New G4 iBooks

[themacolyte]

Originally posted by rog
Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor.

Real world tests will have to be done of course, but over the course of normal use I think the 800 MHz G4 will be noticeably faster than the 900 MHz G3. Each new iteration of OS X makes greater use of the Altivec unit so that mundane OS tasks are sped up. Every iLife app benefits as well. A mere 100 MHz drop in raw speed is nothing if Altivec is speeding up general tasks (AAC encoding in iTunes, picture resizing in iPhoto, etc.) by a factor of 2 to 8.

In code that doesn't use the Altivec unit, the 11% drop in speed won't be glaringly apparent.

 

[slowtreme]

WOW!

 

[cgmpowers]

Yeah I thought the iBook looked a little different...but then again I have crappy eyes..

It really is nice looking...although, I still miss colors...(was a former keylime iBook owner)...

Christopher

Originally posted by macMaestro
Yeah, there is definitly a two tone going on on the iBook. Grey on the inside, white on the outside. I like it. It looks real sleek. Subtle and sleek. Now if only they'd drop the price acouple hundred bucks, I'd be able to afford one of these babies.

 

[simX]

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.

 

[bcharm]

Isn't it possible for Apple to up the bus speeds any higher on the iBooks with IBM's CPUs?

 

[tutubibi]

Re: hmmm

Originally posted by theRebel
Any chance that this is a 750GX being called a G4 rather than a 7455?

I do not see any mention of Altivec on any of the iBook related pages.

The battery life of the new iBooks is quoted at 6 hours. How could they be getting 6 hours out of the 7455?

Good eye! There is definitely no mention of Velocity Engine on iBook G4 specs.
But I don't think it's IBM processer as they have more than 256KB L2.

 

[Veldek]

I'd be interested in the battery time of these new iBooks. The older ones were advertised with 5 respectively 6 hours. I'd guess the new ones haven't got that much, have they?

 

[punter]

Originally posted by soakwashrinse
Might be a few new 12-inch PowerBook owners kicking themselves in a few hours.

MEEEE!!!! Well not really.

I tried so hard to future proof myself by waiting for the usb2 12"PB to arrive. And I didn't get long and now all I have is available in an ibook for 700 AUD less!! (slightly smaller drive, slightly slower proc)

How does my video card compare? I note the ibook doesn't SUPPORT dual screens (no doubt there'll be a hack).

I think I will never ever look at the details of the new powerbooks again

*Repeats* i like my 12"PB, it's what I wanted and it's just as fast as the day i bought it

 

[fred]

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.

Couldn't agree more

 

[greenstork]

Re: G4 iBook = G5 Powerbook!

Originally posted by cbonz
I think this update further solidifies the G5 powerbook within the next 6-8 months. If it doesn't happen at MWSF look for it at WWDC. Makes more sense at WWDC. G5 Power Mac one year, Powerbook the next. One can only hope...

I couldn't agree with you more. I had thought that some sort of Altivec G3 was coming but seeing the G4 in the iBook can only mean that the PB is getting a G5. I'm going to say MWSF given that Apple is doing fewer events every year and wants the events that they do to be special.

 

[sushi]

Re: PB sales

Originally posted by jayb2000 I can see the 12" iBook, for cost purposes, but it looks to me like the 12" PB would kill the 14" iBook sales.

Please remember that some of us older folks prefer the bigger pixels (lower resolution displays) since it makes things easier to read. The reason Apple makes the 14 inch iBook is that there is a market for them.

Sushi

 

[pb&j]

Moto G4 / IBM G3?

Are these new iBooks housing Moto's G4? or are they a new G3 relabeled? If they are in fact Moto's, then what happened to the talk of the G3 sticking around for a 'long time'??? Will someone please respond to this and straighten me out on whether or not the G3 is truly dead.

 

[johnnowak]

Where the heck did this come from. Yeesh.

G5 powerbooks within 6 months, please!

 

[tutubibi]

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.

I don't agree with you. This update makes sense. You get machine for $200 less that has same performace (lose some scalar perf, gain some vector perf) as the old one plus new features like USB2 and AE. And now you can run some of the pro apps that require G4 on iBook.

 

[Sun Baked]

Just to say again...

The is a lot like a PowerBook 12, with

1. A Motorola 7445 Processor (may be the newest x45 revision)

2 . Consumer software package (Appleworks, games, etc)

3. Plastic case

4. Less RAM soldered onto motherboard -- and still no superdrive.

5. Slightly larger, with 1/3 lb more beef.

---

And because it's using the same chipset as the PowerBooks/iMac -- the Intrepid -- OS 9 booting is DEAD.

 

[Ramsos]

The new ibooks have a slot loading combo drive isn't that new to ibooks, and while I know they are not available with a superdrive I'm pretty sure you can use an external dvd-r drive and burn dvd's now that its a g4(DVD Studio Pro).

 

[dho]

Re: Re: hmmm

Originally posted by tutubibi
Good eye! There is definitely no mention of Velocity Engine on iBook G4 specs.
But I don't think it's IBM processer as they have more than 256KB L2.

That could very well be true, but with 6 hours of battery it makes me wonder. They might have not wanted to put in the extra L2 to keep it bellow the current pbook. This could be just what makes an Ibook an Ibook until the wait is over for a pbg5. All they would need to do then is slap on a higher speed IBM "g4" and add more L2.

Is their a limiter on the ibm chip that says it needs to have 512kb L2?

or, not. That is just what makes sense to me.

edit: I am just backing up "theRebel" who originally noticed the 6 hours battery life.

