New G4 iBooks

[chamberlain]

It doesn't have AltiVec!

I'm thinking it is not a Moto G4. There is no mention of AltiVec in the tech specs. But in the tech specs of the Powerbook (and any other G4) it is very clear.

Example:

iBook -
800MHz, 933MHz or 1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with 256K on-chip level 2 cache running at full processor speed

Powerbook -
1GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine, 512K SRAM on-chip L2 cache, 133MHz system bus (12-inch models)

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to get one and open it up. But what good is a G4 without AltiVec. All marketing I suppose.

 

[BOOMBA]

SWEEET

I just bought 2 of the 1 Ghz models.

This is swell.

 

[Blaaze]

holy ****. that's awesome!

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by machinehien
Well the G3 as a sub-brand was getting long in the tooth. Imagine if Intel was still trying to market the Pentium II, irregardless of how much clockspeed they could squeeze out, that's why they just rebadged it as the Pentium III. In the end the G3 processor was becoming a liability when people were weighing the features for a consumer notebook.

Irregardless isn't a word.

 

[Edot]

Losing a processor

Now Apple only has two processors to program for instead of 3. Will this mean that Panther is the last version of OS X to run on a g3?

 

[pilotgi]

I want my G3

I would have preferred that this upgrade included the next gen G3 instead of the G4. I don't need Altivec and this so called upgrade uses an older processor, although the marketing spin appears to represent an upgrade because they went from G3 to G4.

This raises an interesting question as to whether Apple will continue to use Moto processors in the future. How many more years will Apple continue to use the G4 now that it is available in the iBook?

I think they're just using up their stockpile of G4's until a new G3 chip is available that supports ddr and a 200Mhz or better bus. They just won't call it a G3. Probably some kind of "MobilityX" processor.

 

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.

Rubbish. My 500 G4 TiBook still WHUPS the 900 G3 iBook at EVERYTHING I throw at it.

 

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Abraxsis
Personally I dont like the plastic cases of the iBook. Now if they still had the partially metal cases then I might be kicking myself ... just a little bit though.

it seems though you've never used an iBook. The iBook (USB) has always had aluminum on the inside (hence the flatter, more greyish color) and white plastic on the outside. The thicker plastic actually makes the iBook more durable, in my opinion. It's not as prone to scratching or bending (of the screen).

edit: "It was designed with durability in mind, using ultratough polycarbonate plastic — the same material used in bulletproof glass — with an internal magnesium frame for added strength." (Apple)

 

[woodsey]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Rubbish. My 500 G4 TiBook still WHUPS the 900 G3 iBook at EVERYTHING I throw at it.

Sadly you are very mistaken. The 900 iBook would trounce your TiBook in everyday performance, especially graphics. Your G4 would only be faster in altivec operations.

And Im not just having a go at you. I own a TiBook too.

 

[alset]

Sad to see that portability now means loss of power. I want a faster chip in the 12". The 14" machine is a joke for students.

Still, I'm happy to wake up to this great news!

Dan

 

[macphoria]

What a pleasant surprise. I was expecting yet another G3 update.

 

[Ensoniq]

Regardless of the word "AltiVec" missing from Apple's tech pages, this is an iBook G4 and has AltiVec. It's the Motorola processor...get over it.

Whether or not PowerBook G5 machines will be here in 6 months, the new iBook is not evidence to either support or negate it. Apple did a great job of distinguishing the iBook and PowerBook lines...far better than I could have thought with both lines using the G4 now.

Basically, there is exactly a $500 difference between each of these sets of machines:

12" iBook 800 Combo ... 12" PB 1GHz Combo

14" iBook 933 Combo ... 12" PB 1 GHz SuperDrive

14" iBook 1 GHz Combo ... 15" PB 1 GHz Combo

These are the comparable iBook/PB siblings. The 15" & 17" SuperDrive PB models are way out of the iBook's league...so there is no comparison.

So if you look at those machine pairings listed above, I think Apple separated each quite well, even though they all share the G4 chip. Max RAM, cache size, video processor, DVI out, FW 800, SuperDrive...big enough differences in each pairing to justify the $500 difference if you're a "power whore", or to enjoy the $500 savings if you're "budget minded."

If by some chance there is a PowerBook G5 in 6 months, then we know the iBooks will get up to 1.33 GHz G4s. And if they are the IBM 750VX (which will absolutely be called a G4 by Apple marketing), then it's higher speeds, higher cache and bye-bye Motorola.

