is within the spec and the outside of the computer isn't getting too hot. 140 F will produce 2nd degree burns in 5 seconds, and 160F will cause burns in .5 seconds*. I'd be concerned if the outside of the computer was anywhere near 140F. A rough check is if you can hold your finger on the metal indefinitely without pain, it is OK, but if you have to pull your finger off after a few seconds, it's too hot.

Intel CPUs have at least two protection measures in place. Above TJmax, the CPU will throttle down to reduce heat output. That means if your CPU exceeds 105C, the computer will not be operating at full speed, which I would say is unacceptable. you bought a computer that was advertised to run at full speed, so it should always be able to run at full speed within the operating temperature range (up to 35C ambient).

The second protection measure is a shutdown at some higher temperature. I don't know if this temperature is officially documented anywhere, but I have heard 125C mentioned before. This temperature should never under normal conditions, and thermal shutdown is designed for worst-case conditions like trying to operate with no heatsink attached at all. AMD CPUs don't have this protection, and they will literally explode if powered on with no heatsink (there's a video somewhere).

The crash(es) you experienced could be caused by the GPU, which may not have as much thermal protection. Nvidia doesn't like to publish any documentation.

The diodes used to measure temperature in CPUs are not very accurate, and ~5C or more variability is possible. They are good enough to protect the CPU from damage, but otherwise they can't be relied on for much information. It is very possible that if the normal operating temperature is 100C, and you have a diode that's off by 5 degrees, the computer could hit 105C and throttle down when everything should be normal. But that's why the normal operating temperature shouldn't be 100C; there needs to be some margin to account for variation in heatsinks, temperature diodes, and all kinds of other variation introduced by the manufacturing process. It seems like Apple has been pushing the thermal margins lately to get quieter computers with longer battery life, but maybe they are going too far if they can't reliably manufacture the cooling system.

I wouldn't be surprised if newer MBPs start failing early due to excessive temperatures. there shouldn't be any problem lasting the 3 years that AppleCare covers, but beyond that we can probably expect a lot more failures. Anyone know if Apple publishes a MTBF for MBPs?


*these numbers are based on burns caused by hot water, and I assume times and temperatures for aluminum would be similar.

 

[DoFoT9]

Thank You,

no probs

The fans sometimes speed up to 4500rpm in the past month or so, but when I first had the computer they ran perfectly fine. Group 8 are blaming software (ArchiCAD) for that fans not speeding up to cool the CPU but when I asked what their test showed, he said that the fans only speed up if they NEED to. 106C is hot, of course the fans NEED to speed up but your not telling my when they are not.

well he could be right, it could be software based. i wonder if its worth attempting to run an OS reinstall (archive and install)??

Regarding TjMax, Group 8 said that they computers fail safe will only kick in if it's getting to hot, again IF it's getting to how (which as you know, it is). I said that Intels website states 105C is too how and now your telling me the failsafe didn't kick in, what gives ? He said before the CPU failsafe kicks in, the one on the Logic board will initiate first... still didn't answer my question about why the CPU failsafe kicked in, but rather said that there are other failsafes.

i was under that the failsafe was 110°C, but i have seen a friends computer at 115°C and it did not shut down. it would probably take a few minutes for it to kick in. i am not 100% sure on that one though.

Also, I said that Apple's website states that 95C is too hot. He said that this is for the older models, the Unibody model is designed to go hotter than that. If he meant due to the Aluminium being a thermal conductor, fair play. I'm not so sure the CPU's are designed to get hotter.

baha. that is a load of bullcrap tbh. i can only laugh at that.

A quick research of TjMax : From another forum (a PC overclocking forum)

" For Intel processors Tjmax is not the true maximum core junction temperature but the maximum core temperature at which Intel considers the CPU as operating in specification.
Whether throttling occurs at Tjmax will be dependent on the whether the automatic thermal control circuit (TCC) is enabled. Note that Intel consider the CPU operating out of spec if automatic TCC is disabled.
CPU shutdown may occur some ~20C above Tjmax.
The BIOS / ACPI may throttle and/or shut down the system before the CPU does.

