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Originally posted by Ensoniq
Regardless of the word "AltiVec" missing from Apple's tech pages, this is an iBook G4 and has AltiVec. It's the Motorola processor...get over it. :)

I sure hope that it is indeed a G4 with Altivec as opposed to a G4 without Altivec, but does anyone have any actually evidence to support that assumption? I want to believe that Apple would not label it as a G4 without including Altivec, but it just seems odd that they make absolutely no mention of such a major selling point.

Found the 7445 on Motorola's website. Is this the processor that these iBooks are using?
 
i think these things are great, and i can understand where some people might be annoyed with the price/performance compaired to the 12 powerbook. but this thing is great for me. i dont want to shell out $1700 right now. 1200 is just right and thats how much i would be spending for the 12ibookG4 with 640Megs of Ram. i am coming from a 500Mhz G3 ibook though, so this to me will be a huge upgrade. its all perspective, and from mine its a great deal. i like it to be small, i dont need all the power in the world, but and this will be a good step up from what i have right now. good job Apple.
 
Re: Re: iBook envy!

Originally posted by jxyama
here's one benchmark for ya.

at a saving of (say) 1 second per operation per application, how long will it be before the new G4 iBook will make up the 2+ months you've had your G3 iBook?

just trying to make you feel better... there's no benchmarking for the time you've already spent working/playing with your current machine...

:)

THANKS! That's what I needed to hear! Maybe it's just seperation anxiety. I had to ship my iBook back to Apple yesterday - "backlight cuts out on screen movement"
 
Backlight Fix

jcshas - I hear you man. I just got back my iBook from such a replacement. Everytime I budged it the screen would go black! Fortunately , the apple fix worked. Still, I hope they have these issues worked out in the new machines. Backlight failure makes a laptop super useless and this was only 5 months after buying it.
 
Re: Moto G4 / IBM G3?

Originally posted by pb&j
Are these new iBooks housing Moto's G4? or are they a new G3 relabeled? If they are in fact Moto's, then what happened to the talk of the G3 sticking around for a 'long time'??? Will someone please respond to this and straighten me out on whether or not the G3 is truly dead. :confused:

If I had a million dollars to bet, I would bet these are Motorola G4 processors. The IBM G3 is dead.
 
Personally i think the ATI card should be in the PB's while the Geforce FX should be in the iB's. Looking at the link somebody earlier posted, the ATI card beats the FX at everything...so it makes sense to put it in the 12"PB.
 
Today almost means the end of Mac OS 9 also! Now, if I am not mistaken, the Power Mac G4 is the only computer still being sold that boots into Mac OS 9. And that's only being sold as a legacy machine. Even the eMac page has a footnote at the bottom saying that Mac OS 9 can only be accessed from classic mode. Mac OS X is finally here for good.

(Note: I have never used Mac OS 9)
 
I've got a Graphite DVSE iMac, but I want to add a portable to my Apple stable.

I'm very excited about the new iBook releases, but I've a PowerBook vs. iBook question.

I know the iBook doesn't have a SuperDrive, and I've read that you can't use iDVD without it. But are there new patches for iDVD3 that would allow me to edit with iDVD and burn with a 3rd party burner?

I was really considering the 15" Powerbook with a Superdrive (i think the 12" screen is just too small). I want to be able to burn DVDs of home movies. Maybe not today, but in a year or two. But the $1000 difference between 15"pb and new 14"ib could buy a lot of other stuff (like a 3rd party burner).

Somebody offer some advice to this notebook newbie,

Brian

p.s.
I'll be using it mostly for Internet/word/excel/iTunes, but I'd also like to do some iMovie and iPhoto editing. I'll save the old iMac for the occasional Photoshop stuff.
 
the ATi 9200 is an r250 core I think, not the r300 or r350.

If that's the case, it's really just an ATi 7500/8500 with a new name. This puts it under the performance level of the FX5200. that's pretty poor compared the the midlevel chips like the FX5600 and ATi 9600, and well under the performance of the top end chips in the FX5900 and ATi 9800.
 
info

Originally posted by memphismac
I've got a Graphite DVSE iMac, but I want to add a portable to my Apple stable.