Even if the 800 MHz G4 iBook is slower in SOME tasks than the 900 MHz G3 it replaced, it's $200 less and a better overall package again for the "budget minded". Apple can't please all the "power whores" all the time...

Without a doubt, Apple's best iBook lineup ever. No one should be disappointed about anything. Buy the iBook for the PowerBook based on your needs, but don't insult the new iBook. It's a waste of energy.

 

[neilw]

For what it's worth, this pretty clearly suggests the near-term evolution plan for the iBooks. When the PowerBooks go G5 in their next rev (I hope), the iBooks will then move on to use 1 GHz / 1.25 GHz 7447s. That'll be a nice performance bump.

I'm a little surprised how many seem to think the 12" iBook and PowerBook are too close together. I'd expect an 1 GHz G4 w/512 MB L2 to be considerably faster than the 800 MHz G4 w/256 MB L2. At least enough to keep the machines in separate classes.

 

[machinehien]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Irregardless isn't a word.

You got me there.

Irregardless, I don't care if IBM's G3 could raise the dead, Apple needed to move forward to the next gen chip up. G3's have been around the iBook lineup since 99'. My 700 Mhz iBook I got in 2001 doesn't seem that far off from what the iBook lineup was last week. At least they updated the some of the ports, added Airport Extreme and a better graphics card.

 

[macphoria]

I wonder if this "older G4" will cause heat related problems in new iBooks?

 

[chamberlain]

Regardless of the word "AltiVec" missing from Apple's tech pages, this is an iBook G4 and has AltiVec. It's the Motorola processor...get over it.

Hey hey now, It looks like you got your panty's in more of a bunch than I do.

 

[jcshas]

iBook envy!

Allright, as much as I try to tell myself I'm not going to get caught up in a silly game of upgrading every time Apple comes out with something newer and cooler, it just doesn’t work. I purchased my 800 MHz G3 iBook (combo) in August. Surley there can't be that much of a performance difference between my 800 G3 iBook and the new 800 G4 iBooks, right? Maybe then I won't feel so bad! BENCHMARKS, I NNED TO SEE BENCHMARKS!

 

[wizard]

Interesting Question to say the least.

Personally I like this rev of the iBooks, kinda wished that they went with the newset rev of the G4 but that didn't happen.

The only problem is that this happened sooner than expected so the bank account isn't ready. I do hope that the units still unofficially support expansion beyond 640MB of memory. Limited memory capacity is one thing that would keep me away from these machines. I'm sure in the next 24 Hrs we will hear the skinny on this. I do hope that all of that 256MB of memory is soldeed in an that they arent using the expansion bay to get that number.

Dave

Originally posted by Marc the Mac
Can anyone tell me which is better?

The ibook G4's ATI Mobility Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB of DDR SDRAM

Or the 12" Powebook's NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 with 32MB of DDR SDRAM

 

[ColoJohnBoy]

DAMN IT ALL!!! IT ISN'T A WORD!!!

But that's just the anal-retentive English major in me talking.

I think these updates are great. Pretty much like every update - could have been better, could have been worse. There's logical reasoning behind every decision made on these iBooks, faulty or not. I would have liked to see a better graphics chip (Radeon 9000 Pro), more L2 cache, and a G3 with AltiVec (I don't like Motorola, and would rather Apple convert their whole line to IBM processors. Oh well....), but hell, I think these are pretty damn good. My roomie has a 12" 700 MHz iBook, 20 GB HD, and ComboDrive. When I told her about the iBook G4, she started uttering a string of obscenities I dare not repeat here. Needlees to say, some people would just prefer to have an iBook, even if it isn't the best. It's perfect for what they do.

 

[mrsebastian]

makes sense to me why apple did this. first off, i don't know exact numbers, but i sincerely doubt the difference between the faster g3 or slower g4 will mean much to actual working speed. maybe a little in apps like photoshop, but day-to-day i expect the new and last model to feel very similar. so as far as apples costs compared to perceived value, works in apples favor here.

second, the g3 is acient! were talking back to the days of the beige box. so they had to drop the old processor. i may be wrong, but i would also assume 10.3 runs much better and with less bugs on a g4 than a g3 -- so it was high time to dump the g3.

finally, i think apple is making the ibook more attractive to shoppers looking for something for their kids (ie: college). with itms, ipod, and apple certainly marketing to a younger audience with all these products, so it makes sense to offer them a matching ibook to go with their ipod... funny, i just remembered a dream i had this morning and i was using an apple made cell phone... anyway, apple keep up the good work and i expect my pb17 to be available with a g5 soon!

