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This is a good writeup, but it’s not considering the state of the competition/alternatives. The truth is that the others (Windows and Android) have been also suffering from en********ation, I’d argue to a higher degree, especially Windows. So all in all, even if Apple software seems not as good as it used to be, it is still better in important ways than the others.
 
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This is a good writeup, but it’s not considering the state of the competition/alternatives. The truth is that the others (Windows and Android) ...
It's not just Windows and Android these days as competition or alternatives; the world out there is vast and full of options, with new operating systems and chips emerging rapidly.
 
So fast that tasks were taking under 30 seconds on the M1. The M5 is about 50% faster than that, or 15 seconds.
If the M1 takes 30 seconds and the M5 takes 15 seconds then the M5 is 200% as fast as the M1 which is 100% faster. It takes 50% of the time for the same task.
 
It's not just Windows and Android these days as competition or alternatives; the world out there is vast and full of options, with new operating systems and chips emerging rapidly.
There used to be two operating systems called Windows, now there's one. There used to be many Unix operating systems, now most of them are dead, the BSDs are in a niche, and nearly everything else is Linux. Mobile has consolidated to Android and iOS. Desktop has consolidated to Windows and some macOS. Servers have consolidated to Linux and some Windows. SteamOS is Linux. Raspberry Pi is Linux. Even Android and Chrome OS are half Linux. What are the new operating systems you are referring to?
 
Its because the OS's are getting bigger and more complex

/thread
This is Apple, like it or not, they favour removing things over keeping backwards compatibility. They removed 32bit support. They removed Carbon support. Just to name two big ones. The "bigger and more complex" is in peripheral areas like AI.
 
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Even Android and Chrome OS are half Linux.
Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. GNU is the OS behind it. A long time ago, it used to be called GNU/Linux. Android is not "half-Linux"; it runs on a Linux kernel, while the OS behind it is derived from Gentoo. All Linux distributions use a modified Linux kernel tailored to suit their specific distributions.
What are the new operating systems you are referring to?
Those that don't use either the Windows kernel, Linux kernel, Mach microkernel, or even a modified BSD Unix kernel XNU, or Darwin, such as Harmony OS, are written specifically for their own chip(s). There are a few such kernels and chips out there, supported by large, wealthy companies.
 
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seems me that everything is downgraded as far as service,
ever notice how workers have gotten so lackadaisical in work ethics this century?
why should  make a perfect OS or even a better one?
as how many Mac users will get a M5 for half the value of an m1 so Tahoe will function?

then again this degradation is effecting search engines.
this week I am searching for a
road bike wheel-700c-rim brake-135mm-11 speed-presta-23,25 mm tire under $200 USD.
nothing, not on Amazon, performance bike, trek, Jenson or other site that sell road bike tires.
also the specs change on some sites as I select an item that changes to 8 speed only.

since these lackadaisical designers or SEO are behind that cheap DELL
using adequate web designer software adding lame keywords they are infecting these sites.

perhaps  has a higher quality compared to what I have witnessed this week
and really do not have to develop that "awesome" OS!
since I can turn my MacBook Air off


then on again

Progress!
 
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Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. GNU is the OS behind it. A long time ago, it used to be called GNU/Linux.
Well, you can subscribe to the "it's GNU/Linux" terminology but not everybody does -- and not everybody did.
Android is not "half-Linux"; it runs on a Linux kernel, while the OS behind it is derived from Gentoo.
You are arguing that Android is not (even half) Linux by telling me it's derived from a Linux distribution?
All Linux distributions use a modified Linux kernel tailored to suit their specific distributions.
Over the years I've used Linux distributions with vanilla kernels. Made updating the kernel upon upstream release easier and/or faster.
Those that don't use either the Windows kernel, Linux kernel, Mach microkernel, or even a modified BSD Unix kernel XNU, or Darwin, such as Harmony OS, are written specifically for their own chip(s). There are a few such kernels and chips out there, supported by large, wealthy companies.
Harmony OS runs on ARM64 and not much else?

Anyhow, I'm not saying there isn't a bunch of operating systems around, just that for mobile, servers and desktop none of them matter much, at least for now. Harmony OS might become more important, we'll have to see how it plays out.
 
"HarmonyOS multi-device design guide and key feature specifications provide you with targeted design suggestions for hanging scenarios and full-end side."

umm....... what are they really suggesting?
 