I'm very excited about the new iBook releases, but I've a PowerBook vs. iBook question.

I know the iBook doesn't have a SuperDrive, and I've read that you can't use iDVD without it. But are there new patches for iDVD3 that would allow me to edit with iDVD and burn with a 3rd party burner?


there are patches/hack to use iDVD with computer not harboring, neither DVD burner, neither Altivec (indeed the last iDVD requires altivec-enable processor, well in theory)
 
Re: hmmm

Interesting question agian. It shuld be noted that they are specifing that the cache runs at full processor speed. It was my understanding that on the 7455 it ran at half speed. I have to wonder it these are the 7457 with half the cache disabled. Could it be that like Intel, Motorola disables part of the cache on under performing 7457 so that marginal processors can be used elsewhere? Anybody got the real scoop on the 7455's cache speed?

A full speed cache could be significant when it comes to performance of these machnes.

One thing I did notice it that they did not rev the motherboard. That extra 128mG is instaled in the expansion slot. Pretty sleazy if you ask me. On the otherhand the spec does indicate expansion capability to 1.2 GB of RAM, so maybe things aren't that bad.

Unfortunately my initial excitement has dwindled a bit. It does not appear that these are really the type of upgrades that Apple can be proud of. It looks like an attempt to grab a bit of the hoiday market with the G4 brand. Apparenlty the motherboard is not that much more advanced than the one on the machines this model replaces. I'm begining to see these as a very short term release.

Thanks
Dave



Originally posted by theRebel
Any chance that this is a 750GX being called a G4 rather than a 7455?

I do not see any mention of Altivec on any of the iBook related pages.

The battery life of the new iBooks is quoted at 6 hours. How could they be getting 6 hours out of the 7455?
 
A few opinions of my own:

* Yes of course it has Altivec. Stop this silly speculation. All G4s have altivec. This is definitional for the G4 brand.

* It seems clear this G4 is from Motorola like all before it...

* The G3 as we know it is dead. However, G3/G4 and G5 are brands not actual chips. IBM and Motorola don't own the brandnames and use the actual chipnames for the most part. This means that an advanced IBM-made G3 with Altivec could absolutely be sold as a "G4" in the future. It is up to Apple. A G4 is essentially a G3 with altivec afterall; scalar performance is virtually identical at the same clockspeed. An altivec-enhanced G3 should be extremely comparable in performance to a G4, so the branding even makes sense.

* 800Mhz G4 v. 900Mhz G3: Before Quartz Extreme, Apple accelerated some graphic Quartz elements with altivec. A G4 is just plain snappier than G3 running OS X at the same clockspeed. Benchmarks would not show this, but users will feel it. A G3 is a poor CPU for MacOS X.

Plus, a G4 has much better memory bandwidth than a G3, which affects overall system performance even when the system bus speed is held constant.

Better memory bandwidth + Quartz optimization: I doubt a single user will miss that extra 100Mhz of G3 in normal usage, and will be glad they have it when running Altivec-enhanced apps. Hence, that 11% difference in clockspeed will not translate to a 11% drop in perceived performance.
 
I can't tell if the 2-tone is silver or grey, but either way I really like how the look has changed.

* NO MORE CHEESY CLEAR KEYS (they match the inside now)

* Slot-load drive

And I always did like the white case. This will make my laptop decision all the harder...

Lucky edu buyers can get a G4 with 256 RAM, 32 VRAM, and Bluetooth for $1023! Or upgrade to Combo drive, 40 HD, and 640 RAM for $1166!

(It's ALWAYS cheapest to get the minimum RAM in an iBook and buy 512 3rd-party for ~$100. Just hang on to the leftover 128 as a spare.)

As for the 14" 1024x768... it's perfect for people who don't like staring at tiny pixels. I'm surprised how popular that model is--but if demand is there, then Apple should keep the model.
 
