New 13-inch MacBook to be Bumped to 2.4GHz, NVIDIA 320M

[KnightWRX]

It doesn't. As I've stated (or at least strongly eluded to) before- if you're manufacturing comparable pieces out of aluminum and plastic, the plastic one is going to cost you less.

Yes, you've alluded to it. You don't seem to be quite clear on the concept of "BS, bring proof to backup your statements".

Aluminum cans, Plastic bottles. Different process, marginal cost differences.

And a flow jet can shape hard aluminum. Do you know what a flow jet is ? You don't make "aluminum malleable". It's actually pretty soft at room temperature as far as metals go and the flow jet can easily cut pieces without having to warm them up first. Using water.

So far, all you've come up with is that the processes are different. We know, no one argued they were the same. You have yet to back up your disputed claim of costs though beyond pure conjecture.

And again, at the volume of material/units made, we're talking cents. Not 150$.

 

[snberk103]

There is a another possible scenario. If Apple is trying to pinpoint the source of the leaks, one way to do that is to put several versions of something into the pipe and see which version is leaked. You can do that with products (but that can get expensive if you are trying to cover a lot of ground) or you can do it with packaging.

It would be trivial for Apple to get their official box maker to make small runs of several different "official" products. All they need to do is change something trivial on the box, like a product number or a tech spec, for each version. Ship the various versions of the boxes to different assembly plants, and wait to see which one gets splashed across the web.

Governments will often/sometimes deliberately include different trivial spelling errors in each copy of a delicate document (each copy has a unique combination of errors - like a serial number). If a document is leaked to the press they can track it back to the owner by it's combination of spelling errors.

Apple could end up trying the same thing with these leaks.

Just idle speculation.

 

[aiqw9182]

;-) I didn't know they use waterjets to cut off the inside of those cans.

Show me where you mentioned waterjets in your previous post. I'd love to know.

 

[Pentad]

Wow, at this rate I'm hoping for a leak of 10.7 alpha/very early beta...

 

[iJon]

This is so strange will all these leaks coming from Vietnam.

I remember when I was there many of the merchants told me they have many fake goods come over the border from China. That would be my first reasonable guess as to where the iPhone and MacBook came from.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

Why 2,4 Ghz? It again makes the difference between Pro and non Pro very small.

 

[iZac]

Excuse the dirty photoshopping ...

 

[i.mac]

Obviously there is a big hole in apple security via Vietnam. Will not last long...

 

[Cromulent]

Bring production back to the US and they might have better luck keeping leaks under control!

That's a joke right?

 

[KnightWRX]

Why 2,4 Ghz? It again makes the difference between Pro and non Pro very small.

It needs to be small in order for it to sell. You have a 150$ price difference right now. With just the fact that you get FW800, the illuminated keyboard and more RAM, you have plenty to justify that 150$ right now. If you threw a CPU upgrade, there would be no reason not to pony up that 150$.

You have to make the 150$ hard to justify in order for people to get the compromise. If all you got was 2 GB ram and aluminium case for 150$, I'd think about it long and hard. Right now, even with these specs, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

 

[johnqh]

You were unsure of how Apple does their manufacturing process by saying probably, you have yet to show any FACTUAL information on how the aluminum unibody costs more to manufacture than the polycarbonite unibody.

Again, you have yet to show any factual evidence that manufacturing aluminum costs more than polycarbonite plastic. It's just you guessing that it costs less.

The video is evidence enough.

1. The aluminum body requires high tech robotic machines with moving parts. The machines are costly themselves, and require maintenance and testing due to the moving parts. Plastic body requires a mold with no moving parts. The mold itself is very cheap to make.

2. It takes much longer to make an aluminum body. If you add up all the steps, it takes several minutes for each. A plastic body takes seconds to make. That means to produce the same number of bodies, you need more production lines, which costs more in rent, in manufacturing labor, and in maintenance (see #1 above)

3. Aluminum is heavy. Plastic is light. The freight costs more for aluminum.

4. Given the same volume of aluminum and plastic, you can make more bodies from plastic because it uses mold. Nothing is wasted. Most of the raw aluminum block is cut off. So, you make probably 10% as many bodies as plastic.