 

[mxpiazza]

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.

i would agree with you in some aspects, however, this also had to make buisness sense for apple. if you had a 12" iBook and a 12" PB with the 1GHz processor, tons of people would just get the iBook. this still offers some seperation.

 

[manu chao]

Battery life

The 12in iBook uses a 50Wh battery with an 800Mhz G4 and claims 6h, the 14in iBook uses a 61Wh battery with an 933Mhz G4 and claims 6h (I'm sure the 6h applies only to the 933Mhz version).
The 15in Powerbook uses a 46Wh (12in:47Wh) battery with an 1Ghz G4 and claims 4.5h.
The iBooks are thicker (12in: 1.35in against 1.18in, 14/15in: 1.35in against 1.1in) than the Powerbooks and a little bit heavier as well. Thicker, heavier computer allows for a bigger battery plus lower speeds give you a better battery live.

But the 867Mhz/1Ghz Ti-books had about a 61Wh battery and only five hours of battery live, from which one could conclude that the new iBooks have a more power-efficient processor (e.g. a version of the 7447 with only 256K of cache). BTW, what is the difference between the 7455 and 7447/57? On the face of it a bigger L2 cache, and lower power consumption. But that lower power consumption has to have a reason (and don't tell me it's the omission of the L3 cache, the 7457 has a L3 cache and is still more power-efficient).

 

[kristianm]

Originally posted by themacolyte
Each new iteration of OS X makes greater use of the Altivec unit so that mundane OS tasks are sped up.

Maybe 10.4 will require a G4 or better? All altivec from now on?

 

[johnnyjibbs]

A lot of people seem to be jumping the gun with this. I think Apple has got it right.

At first sight, I was a little worried that my new PB 12" was suddenly not as good anymore. But then I looked some more.

First off, if the rev A PB 12" 867 was apparently slower than the 900 G3 iBook on non-altivec tasks, then this new iBook 800 will be slower because it uses exactly the same processor as the old PowerBook. They probably capped it at 800MHz because of the heat problem, especially without a metal case to dissapte the heat. So the new iBook 800 is still worse performance-wise than the rev A PowerBook.

Meanwhile, the 14" is bigger so can cope with the increased heat. They can afford to increase its speed also because it is a different market to the 12". If you're thinking, where is the more powerful 12" iBook, I'll say this: I'm typing on one right now (i.e. the 12" PowerBook). A more powerful 12" iBook would cannibalise 12" PB sales, hence it is only the entry-level model now.

What is best is that these iBooks now have far more aggressive pricing, certainly in the UK, - you get a hell of a lot for £849 (base model).

Will PowerBooks go G5 soon? I probably think not, and I'm not just saying that in the hope that they don't. These iBooks are not that close to the PowerBooks in performance, even the 14"PB 1 GHz vs the 12" PB. Therefore there is no need for the PBs to jump to G5 yet. Also, if the G5 1.6 and even 1.8 are slower or roughly equal to dual 1.25 G4 on some tasks, then that just shows how powerful the G4 really is. It also appears that a G4 is more powerful clock for clock than a G5, so I'm glad I don't have a 1.2 GHz G5 in my PB. My computer is way fast enough - too many people play down the G4.

I think G5s will enter PowerBooks either in late Spring (the next update) but more realistically one year from now or more. Honestly, these are good notebooks (both iBooks and PowerBooks), if you want one, go get.

 

[dho]

johnnyjibbs:
just to warn you, I think you might be flamed by some Moto haters pretty quick. You better grab on to something.

 

[usersince86]

$425 less and PRETTY similar...

Though they’re not exactly the same, the specs are similar. With the new iBooks, by upgrading the HD to 40G and adding the BlueTooth module, you’re PRETTY CLOSE to the 12” PowerBook Combo Drive for $425. less:

=========
iBOOK 12”
=========
* 800MHz PowerPC G4
* 256MB DDR266 SDRAM (128MB built-in & 128MB SO-DIMM)
* 256K L2 cache
* 40GB Ultra ATA drive
* Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
* FW400 & USB 2
* Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
* 12-inch TFT XGA display
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 w/ 32MB DDR video memory
* BlueTooth
Subtotal $1,174.00

===============
POWERBOOK 12”
===============
* 1GHz PowerPC G4
* 256MB DDR266 (256MB built-in)
* 512K L2 cache
* 40GB Ultra ATA drive
* Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
* FW400 & USB 2
* Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* 12.1-inch TFT Display
* NVIDIA GeForce FX Go 5200 (32MB DDR)
* BlueTooth
Subtotal $1,599.00

It depends on what you want, of course, but this is a nice move for Apple. Maybe when the PB goes G5 (or whatever) you’ll be able to an iBook w/SuperDrive.

 

[Sun Baked]

The Rev. A PowerBook 12 used the 7445 Rev F(3.3) Processor.

There is a newer Rev G(3.4) available.

And until somebody pops open a G4 iBook we won't know which spec range (aka temp range) or which revision it'll be.

But at 800MHz, it should not be too hot. It's clock way down from the old W spec chips Apple used in the PowerBooks.

Plus plastic is an insulator, so the case won't feel as hot as the PowerBook. (Though inside is another story)

 

[tutubibi]

If new iBooks are using 7445 (more likely since no need for L3 support that 7455 provides) it should not be too hot. Also, it should have a good battery life.
Look at the specs:

http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653

Power disipation for 800 MHz is max 24 W, typical 17 W.
For reference, Pentium M (Centrino) has around 22 W for 1.3 GHz.