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New G4 iBooks
- Thread starter MacsRgr8
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Re: iBook == Consumer =/ CHEAP!
-Richard
Not necessarily. Video cards, processors, et cetera - just because they're "better" doesn't mean that they're "more expensive". In fact, especially with things like RAM, more recent (but not brand new) is often cheaper, just like the G5 costs Apple less to buy than the G4.
-Richard
Re: Is the 12" fast enough
For what you want to do, a 400Mhz second hand iMac will be more then suffecient! Browsing the web, and checking email, heck I still do that on my 10 year old Performa. Browsing is very slow though, as that 68LC040 just can't render fast enough. But for email its more then adequate
For what you want to do, a 400Mhz second hand iMac will be more then suffecient! Browsing the web, and checking email, heck I still do that on my 10 year old Performa. Browsing is very slow though, as that 68LC040 just can't render fast enough. But for email its more then adequate
Re: A few remarks
-Richard
Not really - actually XP home and professional are almost identical (they are identical for all important purposes unless you're a mid-sized or larger business). As for the software - some you win, some you lose. If you added "MS Office" to the mix, the PCs would get it much cheaper. How about a progressive-scan DVD player? $10 for the PC add-in to WMP, N/A for the mac. Expose? Not available for the PC. The Windows image stuff isn't iPhoto, but iPhoto gets spanked by most $100 products that would fill in the gap... some you win, some you lose. Heck, add in the 125dpi screens available (as free options) on most PC laptops and the Macs can't match them. So the previous comparisons are about as reasonable as you're going to be able to get, I'm afraid.
-Richard
Re: Panther
This'll probably get lost in the noise, and maybe someone else already answered but I didn't check all 10 pages of comments so far...
Your software restore disc(s) that come with the iBook will probably NOT install Panther on your tower. The OS installer on the software restore discs that come with new hardware is not the same as the general installer that comes with the retail boxed OS. I bought an iBook a year ago with Jaguar preloaded. I had also already bought Jaguar for my G4 tower but hadn't bothered installing it yet. Since I was reinstalling to customize, I figured I might as well do both machines at once, and why not from the same disc since both were legally paid up? I stuck the iBook's Jaguar disc into the G4 and got a message like "This software cannot be installed on this computer." So apparently it was checking to be sure it was running on an iBook before continuing.
Maybe it'll be that way again, maybe not. And either way, the only "legal" way to do it is to pay for Panther for any existing machine(s) too... but let's not get into a big piracy discussion this time.
This'll probably get lost in the noise, and maybe someone else already answered but I didn't check all 10 pages of comments so far...
Your software restore disc(s) that come with the iBook will probably NOT install Panther on your tower. The OS installer on the software restore discs that come with new hardware is not the same as the general installer that comes with the retail boxed OS. I bought an iBook a year ago with Jaguar preloaded. I had also already bought Jaguar for my G4 tower but hadn't bothered installing it yet. Since I was reinstalling to customize, I figured I might as well do both machines at once, and why not from the same disc since both were legally paid up? I stuck the iBook's Jaguar disc into the G4 and got a message like "This software cannot be installed on this computer." So apparently it was checking to be sure it was running on an iBook before continuing.
Maybe it'll be that way again, maybe not. And either way, the only "legal" way to do it is to pay for Panther for any existing machine(s) too... but let's not get into a big piracy discussion this time.
Re: Re: Re: max memory?
True. But 1GB = 1024
so 1024 +128 = 1152 which is over 1150 so rounds up to 1200. That's the only way I can figure out. Honestly, I don't know where Apple got 1.2 from.
BTW, anyone know when I move up from "newbie"?
True. But 1GB = 1024
so 1024 +128 = 1152 which is over 1150 so rounds up to 1200. That's the only way I can figure out. Honestly, I don't know where Apple got 1.2 from.
BTW, anyone know when I move up from "newbie"?
Re: iBook == Consumer =/ CHEAP!
Would they sell enough more to offset the lost of profit per unit? If there was a $200 iPod, lots of people who bought $400 iPods would buy the $200 instead. That's lost money, man.
By the way, if it was a G3+Altivec from IBM, don't you think IBM would have announced such a chip beforehand? No. They didn't. Maybe it's a G3 without Altivec? Then it's illegal to call it a G4. Truth in advertising.
Would they sell enough more to offset the lost of profit per unit? If there was a $200 iPod, lots of people who bought $400 iPods would buy the $200 instead. That's lost money, man.
By the way, if it was a G3+Altivec from IBM, don't you think IBM would have announced such a chip beforehand? No. They didn't. Maybe it's a G3 without Altivec? Then it's illegal to call it a G4. Truth in advertising.
Re: Re: iBook == Consumer =/ CHEAP!
Exactly. I just posted about this on another forum, but it bears repeating. The value to the consumer may be less than the cost for Apple to produce the thing. Just because the market now values a G3 iBook at around $700 (or less) doesn't mean that it costs less than that to make. It may well cost Apple $800 to build one. Obviously they don't want to lose money per sale just to gain marketshare, so they can't sell older/slower/worse products at lower prices like that! Apple products tend to have a minimum quality standard, and to meet that, there's a minimum cost of production, regardless of whether the technology is 2 years old and slow.