5. Recycled aluminum must be collected and sent back to the supplier to melt into aluminum blocks again. So, 80% to 90% of the original material is sent back - double freight cost.

Some people will say "how about the cans, or the older Al Macbook Pro? Those are pressed, so none of the above applies to pressed metal parts, except #3.

So, just watching the video is enough for me to know that is a quite expensive process.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Aluminum cost and trends:
http://www.infomine.com/investment/historicalcharts/showcharts.asp?c=aluminum

The biggest cost would be smelting and mining. Buying in large quantities and using medium grade aluminum would yield a negligible cost difference vs petroleum based polycarbonates.

 

[KnightWRX]

The video is evidence enough.

The video is evidence the process is different, not more expensive.

Melting and molding plastic requires machinery also, maintenance for said machinery and plenty of power to keep those high temps.

 

[apttap]

The factory next door in China.

Volume people. Apple isn't using some machine shop around the corner that can pump out 1 case per 12 hours.

Depending on the type of plastic used, raw materials could potentially cost the same at one extreme, at the other end plastic could be 1/2 as much.

Fact: The bottom of the plastic macbook is actually rubber coated aluminum.

Fact: It is about volume, and it's not as simple as more volume = cheaper to produce.

For production runs under 40,000 units, machining is generally cheaper

So you can probably surmise that for a run > 40,000 machining is more expensive.

You really cant group a unibody laptop into that category though, 18 milling operations change that block of aluminum into a laptop case. That's 18 machines that need to be maintained.

That doesn't change depending on what side of the world the factory is on.

MIM vs. Machining

Machining vs Molding

On a side note, the plastic 13" is actually heavier than the MBP 13" by .2 lbs

 

[lukehaze]

is it me or does this look rather chunky? and i thought the macbook is marketed as macbook pros now?

sorry if you guys have already discussed this, i am a kinda noob at this.

 

[rdlink]

Aluminum cans

Wow. All of these personal and mean spirited attacks over my simple statement on aluminum vs plastic.

I wasn't referring to actual manufacturing costs of the two materials when I said that I would assign more value to the aluminum. I was referring to the increased value I personally place on the aluminum. To be honest, it didn't occur to me that anyone would rather have the plastic. Clearly, I misjudged others' feelings on the subject.

One note, after giving it some more thought, I would say that I wouldn't, in fact put a $50 premium on the aluminum. If the specs were otherwise identical, and I were already spending $1000 on a notebook, I would probably pay an extra $100 for aluminum without even giving it a thought. That's what I would pay for it. Not saying you have to agree.

But then again, the specs aren't identical, are they? Between more memory, (remember that upgrading the macbook would cause you to buy 4 MB, not just the 2MB difference) the illuminated keyboard, the battery, the 800 firewire port and the SD card slot, I don't know why you wouldn't pay the extra for the MBP, unless you specifically DON'T want aluminum.

 

[aiqw9182]

The video is evidence enough.

1. The aluminum body requires high tech robotic machines with moving parts. The machines are costly themselves, and require maintenance and testing due to the moving parts. Plastic body requires a mold with no moving parts. The mold itself is very cheap to make.

2. It takes much longer to make an aluminum body. If you add up all the steps, it takes several minutes for each. A plastic body takes seconds to make. That means to produce the same number of bodies, you need more production lines, which costs more in rent, in manufacturing labor, and in maintenance (see #1 above)

3. Aluminum is heavy. Plastic is light. The freight costs more for aluminum.

4. Given the same volume of aluminum and plastic, you can make more bodies from plastic because it uses mold. Nothing is wasted. Most of the raw aluminum block is cut off. So, you make probably 10% as many bodies as plastic.

5. Recycled aluminum must be collected and sent back to the supplier to melt into aluminum blocks again. So, 80% to 90% of the original material is sent back - double freight cost.

