New iMac, FrontRow and PhotoBooth Apps

[devman]

FINALLY, someone with the same questions i have. I know we'll be able to buy Front Row for other macs but i cant find it on the apple website for purchase. I only see references for it in the context of it coming with the new iMac.


HOW DO I GET THAT LONG AWAITED ADHESIVE NAMED FRONT ROW?

It's only available with the new iMacs (according to Cnet)

 

[Evangelion]

Why is everyone drooling over the X600 XT/Pro? It's just the 9600 XT/Pro with PCI-Express instead of AGP.

Exactly because of that. Yes, the perofrmance-difference between 9600 and x600 is not that big. But the change to PCI-Express is a big one. Why? It means that Apple is abandoning AGP, and moving on to PCI-E. And why is that important? It's important because all modern vid-cards are PCI-E. Had Apple ssticked with AGP, it would have meant crappy vid-cards for the Mac. Move to PCI-E means that we could see state-of-the-art vid-cards in PowerMac and PowerBook, instead of vid-cards that were mediocre at best over a year ago.

 

[Evangelion]

Before your PC ships you might want to consider that new PBs and PMs will need 10.4.3, which (hopefully) is close to release. Why would they need 10.4.3? Maybe because they will have dual cores - the Freescale G4 for the PB and the IBM G5 for the PM.

There will be NO dual-core G4 in the PowerBook!

 

[Evangelion]

PCI-E may be superior, but there must be a video card to take advantage of the bandwidth it provides. Touting PCI-E on the new iMac as a significant advantage over its predecessor is meaningless since the X600 Pro and XT offer only small incremental real-world performance improvements. PCI-E may have the potential for a lot more, but that potential is stifled by the captive video card, heat or no heat.

The point is this: Many people believed that Apple was not willing to make drastic changes to their current product-lineup, due to pending Intel-transition. Replacing AGP with PCI-Express is a big change. It requires new slots, new motherboards, new chipsets, the works. And since Apple was willing to make this change in the iMac, they are prepared to make it elsewhere as well, most notable PowerBook and PowerMac (which need this change a lot more than iMac does). What does that mean? It means that those pro-machines can get vid-cards that are suitable for pro-machines. All new vid-cards use PCI-E. The vid-cards used in PowerBook and PowerMac were mediocre over a year ago, hardly fitting components to be used in top-end machines?

 

[aliasfox]

Exactly because of that. Yes, the perofrmance-difference between 9600 and x600 is not that big. But the change to PCI-Express is a big one. Why? It means that Apple is abandoning AGP, and moving on to PCI-E. And why is that important? It's important because all modern vid-cards are PCI-E. Had Apple ssticked with AGP, it would have meant crappy vid-cards for the Mac. Move to PCI-E means that we could see state-of-the-art vid-cards in PowerMac and PowerBook, instead of vid-cards that were mediocre at best over a year ago.

Well, the X600XT is actually still more or less comparable to ATi's just-released X1300- 4 pipelines at roughly 500 MHz.

And in case anyone was wondering, the 9600 was (IIRC) 4 pipelines @ 350 MHz. The 9600 XT (same performance as the X600XT) was a relatively respected performer (even in the gaming community) a year or so ago...

It ain't no X1800XT, but that's coming next week, isn't it, Apple?

 

[Evangelion]

So basiclly there are two different type of remotes put out today?

A bluetooth remote for controlling the universal dock and an IR remote that comes shipped with the new iMac?

No, just one. If you look at the iPod dock, you will see the IR-receiver in the front.

 

[shazammy]

Apple Remote - and Front Row

From the Apple Store website -

Apple Remote with iPod
If you connect your iPod to a home stereo, powered speakers or TV set, the Apple Remote lets you experience your songs, slideshows and more from across the room. Just plug your iPod into the Universal Dock and choose a playlist, slideshow or video. Then, sit back, relax and enjoy. Ready to move on to the next song? No need to get up from your sofa--just press the forward button on the Apple Remote. Phone ringing? Just click pause, then pick up where you left off.

The Apple Remote offers play/pause, volume control and forward/back buttons.

The Apple Remote requires the iPod Universal Dock and any iPod with a Dock connector.