It's exactly the same thing with the iPod. People scream that they should continue selling 5 GB iPods but for $100-200. If Apple could make them and still turn a profit at that price point, I'm sure they would do it in a heartbeat. But just using a lower capacity hard drive doesn't magically cause the whole thing to cost less to build. I'll bet the iPod costs at least $200 to manufacture with those electronics in that form factor, with any capacity hard drive of that physical size -- even half a gig. There's a cost barrier there, and it's higher than the relative value to the market, so that product simply can't sell for profit. It will never exist.
So why can the PC manufacturers sell $500 and under PCs? One, because of economies of scale - a 95+% PC market affords them this luxury versus Apple. And two, because of Apple's minimum quality standards as I mentioned before. Apple as a company simply isn't interested in making a $500 piece of crap computer that sucks just to gain marketshare. So while I'm sure they'd love to offer a quality lower end computer at sub $500 prices and maintain profitability, it simply can't be done.
Exactly. I just posted about this on another forum, but it bears repeating. The value to the consumer may be less than the cost for Apple to produce the thing. Just because the market now values a G3 iBook at around $700 (or less) doesn't mean that it costs less than that to make. It may well cost Apple $800 to build one. Obviously they don't want to lose money per sale just to gain marketshare, so they can't sell older/slower/worse products at lower prices like that! Apple products tend to have a minimum quality standard, and to meet that, there's a minimum cost of production, regardless of whether the technology is 2 years old and slow.
It's exactly the same thing with the iPod. People scream that they should continue selling 5 GB iPods but for $100-200. If Apple could make them and still turn a profit at that price point, I'm sure they would do it in a heartbeat. But just using a lower capacity hard drive doesn't magically cause the whole thing to cost less to build. I'll bet the iPod costs at least $200 to manufacture with those electronics in that form factor, with any capacity hard drive of that physical size -- even half a gig. There's a cost barrier there, and it's higher than the relative value to the market, so that product simply can't sell for profit. It will never exist.
So why can the PC manufacturers sell $500 and under PCs? One, because of economies of scale - a 95+% PC market affords them this luxury versus Apple. And two, because of Apple's minimum quality standards as I mentioned before. Apple as a company simply isn't interested in making a $500 piece of crap computer that sucks just to gain marketshare. So while I'm sure they'd love to offer a quality lower end computer at sub $500 prices and maintain profitability, it simply can't be done.
Hey, I'm typing this on a 300Mhz Blueberry iBook w/320Megs of Ram running 10.2.8.which works like a champ and looks as good as the day I unpacked it. I will be upgrading any day, but it's not because this isn't a great computer. Others have better computers but this one has served me well and will continue to serve when I get my next laptop. That is what I appreciate about Apple: QUALITY and the fact that I can usuaully get a computer that's ahead of the pack for a price I can afford that will last me many years.
wow! i was really surprised to see Apple bring out new iBooks. i guess they had to come, but i just didn't expect it.
nice to see that they have a slot loading drive as well.
can't wait for Kodwarisan to get their hands on one...
i was really surprised to see Apple bring out new iBooks. i guess they had to come, but i just didn't expect it.nice to see that they have a slot loading drive as well.
can't wait for Kodwarisan to get their hands on one...
Re: max memory?
No, it does not mean support for 1GB SO-DIMMs.
It says "One open SO-DIMM slot", in addition to the on-board RAM and the one slot that is filled with some amount of memory in each shipped configuration.
This means that you would be able to (today) go out and buy a 512MB memory stick and add that to your iBook for a total of 1.125GB of RAM.
Their math doesn't add up, though, unless the on-board RAM can also be upped to 256MB through minor surgery. You can't get 1.25GB of RAM if you start off with one unmatched 128MB chunk of memory ...
No, it does not mean support for 1GB SO-DIMMs.
It says "One open SO-DIMM slot", in addition to the on-board RAM and the one slot that is filled with some amount of memory in each shipped configuration.
This means that you would be able to (today) go out and buy a 512MB memory stick and add that to your iBook for a total of 1.125GB of RAM.
Their math doesn't add up, though, unless the on-board RAM can also be upped to 256MB through minor surgery. You can't get 1.25GB of RAM if you start off with one unmatched 128MB chunk of memory ...
Re: PB sales
When I edit video I need screen real-estate. Having the laptop screen for some windows, and an external display for the rest, would be great. I take it PowerBooks do this but iBooks don't?
Thanks... btw what do I look for in the Specs that tells me if a machine can do this? (incl. iMacs etc)
What is "better external display capabilities". I've never really looked into this - so am I understanding right that I could use an external display separately to my laptop display (on the PowerBook ONLY) - ie making my desktop larger.
When I edit video I need screen real-estate. Having the laptop screen for some windows, and an external display for the rest, would be great. I take it PowerBooks do this but iBooks don't?