Some people will say "how about the cans, or the older Al Macbook Pro? Those are pressed, so none of the above applies to pressed metal parts, except #3.

So, just watching the video is enough for me to know that is a quite expensive process.

Once again, you are just guessing and providing no factual evidence that in the end the manufacturing process of the polycarbonite MacBook costs less to make than the 13" aluminum MacBook Pro.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

The video is evidence enough.

1. The aluminum body requires high tech robotic machines with moving parts. The machines are costly themselves, and require maintenance and testing due to the moving parts. Plastic body requires a mold with no moving parts. The mold itself is very cheap to make.

3. Aluminum is heavy. Plastic is light. The freight costs more for aluminum.

4. Given the same volume of aluminum and plastic, you can make more bodies from plastic because it uses mold. Nothing is wasted. Most of the raw aluminum block is cut off. So, you make probably 10% as many bodies as plastic.

"High Tech Robotic Machines" maybe in 1960. Water Jets aren't that high tech. Most of them run off antiquated command line based systems built in the late 80's. Apple could buy a Water Jet, set the template, and pump out aluminum bodies like nothing (using the excess aluminum to recycle and be "greener". But of course a company like Apple would never want to invest in such "High Tech Robotic Machines" to make the best products in the world. No they would rather use plastic molds (like PC manufacturers do) and put an Apple price tag on them.

Aluminum is heavy??? Thats new to me and the aerospace industry.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Fact: It is about volume, and it's not as simple as more volume = cheaper to produce.

For production runs under 40,000 units, machining is generally cheaper

So you can probably surmise that for a run > 40,000 machining is more expensive.

At the same time though Apple already has a 13" model they produce. Like cars why not save money by utilizing the same platform across different models (IE Toyota with the ZZX Corolla, Celica, Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, MR2 Spyder).

 

[azentropy]

Aaaaack! No matte display!

What a shame. Otherwise, a superb notebook.

At least it isn't GLASS covered! I love the 13" MBP I purchased a couple of weeks ago, but I will never purchase another system with a GLASS covered display. I thought glossy was bad, but the GLASS takes it to a new level of annoyance.

 

[johnqh]

"High Tech Robotic Machines" maybe in 1960. Water Jets aren't that high tech. Most of them run off antiquated command line based systems built in the late 80's. Apple could buy a Water Jet, set the template, and pump out aluminum bodies like nothing (using the excess aluminum to recycle and be "greener". But of course a company like Apple would never want to invest in such "High Tech Robotic Machines" to make the best products in the world. No they would rather use plastic molds (like PC manufacturers do) and put an Apple price tag on them.

Aluminum is heavy??? Thats new to me and the aerospace industry.

Heavier than plastic.

And 80's machines? I can go to Canton and make a piece of plastic toy for under 10 cents. If you can find someone to do a unibody Aluminum piece for under 50 cents (old tech, after all, right?), please let me know. I am dead serious.

If anyone think he can make aluminum piece with water jets for the same cost as plastic (or even within 10x cost), please start it as a business. You will make millions easily. Again, I am dead serious. I would put my own money into such venture.

 

[KnightWRX]

Aluminum is heavy??? Thats new to me and the aerospace industry.

Yes, aluminum is very heavy. Probably the heaviest thing on earth. Hence why the MBP is lighter than the MB.

 

[AndyMulhearn]

Did anyone else notice the different magsafe power cable?

Yep, I did. it looked like an Air supply (no pun intended). I wonder if they're standardising on a power supply that can run all of their laptop products as a means of cost cutting?

 

[johnqh]

By the way, having said all of that (al costs more), I don't even like al body. It is cold to the wrist, especially in winter.

 

[mcmlxix]

is it me or does this look rather chunky? and i thought the macbook is marketed as macbook pros now?

sorry if you guys have already discussed this, i am a kinda noob at this.

13" white polycarbonate = macBook
13" aluminum + firewire, SSD card slot, etc = macBook pro