 

[agdickinson]

New G4 iBooks

Cool,

Posted the article and my name got deleted

Thanks guys....
NOT

 

[Lancetx]

One other thing of note when distinguishing the G3/900 vs G4/800 iBooks is that the G4 has a 133MHz bus as opposed to the 100MHz on the old G3/900. Plus the G4/800 uses DDR RAM which the G3 does not. This doesn't even take into account the graphics upgrade from the Radeon 7500 to the 9200. I'm sure this more than makes up for the 100MHz CPU clock speed reduction and whether it's an Altivec operation or not, the new G4 iBook will outperform the previous G3 model.

 

[jxyama]

Re: iBook envy!

Originally posted by jcshas
Allright, as much as I try to tell myself I'm not going to get caught up in a silly game of upgrading every time Apple comes out with something newer and cooler, it just doesnt work. I purchased my 800 MHz G3 iBook (combo) in August. Surley there can't be that much of a performance difference between my 800 G3 iBook and the new 800 G4 iBooks, right? Maybe then I won't feel so bad! BENCHMARKS, I NNED TO SEE BENCHMARKS!

here's one benchmark for ya.

at a saving of (say) 1 second per operation per application, how long will it be before the new G4 iBook will make up the 2+ months you've had your G3 iBook?

just trying to make you feel better... there's no benchmarking for the time you've already spent working/playing with your current machine...

 

[mrsebastian]

Re: iBook envy!

Originally posted by jcshas
Allright, as much as I try to tell myself I'm not going to get caught up in a silly game of upgrading every time Apple comes out with something newer and cooler, it just doesn’t work. I purchased my 800 MHz G3 iBook (combo) in August. Surley there can't be that much of a performance difference between my 800 G3 iBook and the new 800 G4 iBooks, right? Maybe then I won't feel so bad! BENCHMARKS, I NNED TO SEE BENCHMARKS!

though it's a pain, you're better off upgrading immediately when apple comes out with a new version of your hardware product. the longer you wait the less you are gonna get for your older model. if you upgrade immediately, you might even break even. as a basic guidline, with every revision the value of the previous model will go down by about 25% and if it gets eol'd, like this 500mhz g3 imac sitting here at the office, it's worth *****!

the secret to saving as much of the original purchase price is to upgrade as soon as it's revised and used the power of ebay to sell the old one!

 

[wizard]

While it is easy to agree with you about the 800 MHz processor, it will at tiems appear to be slower that the old machine, I have to disagree strongly about the 14" model.

Many of us like the resolution of that monitor just fine. If you don't like it look else where for a portable (Powerbook maybe). The last thing Apple needs to do is to push onto the market a crappy screen on their low cost machines.

As far as the processor goes, I think it remains to be seen what the results will be performance wise. On the other hand it doesn't really matter as absolute performance is not the reason to get an IBook. Performance as a portable is, to this end I'm more concerned about battery life than anything else. Sure I would hope that overall the new machines perform better than the units they replace, but not at the expense of the battery. I'm sure we will learn very quickly just how well thse machine do behave relative to the old ones. My geuss is that it will be a pleasant surprise for some. The cobination of AltVec, faster memory, and a new GPU should make for an interesting mix performance wise.

Thanks
Dave

Originally posted by rog
Sadly, these are using the old slow style portable G4 with only 256 kb L2 cache and no L3. Given that huge compromise, it's sad that they bumped up the price $100 on the low end, although now it has a combo drive. Also, the top 12" iBook is only 800 MHz when it has been a 900 MHz G3 with 512kb cache for over 6 months. For most non-altivec tasks, it will be slower than the model it replaces, although $200 cheaper. There's no excuse for not offering a 12" model with a faster processor. The 14" still has the same poor 1024x768 resolution and you have to buy this overweight much less portable machine if you want the fastest iBook. Booooo Apple. Big mistake! Since these iBooks will likely be around for another 6 months, it is just embarassing that Apple will have an $1100 800 MHz machine in its lineup, with a crippled G4 in 2003. PCs at that speed were that price in 2000, and an old 800MHz P3 probably trounces the celeron like verison of the G4 that Apple is using in the iBook. I am beginning to think this "upgrade" makes the OS9 booting 900 MHz G3 model more attractive.