CPUs are sold with a warranty based on the CPU operating in specification. AFAIK if you have a 3 year warranty and operate within specification the manufacturer is saying they expect it to last at least that long or they will replace it as a defective CPU. Technically this could mean with a Tjmax of 100C you should be able to operate at 99C 24/7 as long as everything else is in spec. It's normally a good idea though to keep electronics cool and although the case temperature should be less than this, perhaps ~70C when the core is at 100C, it will be heating up the other components nearby too. "

First few lines are exactly what Group 8 said, the last paragraph is the spec. in which I base my replies on ( I'm no expert, I have no technical experience so I have the right to go by what the chip manufacturer is telling me ). I don't care too much if it CAN go 20C higher, if the spec. says 105C, then 105C is too hot, not give or take 20C !

that explains why the computer isnt actually shutting off then, but it certainly doesnt justify the temperatures that you are hitting.

like i said, comparing to other computers of the same model would yield ~80°C max. the fans would spin up etc. is it possible to attempt a reinstall of the OS?

sorry for my vague replies, at uni

edit:

A few comments:
....Similarly, it doesn't matter what temperature the CPU reaches as long as it is within the spec and the outside of the computer isn't getting too hot. .....

it doesnt matter, but it is NOT ordinary for this computer - ive never come across this model getting hotter then 80°C (as the fans kick in. point being that its an ordinary case, yes it is within spec, but not within the "norms" which i consider to be unacceptable

 

[NStocks]

well he could be right, it could be software based. i wonder if its worth attempting to run an OS reinstall (archive and install)??

like i said, comparing to other computers of the same model would yield ~80°C max. the fans would spin up etc. is it possible to attempt a reinstall of the OS?

edit:

it doesnt matter, but it is NOT ordinary for this computer - ive never come across this model getting hotter then 80°C (as the fans kick in. point being that its an ordinary case, yes it is within spec, but not within the "norms" which i consider to be unacceptable

I've already done an archive and install, Apple and group 8 asked me this also. The program, ArchiCAD has also been reinstalled.

I too have not seen a Unibody MBP to exceed 80C either.

 

[DoFoT9]

I've already done an archive and install, Apple and group 8 asked me this also. The program, ArchiCAD has alto been reinstalled.

ahh right - sorry, i must have missed that comment.

everything seems to be pointing to hardware then

 

[NStocks]

A few comments:

It doesn't matter that 100C is hot enough to boil water, because the outside of the computer isn't getting that hot. The engine in your car may reach hundreds of degrees, but you are protected from it. Similarly, it doesn't matter what temperature the CPU reaches as long as it is within the spec and the outside of the computer isn't getting too hot. 140 F will produce 2nd degree burns in 5 seconds, and 160F will cause burns in .5 seconds*. I'd be concerned if the outside of the computer was anywhere near 140F. A rough check is if you can hold your finger on the metal indefinitely without pain, it is OK, but if you have to pull your finger off after a few seconds, it's too hot.

Intel CPUs have at least two protection measures in place. Above TJmax, the CPU will throttle down to reduce heat output. That means if your CPU exceeds 105C, the computer will not be operating at full speed, which I would say is unacceptable. you bought a computer that was advertised to run at full speed, so it should always be able to run at full speed within the operating temperature range (up to 35C ambient).

The second protection measure is a shutdown at some higher temperature. I don't know if this temperature is officially documented anywhere, but I have heard 125C mentioned before. This temperature should never under normal conditions, and thermal shutdown is designed for worst-case conditions like trying to operate with no heatsink attached at all. AMD CPUs don't have this protection, and they will literally explode if powered on with no heatsink (there's a video somewhere).

The crash(es) you experienced could be caused by the GPU, which may not have as much thermal protection. Nvidia doesn't like to publish any documentation.

The diodes used to measure temperature in CPUs are not very accurate, and ~5C or more variability is possible. They are good enough to protect the CPU from damage, but otherwise they can't be relied on for much information. It is very possible that if the normal operating temperature is 100C, and you have a diode that's off by 5 degrees, the computer could hit 105C and throttle down when everything should be normal. But that's why the normal operating temperature shouldn't be 100C; there needs to be some margin to account for variation in heatsinks, temperature diodes, and all kinds of other variation introduced by the manufacturing process. It seems like Apple has been pushing the thermal margins lately to get quieter computers with longer battery life, but maybe they are going too far if they can't reliably manufacture the cooling system.

I wouldn't be surprised if newer MBPs start failing early due to excessive temperatures. there shouldn't be any problem lasting the 3 years that AppleCare covers, but beyond that we can probably expect a lot more failures. Anyone know if Apple publishes a MTBF for MBPs?


*these numbers are based on burns caused by hot water, and I assume times and temperatures for aluminum would be similar.

And why couldn't Group 8 tell me any of this...