Harmony OS runs on ARM64 and not much else?
Well, it runs on my watch, HarmonyOS 5.1.0.211, which is not Android. It's generally referred to as HarmonyOS NEXT. However, it hasn't arrived on my tablet yet. There’s a whole bunch of videos on YouTube about HarmonyOS NEXT.
 
What do you think about what Apple could do to bring order (internally) to the chaos that's causing their software to ship like raw cookie dough?
Firstly, I really, REALLY like raw cookie dough. By itself, in ice creams, shakes, just really enjoy it. When I bake these, I always make excess, roll that excess into bit-sized balls, freeze them, and enjoy from time to time right out of the freezer. Yeah, I know, raw egg E. coli and flour E. coli and salmonella. I’m good thanks.

But as to Apple, your question is hypothetical as Apple will do exactly nothing different. What it is doing today is viewed by them as working very well for their business so why change anything? Just do more of it. At the margin, will a bug fix or inconsistency repair sell another device, or will that slick new animoji, whatever that is? Spoiler alert: to today’s users, it’s the latter, so that’s where the effort and resources go. Whatever the state of the company, it has evolved to get here with demonstrable success in doing so. Continuing evolution will likely be more of the same with maybe a sprinkling of AI added whenever that works and is demanded by the market. “It just works” has become “It just sells.” That can be upsetting to those with expectations of before but they are in the rapidly diminishing minority.

As @crococarbs mentions, ******tification is a real thing, a real trend, and Apple is not exempt.

Ask a GenZ if they’re happy with macOS System Settings today. You’ll get a blank stare that says WTF are you talking about (Boomer)? Similarly most of the other “issues” discussed herein.
 
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If you’re a developer and have seen how easy it is to build with Swift compared to Objective C then you’d wish this thread disappear forever. It’s bizarre.

The frameworks are better than ever and you can even mix Swift with C++ to bring in more libraries such as OpenCV.
I do get your point to a degree. However, I wonder, if Swift is really so much more productive, why didn’t we see an explosion of great native software? In fact, quite the contrary.

You have software like OmniFocus, which apparently took years to be rewritten (including SwiftUI though, to be fair), only to have been released with many bugs and not really more functionality.

It took Apple several years to bring their own Journal app to the Mac. And that’s an app that is so trivial that it would have been a typical one-person project. And don’t get me started with calculator on iPad.

If the frameworks are so much better, why is the resulting software so much worse?

Where are the customers’ yachts?
 
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Modern software everywhere is getting worse in a lot of ways.

How much of the problems with macos/ios are caused by the same issues plaguing everyone: increase in scope, and increasing complexity causes issues to compound in a non-linear fashion.

the number of lines of code in modern software is so enormous its impossible for any one individual to fully comprehend.
That brings up an interesting point. You often hear that software has gotten so complex that it requires more people and more collaboration.

I actually have a hypothesis that it’s the other way round. There are too many people that need to be kept busy and the number of people and the collaboration is what causes the complexity.

When Apple released Mac OS X, they had around 8 500 employees.

When Snow Leopard was released, they had around 34 000.

Today, it’s around 166 000.

Granted, a big bunch of that is probably retail, which didn’t exist (in Apple) back then, but still.
 
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“It just works” has become “It just sells.” That can be upsetting to those with expectations of before but they are in the rapidly diminishing minority.

As @crococarbs mentions, ******tification is a real thing, a real trend, and Apple is not exempt

What's sort of crazy is that Apple does not sell operating systems. They (directly) charge nothing now for the upgrades. Back when you had to pay $129 in ~Y2K dollars, the stores and everybody else in the chain were making money. The disc and the packaging didn't cost much more than a dollar or two. Shipping was much less expensive compared to now as well.

So, why push out half-baked new OS versions every year? It has to be a marketing plan thing. Apple wants people to buy new hardware, because they make money from that (and services now) not from software, pretty much. They want to obsolete what you own so that you'll buy anew. At least they want to plant seeds of FOMO in your head so that you buy a new whatever. If that's really the case, they have to emphasize features that are highly visible to the potential customers to get them excited. Why every year? To keep your attention. Look at hundreds of other threads in this very website where people are frothing at the mouth over *needing* new emojis and other features. I'm not knocking that desire, much anyway, but you'd think that having really solid functionality would be more important. It's probably much easier to appeal to the irrational side of people's brains than to the rational. So, that's what Apple does.