Apple Remote with Mac
Included with the new iMac G5, the Apple Remote gives you total command of your music, photos, videos and DVDs from anywhere in the room. It combines with Front Row -- a menu-driven, full-screen interface -- to make accessing your iMac's digital bounty from any seat in the room as simple as navigating your iPod. When you click the Apple Remote's Menu button, your desktop fades and Front Row's sleek interface takes its place to give you control over your music in iTunes, your photos in iPhoto, the videos in your Movies folder and whatever DVDs you want to play. Turn up the volume. Shuffle. Skip to the next chapter on your DVD. Play a slideshow, a home movie you made in iMovie, even a movie trailer. Just sit back and enjoy the show.

What's in the Box:

* Apple Remote
* Battery (CR 2032)
* User Guide

This makes is sound like you can buy an Apple Remote down the line for older iMacs, probably buy (or download for free) the Front Row application. I have heard from several sources that the new Remote is Bluetooth on the iMac, NOT IR. I can only imagine that they will include the last iMac revs in this, as it seems like there are no roadblocks or special proprietary "new iMac only" features that would limit it to just what came out on Wednesday. I belive that IR compliant devices are required to list that functionality in their tech specs, and this one does not list that. It's possible that the remote is both IR and Bluetooth, for use with the Apple Universal Dock, but I'm not sure about that. Only time will tell.

 

[matticus008]

This makes is sound like you can buy an Apple Remote down the line for older iMacs, probably buy (or download for free) the Front Row application. I have heard from several sources that the new Remote is Bluetooth on the iMac, NOT IR. I can only imagine that they will include the last iMac revs in this, as it seems like there are no roadblocks or special proprietary "new iMac only" features that would limit it to just what came out on Wednesday. I belive that IR compliant devices are required to list that functionality in their tech specs, and this one does not list that. It's possible that the remote is both IR and Bluetooth, for use with the Apple Universal Dock, but I'm not sure about that. Only time will tell.

The Apple remote is the same for both products, and is infrared. It is not a Bluetooth device in any capacity at this time. The universal dock does not include a Bluetooth stack, and the remote itself has an IR lens. Also, based on the implication of the product pages, you can buy an Apple remote for $29 to replace or add to the one that comes with the iMac. The remote codes are understood both by iPod and Front Row.

Again, NOT Bluetooth at all.

 

[dimboo]

User serviceable?

Is the new iMac G5 just as user serviceable as the previous model?

Kind regards,

Dimitri

 

[Squire]

The iPod didn't get an update on it's audio, the iMac doesn't have video out... it just bothers me that it appears as though apple is trying to soak customers now, rather than giving us what we really would pay for. Meanwhile, I figure they'll offer up a mac-mini that does what we want come 2006. This isn't good business, and it's not a good way to treat your existing customer base who would willingly buy quality products.

(bold added)
Not true...

Apple told iLounge that the fifth-generation iPod features greatly enhanced audio recording capabilities, and improved playback capabilities. The company said the new iPod sounds as good or better than the iPod shuffle, which Apple considers its prior gold standard in terms of sound quality.

Squire

 

[Sun Baked]

Does anyone know if the iMac processors are the new lower-wattage version of the G5?

Probably not since the cache in the specs hasn't changed.

The 970GX was supposed to have a larger 1MB L2 cache.

 

[Evangelion]

Probably not since the cache in the specs hasn't changed.

The 970GX was supposed to have a larger 1MB L2 cache.

That's the 970MP, not 970GX. Cache-specs of 970GX have not been specified.

 

[ksz]

The point is this: Many people believed that Apple was not willing to make drastic changes to their current product-lineup, due to pending Intel-transition. Replacing AGP with PCI-Express is a big change. It requires new slots, new motherboards, new chipsets, the works. And since Apple was willing to make this change in the iMac, they are prepared to make it elsewhere as well, most notable PowerBook and PowerMac (which need this change a lot more than iMac does). What does that mean? It means that those pro-machines can get vid-cards that are suitable for pro-machines. All new vid-cards use PCI-E. The vid-cards used in PowerBook and PowerMac were mediocre over a year ago, hardly fitting components to be used in top-end machines?