Firstly, when I touch the aluminium, near the screen it is very, very hot. I mean unbearable, 5 seconds of that and you are burnt. Not only was the Aluminium hot, the black casing in which the screen cable is housed ( the hinge ) is also hot... as was my desk. Since I don't have the Mac, I can't say exactly hot how the aluminium was (I have iStat Pro, does this state the temp ?)

I see what you mean with the temperature diodes not being to accurate, but this doesn't give Group 8 the right to 'alter' the safe operating temperature, which was around 111C. They managed to get the temps from 107-111C under full CPU stress tests and claim that that is fine for a end-user to experience this. They are suppose to be testing the RAM tomorrow as this can be intermittent when it comes to crashes, which I have to agree with as the crashes were fairly random.

Could the new MBP really only last 3 years due to the heat they have being subject to ? I don't expect it to last forever, and 3 years is good but given the technology advances in recent years, you'd have though they would make them last longer ? (I would have most likley sold my mac before the Applecare Plan was up anyway. Also, if Apple give me a new unit, should they transfer the Applecare to that unit as it is related to serial numbers, not customers or date when purchased?)

 

[NStocks]

ahh right - sorry, i must have missed that comment.

everything seems to be pointing to hardware then

I'm inclined to agree with that one. It's a shame Apple's tests/service provider can't belive or prove it , at least that way I would be making some progress.

 

[csc2ky]

I know where you are coming from. My 2.8GHz MBP 15-inch unit purchased in October '09 did and does still exhibit very similar issues like yours. Under full load the CPU would go as high as 106°C and the fans would stay around 2,500RPM. I still have to experience some software crashes related to this though, which makes me believe that there might be something wrong with your RAM after all.

I brought it to an AASP, and showed them what is going on. I did this by running

yes > /dev/null​

in two separate Terminal windows and monitoring temperatures with iStat Menu. The yes > /dev/null command puts 100% load on a core, and running this twice will have both cores running maxed out. As soon as the tech saw this behavior, he suggested to change the thermal paste. Although this did not explain the fans revving up eventually, it was worth a try.

The temp still sky rockets up to 102°C when pushed, but the fans do their work now at least. I did reset the SMC twice, before they started to act normal though.

Have Apple/Group 8 replace the thermal paste and check your machine again. Last resort would be to change your logic board and RAM. For an outright exchange you need to have a bit of luck and push them for it somewhat. Demand a permanent solution for your issues. I wish you good luck to get this resolved.

 

[kousuke18]

I was in a similar situation with my late 2008 umbp. The cpu temp would rise until 105C and the fans would still sit idle at 2000rpm. At the time, there was no apple store in my area so I brought it into an authorized apple repair shop and the said there was nothing wrong with my computer and that the temperature monitoring app (istat) I was using was not an "official" apple application so the temperature readings were wrong.

In the end, the technician refused to order a new logic board from apple or do anything to fix the computer, and apple wouldn't let me send in the laptop for them to take a look at it.

Up until recently, one of my usb ports died and had the logic board replaced, and sure enough the original problem was fixed...

 

[m85476585]

And why couldn't Group 8 tell me any of this...

Firstly, when I touch the aluminium, near the screen it is very, very hot. I mean unbearable, 5 seconds of that and you are burnt. Not only was the Aluminium hot, the black casing in which the screen cable is housed ( the hinge ) is also hot... as was my desk. Since I don't have the Mac, I can't say exactly hot how the aluminium was (I have iStat Pro, does this state the temp ?)

I see what you mean with the temperature diodes not being to accurate, but this doesn't give Group 8 the right to 'alter' the safe operating temperature, which was around 111C. They managed to get the temps from 107-111C under full CPU stress tests and claim that that is fine for a end-user to experience this. They are suppose to be testing the RAM tomorrow as this can be intermittent when it comes to crashes, which I have to agree with as the crashes were fairly random.

Could the new MBP really only last 3 years due to the heat they have being subject to ? I don't expect it to last forever, and 3 years is good but given the technology advances in recent years, you'd have though they would make them last longer ? (I would have most likley sold my mac before the Applecare Plan was up anyway. Also, if Apple give me a new unit, should they transfer the Applecare to that unit as it is related to serial numbers, not customers or date when purchased?)

Apparently Group 8 doesn't want to fix your MBP for some reason. iStat gives an "enclosure base" temp, but I wouldn't trust it. If you have a way of measuring the temperature directly, you could do that, but I don't think there is any specification or limit for case temperature. Don't use an infrared (non-contact) thermometer to measure the case temperature because they don't give accurate readings on aluminum.