I'd wager that the vast majority of customers aren't really affected by the boosts in processor performance these days. Browsing the web isn't limited by any of the Apple silicon processors. Nor are any of the other activities people use their devices for. There are exceptions, of course, but that's mostly for the kinds of people who read threads like this one and have serious desktop uses. That is, unless, Apple decides to offer up a new feature that is processing intensive, like Apple Intelligence. Then you need a faster device just to stay even with last year's device. What a coincidence.

Personally, I'm sticking with Sequoia until some compelling new reason comes along to make me want to upgrade. Apple Intelligence isn't it - it's turned off on all our Apple devices here. A new translucent UI that's harder to read (IMO) isn't it. At some point, Apple will drop support and I'll have to relook. At some point, new versions of macOS won't support this two year old Studio. I'll have to relook then, too. But, here's the thing. I'm not sure malicious hackers devote much time to finding exploits for old OS X running computers. Or, Windows 95 and even DOS 3.1 computers. There's just not a good "business case" for doing so. In some ways, the latest OS versions are the most vulnerable because they are the most commonly used. So, maybe a little obsolete isn't so bad after all. Perhaps having a separate watchdog type device attached to your home network is the way to go. Just update the information for that to prevent unwanted junk into your devices from the get go.
 
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In mobile, I miss alternative operating systems like PalmOS and Nokia's Symbian. I even heard that Windows Phone was getting better before it was killed off.

That high employee count has little to do with the number of people working on Apple's operating systems and software. It's a much smaller group, by design.
 
In mobile, I miss alternative operating systems like PalmOS and Nokia's Symbian. I even heard that Windows Phone was getting better before it was killed off.

That high employee count has little to do with the number of people working on Apple's operating systems and software. It's a much smaller group, by design.
Symbian OS was bloated garbage. Horrible from a developer aspect. Worst OS,tools I ever wrote software for.
 
What about the software programmers and maintainers who work for wages and are always on the lookout for their first opportunity to earn better pay somewhere else?
Apple is infamous for paying less than a lot of their competitors. And you get what you pay for
 
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Jobs used to be about the user experience. Since his passing, it seems like the user experience has taken a backseat to rushed and broken features, with nary a thought on how it affects the users day to day interactions with the device/interface. In my experience, features and functions that "Just worked" as Apple had been know for, has turned to "It might work". Safari has turned into a steaming pile of bits, Photos doesn't work as well as iPhoto, Music doesn't work as well as iTunes, etc ad nauseum. Siri is well, mostly useless.. and Apple Intelligence isn't.

Thankfully the hardware is still top notch (except for some dumb design decisions like the power button on the bottom of the Mac Mini) for the most part. Apple Silicon is amazing.
 
Thankfully the hardware is still top notch (except for some dumb design decisions like the power button on the bottom of the Mac Mini) for the most part. Apple Silicon is amazing.
I'm not so sure about MacBook's shiny screens; they can make your eyes ache. You should check devices with PaperMatte screens. Yes, even with the power button on the bottom, the Mac mini is excellent. It also allows you to choose a matte screen monitor.
 
I'm not so sure about MacBook's shiny screens; they can make your eyes ache. You should check devices with PaperMatte screens. Yes, even with the power button on the bottom, the Mac mini is excellent. It also allows you to choose a matte screen monitor.

Oddly, I've never had a negative experience with glare on my MBP.

I agree about the Mini, it's awesome for it's price and size. I'm eagerly waiting for the M5 Ultra Mac Studio myself.
 
"The tech industry is desperately seeking the next "iPhone" moment."

only too true, think of the stock run, the profits. AI seems overhyped, but no company can afford to be left behind in case it's the 'golden product'. be cynical but weary, something good may come out of this or maybe notl I mean weary not wary in the sense grow tired of the hype and enjoy what progress has been made
I mean you can’t have the ‘iphone moment’ in design cause every phone is basically a rectangle but if you want to have the next ‘iphone moment’ in terms of hardware then I would go to Andriod. There is so much unique things there like Liquid cooling in the RM11 pro and snapdragon chips which compete with Apple on another level.
 
It’s much much more simple.
  1. Elevation of a non-designer to CEO
  2. Shift to services as the principal strategy for driving revenue growth and YOY stability
Neither of those things put the experience as the #1 priority. As negative as might be Jobs’ micromanagement of the product portfolio at every stage, it was still design-led. Design-led means quality focus.
 
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