Re: hmmm

Originally posted by theRebel
Any chance that this is a 750GX being called a G4 rather than a 7455?

I do not see any mention of Altivec on any of the iBook related pages.

The battery life of the new iBooks is quoted at 6 hours. How could they be getting 6 hours out of the 7455?

Interesting. Although, there's no mention of Altivec on the AlBook pages, either.

EDIT: Err... uh.. actually, Apple calls it the "Velocity Engine" and it's mentioned on the first page of the PB site. But not at all on the iBook site.
 
Good idea.....

This is great news for students!

No matter how much certain people complain about there not being enough L2 cache and no L3 cache, this is regardless a great thing for students.

Most students I know are on a limited budget, so a simple computer for word processing, web-surfing, listening to/downloading music, and chatting is all we really need.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade in my Rev. A 12" PowerBook for anything, I absolutly love this machine, but the new iBook G4's are great news for those on a limited budget. The only reason I got my PowerBook was 1) I shopped around, and 2) I had a savings account :).

iBook G4's for education start at $949. that is amazing. You can get a speedy 14" iBook for only $1399 with the educational discount.....for those who want "speed", I'd recommend getting the 933Mhz model (with the educational discount-$1199), upgrading the RAM to 640MB, and getting AirPort Extreme.

This was smart of Apple.
Great job! :D:D:D:D:D
 
Yep many do play down the G4. The question that is running through my mind is just what G4 is in these new machines. It was my understanding that only the most recent G4 rev's have a L2 cache running at processor speed. This is what Apple is advertising. The potential is for higher performance form these machnes than some may expect. It si a shame that with all of the technical information posted Apple couldn't have been clearer about just what is in the machine.

Thanks
Dave




Originally posted by johnnyjibbs
A lot of people seem to be jumping the gun with this. I think Apple has got it right.

At first sight, I was a little worried that my new PB 12" was suddenly not as good anymore. But then I looked some more.

First off, if the rev A PB 12" 867 was apparently slower than the 900 G3 iBook on non-altivec tasks, then this new iBook 800 will be slower because it uses exactly the same processor as the old PowerBook. They probably capped it at 800MHz because of the heat problem, especially without a metal case to dissapte the heat. So the new iBook 800 is still worse performance-wise than the rev A PowerBook.

Meanwhile, the 14" is bigger so can cope with the increased heat. They can afford to increase its speed also because it is a different market to the 12". If you're thinking, where is the more powerful 12" iBook, I'll say this: I'm typing on one right now (i.e. the 12" PowerBook). A more powerful 12" iBook would cannibalise 12" PB sales, hence it is only the entry-level model now.

What is best is that these iBooks now have far more aggressive pricing, certainly in the UK, - you get a hell of a lot for £849 (base model).

Will PowerBooks go G5 soon? I probably think not, and I'm not just saying that in the hope that they don't. These iBooks are not that close to the PowerBooks in performance, even the 14"PB 1 GHz vs the 12" PB. Therefore there is no need for the PBs to jump to G5 yet. Also, if the G5 1.6 and even 1.8 are slower or roughly equal to dual 1.25 G4 on some tasks, then that just shows how powerful the G4 really is. It also appears that a G4 is more powerful clock for clock than a G5, so I'm glad I don't have a 1.2 GHz G5 in my PB. My computer is way fast enough - too many people play down the G4.

I think G5s will enter PowerBooks either in late Spring (the next update) but more realistically one year from now or more. Honestly, these are good notebooks (both iBooks and PowerBooks), if you want one, go get.
 
Originally posted by nagromme
As for the 14" 1024x768... it's perfect for people who don't like staring at tiny pixels. I'm surprised how popular that model is--but if demand is there, then Apple should keep the model.
GRRR the 14" should be able to display 1280x960. what's the point of a bigger screen, if I cant get more screen. you can always make your fonts bigger if you cant see the small stuff... YMMV
 
Re: Panther

Originally posted by nycmacartist
If I were to buy a G4 Ibook, would I be able to install Panther into my G4 tower?