The specification should account for any variance, so no one but Intel can tell you anything different is OK. What if you had a temp sensor reading 5C too low, but the temperature at which the CPU melts was 115C (it isn't, but for the sake of argument...). If your CPU reached 111C, it would actually be at 116C, and it would melt. I'm sure Intel does extensive testing to set the temperature limits on their CPUs for maximum reliability.

I'm just speculating that MBPs might not last long, and there isn't any good way to know for sure. The life of a product can be estimated by either group failure rate (given a large sample of MBPs, how often is one failing) or accelerated lifespan testing by stressing a small sample of machines at a high temperature or rapid temperature cycles. Apple has likely done this kind of testing and they should have a good idea of how long their machines will last, but they have good reason not to publish that data.

 

[ayeying]

Apparently Group 8 doesn't want to fix your MBP for some reason. iStat gives an "enclosure base" temp, but I wouldn't trust it. If you have a way of measuring the temperature directly, you could do that, but I don't think there is any specification or limit for case temperature. Don't use an infrared (non-contact) thermometer to measure the case temperature because they don't give accurate readings on aluminum.

iStat gives the temperatures by their sensors located throughout the board. The enclosure sensor is located near the grounding tips of the logic board. It gives a fairly accurate reading within a few degrees.

 

[NStocks]

I was in a similar situation with my late 2008 umbp. The cpu temp would rise until 105C and the fans would still sit idle at 2000rpm. At the time, there was no apple store in my area so I brought it into an authorized apple repair shop and the said there was nothing wrong with my computer and that the temperature monitoring app (istat) I was using was not an "official" apple application so the temperature readings were wrong.

In the end, the technician refused to order a new logic board from apple or do anything to fix the computer, and apple wouldn't let me send in the laptop for them to take a look at it.

Up until recently, one of my usb ports died and had the logic board replaced, and sure enough the original problem was fixed...

It does make me wonder what/how Group 8 have tested the Logic Board. I'm not sure how they do test them, so I didn't question him when he said it has passed the test...

Apparently Group 8 doesn't want to fix your MBP for some reason. iStat gives an "enclosure base" temp, but I wouldn't trust it. If you have a way of measuring the temperature directly, you could do that, but I don't think there is any specification or limit for case temperature. Don't use an infrared (non-contact) thermometer to measure the case temperature because they don't give accurate readings on aluminum.

The specification should account for any variance, so no one but Intel can tell you anything different is OK. What if you had a temp sensor reading 5C too low, but the temperature at which the CPU melts was 115C (it isn't, but for the sake of argument...). If your CPU reached 111C, it would actually be at 116C, and it would melt. I'm sure Intel does extensive testing to set the temperature limits on their CPUs for maximum reliability.

I'm just speculating that MBPs might not last long, and there isn't any good way to know for sure. The life of a product can be estimated by either group failure rate (given a large sample of MBPs, how often is one failing) or accelerated lifespan testing by stressing a small sample of machines at a high temperature or rapid temperature cycles. Apple has likely done this kind of testing and they should have a good idea of how long their machines will last, but they have good reason not to publish that data.

I would agree, Group 8 are just leaving my Mac to go through a quick test, assume everything is ok and that I'm none the wiser. Like all conversations I've had regarding this unit, they become 'bored' with what I'm saying and just finish by saying " I appreciate your fustration, we are doing everything we can, we will test RAM tomorrow and contact you in 5 days"...

I now understand fully what he meant by " Intel's figure are rounded up/down " The temperature diodes can't alway be 100% accurate and he know this. Instead of taking the temps in a bad way, he suggested that they are in fact running higher than what the CPU actually is. Like what others have posted, the damage has or at least probably is already done. They won't even replace the thermal paste, which is what Apple said...a fairly simple task that could have solved the problem. Although, it doesn't explain the fans or crashes, but at least if they had done more, the could eliminate certain elements.

I know where you are coming from. My 2.8GHz MBP 15-inch unit purchased in October '09 did and does still exhibit very similar issues like yours. Under full load the CPU would go as high as 106°C and the fans would stay around 2,500RPM. I still have to experience some software crashes related to this though, which makes me believe that there might be something wrong with your RAM after all.