Thanks... btw what do I look for in the Specs that tells me if a machine can do this? (incl. iMacs etc)
Re: Re: Re: iBook == Consumer =/ CHEAP!
Everywhere. Almost everything written about the G4 since 1999 in print and on the web, and in Apple's advertising, says the G4 is a PowerPC processor with Velocity Engine. Not to mention Motorola's use of the term G4.
Everywhere. Almost everything written about the G4 since 1999 in print and on the web, and in Apple's advertising, says the G4 is a PowerPC processor with Velocity Engine. Not to mention Motorola's use of the term G4.
Yeeeeehaww!
See my sig: I had purchased a PB 12" with AirportExtreme for $1498 with edu.
Fortunately, I was able to change that order for a new 12" iBook with maxed out RAM and a whopping 60GB drive for only $1345!!!
I'm getting a computer that more closely suits my needs (I never use external monitors and 640MB memory is more than I need), and for less money!
I'm freakin psyched! I'll probably have to wait a couple more weeks for the new iBook (especially since it's BTO), but it's well worth it.
P.S. Does anyone know how soon these babies are shipping?
Edit: OK, I see it says it will ship in 3-5 days.
FYI, I noticed that Edu users can order the 12" with CD-ROM drive (instead of combo) for only $949. If I'm not mistaken, that's the same price that the low-end iBook was going for before, since there was only a $50 Edu discount on the iBook. So Edu users have nothing to complain about: they're getting a much better computer for $949 than they did previously, and they're getting a G4 12" combo drive model for $200 less than the previous G3 combo drive model. Hopefully a lot more students will consider iBooks after this upgrade.
See my sig: I had purchased a PB 12" with AirportExtreme for $1498 with edu.
Fortunately, I was able to change that order for a new 12" iBook with maxed out RAM and a whopping 60GB drive for only $1345!!!
I'm getting a computer that more closely suits my needs (I never use external monitors and 640MB memory is more than I need), and for less money!
I'm freakin psyched! I'll probably have to wait a couple more weeks for the new iBook (especially since it's BTO), but it's well worth it.
P.S. Does anyone know how soon these babies are shipping?
Edit: OK, I see it says it will ship in 3-5 days.
FYI, I noticed that Edu users can order the 12" with CD-ROM drive (instead of combo) for only $949. If I'm not mistaken, that's the same price that the low-end iBook was going for before, since there was only a $50 Edu discount on the iBook. So Edu users have nothing to complain about: they're getting a much better computer for $949 than they did previously, and they're getting a G4 12" combo drive model for $200 less than the previous G3 combo drive model. Hopefully a lot more students will consider iBooks after this upgrade.
Re: still underpowered
There are three primary concerns with a smaller form factor:
1) Physical space. Less room outside == less room inside. Things like a G4 supporting L3 cache and the L3 cache itself both take up internal space.
2) Heat dissipation. Less room inside also == less air moving around with an acceptable level of noise. It is significantly harder to cool a CPU with 0.1" of space than it is with 1" of space.
3) Usability: Durability, noise, comfort, etc. You can save some internal space by making the "shell" thinner, but then you make your product more fragile. You can skimp on shock absorbing structures, but then any drop (more likely to happen to a small object than a larger one, in general) kills it. You can crank the fans up to pump 300MPH winds through your laptop, but I don't think your non-deaf users would appreciate it.
Quite frankly, if you've looked inside a 12" laptop from Apple you should be astounded at how well they've been put together. No space is wasted.
That means, of course, that it will take a significant effort to put in a larger CPU or a larger battery or a massively heat-generating GPU or a L3 cache or whatever. And, no, you're offer of an extra thousand bucks just won't pay for that kind of engineering effort.
Please tell: who in the computer industry is putting together a laptop like you described? I can't see anyone doing it. There is a reason ...
There are three primary concerns with a smaller form factor:
1) Physical space. Less room outside == less room inside. Things like a G4 supporting L3 cache and the L3 cache itself both take up internal space.
2) Heat dissipation. Less room inside also == less air moving around with an acceptable level of noise. It is significantly harder to cool a CPU with 0.1" of space than it is with 1" of space.
3) Usability: Durability, noise, comfort, etc. You can save some internal space by making the "shell" thinner, but then you make your product more fragile. You can skimp on shock absorbing structures, but then any drop (more likely to happen to a small object than a larger one, in general) kills it. You can crank the fans up to pump 300MPH winds through your laptop, but I don't think your non-deaf users would appreciate it.
Quite frankly, if you've looked inside a 12" laptop from Apple you should be astounded at how well they've been put together. No space is wasted.
That means, of course, that it will take a significant effort to put in a larger CPU or a larger battery or a massively heat-generating GPU or a L3 cache or whatever. And, no, you're offer of an extra thousand bucks just won't pay for that kind of engineering effort.
Please tell: who in the computer industry is putting together a laptop like you described? I can't see anyone doing it. There is a reason ...