No, the installers that come with the computer only allow you to install it on the same model computer.

Originally posted by besson3c
Is this IBM's G3 with Altivec that Apple has decided to call the G4, or is this produced by Motorola?

The IBM G3+Altivec has never existed outside of speculation and the most unreliable of rumors. It's time to put this one to rest.
 
After this announcement, it makes my Rev A 12" pb seem like an old geezer from the last century...so sad.
 
I've got a Graphite DVSE iMac, but I want to add a portable to my Apple stable.

I'm very excited about the new iBook releases, but I've a PowerBook vs. iBook question.

I know the iBook doesn't have a SuperDrive, and I've read that you can't use iDVD without it. But are there new patches for iDVD3 that would allow me to edit with iDVD and burn with a 3rd party burner?

I was really considering the 15" Powerbook with a Superdrive (i think the 12" screen is just too small). I want to be able to burn DVDs of home movies. Maybe not today, but in a year or two. But the $1000 difference between 15"pb and new 14"ib could buy a lot of other stuff (like a 3rd party burner).

Somebody offer some advice to this notebook newbie,

Brian

p.s.
I'll be using it mostly for Internet/word/excel/iTunes, but I'd also like to do some iMovie and iPhoto editing. I'll save the old iMac for the occasional Photoshop stuff.
If I were you, I would go with PowerBook. For one, you would save space by having all components in one machine. Second, I'd rather have a machine equipped with all the features by the original manufacturer, than a machine that needs third party equipment and software. Because it is guaranteed to work properly and is not likely to have any issues with future software updates.
 
Heat and Battery Life?

Even though I welcome G4 into iBook, I wonder about heat problems and shorter battery life associated with more powerful G4. And that brings up another issue; fan noise.

I suppose we'll hear about these issues soon enough.
 
Re: Heat and Battery Life?

Originally posted by macphoria
Even though I welcome G4 into iBook, I wonder about heat problems and shorter battery life associated with more powerful G4. And that brings up another issue; fan noise.

I suppose we'll hear about these issues soon enough.

Yes, but wouldn't plastic absorb and dissipate the heat a little better than the aluminium on the PowerBook's?:confused:
 
Bye-bye CD ROM!

Also notice that the low end eMac has a combo drive instead of a CD-ROM drive. Same with the lowest-end iBook. Combo drives all along the iBook line.

I'd say that the G4 comes somewhat as a surprise since there didn't seem to be much (if any?) news about it. There was even a Crazy Apple Rumor which poked fun at the hoo-hum response of the next incarnation of the iBooks. But Apple certainly did a lot better! This might butcher some of its PowerBook sales, but it looks like that they gimped the iBooks just enough to give some nice features to the PB (super drive, extra-wide screen, FW 800).

About the only downer is that Apple no longer has a sub-$1000 laptop any more. Well, maybe in another 6 to 12 months the price will come down. But the iBook of my dreams is coming very near. A combo-drive with at least a 30 GB HD, and adding a G4 on top of that is amazing. Now, get it down below $1000, and I'll be sold.

But with these improved iBooks, it makes it even more tempting to eventually get some as gifts for family members...well, once I have enough money, that is. :)
 
Originally posted by macphoria
If I were you, I would go with PowerBook. For one, you would save space by having all components in one machine. Second, I'd rather have a machine equipped with all the features by the original manufacturer, than a machine that needs third party equipment and software. Because it is guaranteed to work properly and is not likely to have any issues with future software updates.

Plus, it'll be a lot better than running Photoshop on your old iMac :)
 
Originally posted by slowtreme
GRRR the 14" should be able to display 1280x960. what's the point of a bigger screen, if I cant get more screen. you can always make your fonts bigger if you cant see the small stuff... YMMV
Obviously Apple is selling enough of this model to keep offering 14 inch versions.

Plus older folks and those with less than perfect eyesight appreciate bigger pixels!

Sushi
 
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