I brought it to an AASP, and showed them what is going on. I did this by running

yes > /dev/null​

in two separate Terminal windows and monitoring temperatures with iStat Menu. The yes > /dev/null command puts 100% load on a core, and running this twice will have both cores running maxed out. As soon as the tech saw this behavior, he suggested to change the thermal paste. Although this did not explain the fans revving up eventually, it was worth a try.

The temp still sky rockets up to 102°C when pushed, but the fans do their work now at least. I did reset the SMC twice, before they started to act normal though.

Have Apple/Group 8 replace the thermal paste and check your machine again. Last resort would be to change your logic board and RAM. For an outright exchange you need to have a bit of luck and push them for it somewhat. Demand a permanent solution for your issues. I wish you good luck to get this resolved.

Apple mentioned that the thermal paste could be changed, but group 8 didn't say anything about this. Group 8 are testing the RAM today (apparantley) to see if that is causing the crashes...if it doesn't seem to be the RAM, I'm sue they will blame the software again!

Group 8 also said that if I sent it in again, Apple would " Increase the Bracket, which put the ball in my park". I took this as Apple don't want to spend anymore money having it sent in as it's a waste of time, so you are more likley to get it repalced... that's what Group 8 said though not Apple.

 

[ouimetnick]

When stressing the CPU on my mom's MBP 13" Temps are around 189F with fans at 2000-3100 RPM, so it seems pretty cool.

 

[burp]

group 8 should be sentenced to maintain a respectful distance of let's say 1km from any electronic device.

maybe you can deal with those idiots in another way,
focus on performance.

let them choose an application which heavily stresses the cpu.
when the app runs a task on a normal reference mbp, it will take X minutes to complete.
on your it will take X*2 minutes, because the cpu starts lowering its frequency when close to tjmax.

then ask them whether you did pay for a netbook or for a powerful 2.8GHz mbp.

anyway, good luck. i hope you'll end up with a functioning product asap.

 

[ayeying]

group 8 should be sentenced to maintain a respectful distance of let's say 1km from any electronic device.

maybe you can deal with those idiots in another way,
focus on performance.

let them choose an application which heavily stresses the cpu.
when the app runs a task on a normal reference mbp, it will take X minutes to complete.
on your it will take X*2 minutes, because the cpu starts lowering its frequency when close to tjmax.

then ask them whether you did pay for a netbook or for a powerful 2.8GHz mbp.

anyway, good luck. i hope you'll end up with a functioning product asap.

The system does NOT low frequency. Only the MBA has that feature when temperatures get high but not the MBPs. They will remain the same frequency even passing the TjMax limit.

 

[trondah]

I'd like to share a similar story. My 2009 MBP 13.3" 2.53GHz also reached the same temps. It relatively quickly went up to 100C and under torture testing it would hit 107C. The casing was extremely hot to the touch near the screen and on the bottom. Fans did not kick in. Even significantly undervolting the CPU with Coolbook did not help much, it would still reach 90+ degrees.

At the time I worked for a company that had their own Apple certified repair shop. I showed them the problem and they took it in for further testing. They agreed that something was wrong, as the fans were supposed to kick in. Once I got it back I was told that they had replaced the logic board THREE times in order to try and remedy the problem. It did not help and finally they had called Apple and got a reply that the temperature "was acceptable". What I don't get is how could three different logic boards have the same problem?

I finally just sold the damn thing and bought a 2010 MBP 13.3" 2.4GHz. In a cool room it is idling at about 40C give or take and its hard to get it over 80C during torture testing. The difference is night and day.

I should also add that I previously have had a 2008 MB (unibody) 13.3" 2.4GHz which was also quite cool. The way I see it the casing of the 2009 MBP had to have been the problem somehow. Or maybe horrible thermal paste on all of them, I never checked because I didn't want to void my warranty.

 

[DoFoT9]

...Once I got it back I was told that they had replaced the logic board THREE times in order to try and remedy the problem.

i have always been puzzled by this. generally, if you have a logic board replaced you will end up having a few for one reason or another. i have no idea why!!

 

[burp]

The system does NOT low frequency. Only the MBA has that feature when temperatures get high but not the MBPs. They will remain the same frequency even passing the TjMax limit.

TM1, idle cycle inserted in the queue
and TM2 reduction of frequency
should be both sort of built in in the C2D and kick in at high temperature regardless of the operating system / BIOS.

in any case, that's not the point.
the point is that there is a drop in performance (as in the OP case, when it takes 20 min instead of 8 to do some rendering),
which should be a clear sign of a problem also for the brain-dead group 8.