Yes of course, no one is arguing this. The point of contention is this: What is the benefit of this change to the iMac buyer? You cannot tell the iMac buyer that this architectural change is great and wonderful because it heralds a similar change in the PowerMac and PowerBook where the potential of the new architecture will REALLY be realized, but not on the iMac. Do you think the iMac buyer will be impressed by your statement?

To be fair, though, the X600 XT is 50% faster than the Radeon 9600 it replaces. So the value to the iMac buyer is simply this and nothing more. Remember that we're dealing with a captive video chip in the iMac.

 

[ksz]

Why is the back of the iMac bulging? It doesn't look flat.

Exactly right, by design.

Watch the QuickTime stream of the media event and you'll have your answer delivered by Jobs himself.

 

[gedto]

50% increase in speed seems quite good for me, especially at the same price.

Now the iMac is a compact workstation that is suitable for almost-pro (if not pro) work. Motion and the likes are going to boost their performance in the new iMac.

 

[Evangelion]

Yes of course, no one is arguing this. The point of contention is this: What is the benefit of this change to the iMac buyer?

Ummmm.... They get a faster vid-card, with potential of getting even faster vid-cards in future models? AGP was a dead-end, PCI-E is not.

You cannot tell the iMac buyer that this architectural change is great and wonderful because it heralds a similar change in the PowerMac and PowerBook where the potential of the new architecture will REALLY be realized, but not on the iMac. Do you think the iMac buyer will be impressed by your statement?

No, what they should be impressed by the better specs of the iMac.

To be fair, though, the X600 XT is 50% faster than the Radeon 9600 it replaces.

And you are asking me "What is the benefit of this change to the iMac buyer?"? Huh?

So the value to the iMac buyer is simply this and nothing more.

But I'm not a iMac-buyer. Most people here are not rushing to the store to buy the iMac either. What many of us ARE waiting for is the upgrades to PowerBook and PowerMac, and this upgrade gives us clear hints about that. But if you look at this solely from the perspective of a iMac-buyer, the benefit is simply that they get a faster and better machine for same amount of money (well duh!).

 

[ksz]

And you are asking me "What is the benefit of this change to the iMac buyer?"? Huh?

I am not asking; I am *stating* that the real benefit is the 50% improvement. Of course, 50% better than 'slow' is still slow, but that's another story...since the X600 XT will be good enough for most iMac buyers according to Apple's market study.

I am further stating that the switch from AGP to PCI-E is a more or less moot point on the iMac because of the *relatively* slow captive video card.

But if you look at this solely from the perspective of a iMac-buyer, the benefit is simply that they get a faster and better machine for same amount of money (well duh!).

Yes, that's the point. PCI-E is not the point.

 

[BenRoethig]

This computer has an integrated LCD screen. A media centre computer that otuputs to TV has no need for a screen. It's a different market.

Now this iMac is perfect for college kids...

HDTV, Movie rentals - they're different markets too and we're not there yet. The studios have to get cool with their new copy protection, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray needs to sort itself out, HDCP needs to be added, bandwidth issues, legally ripping DVDs, etc. etc.

Going for TV shows first is clever IMHO.

There are different types of media center PCS. There are the media center PCs which are shaped to be a part of your entertainment center and are designed to connect to your TV. There are also the far more common regular desktop running Windows Media Center Edition which most are hooked up to a standard monitor Is this to compete against the former? Obviously not. Is the iMac competing against MCE2005 desktops? Yes.

 

[Evangelion]

I am not asking; I am *stating* that the real benefit is the 50% improvement. Of course, 50% better than 'slow' is still slow, but that's another story...since the X600 XT will be good enough for most iMac buyers according to Apple's market study.

I am further stating that the switch from AGP to PCI-E is a more or less moot point on the iMac because of the *relatively* slow captive video card.


Yes, that's the point. PCI-E is not the point.

PCI-E is the point as well. Had they sticked with AGP, it would have meant that there would be NO vid-card updates on the iMac. AGP was a dead-end. PCI-E gives them lots of room for upgrades.

 

[ksz]

50% increase in speed seems quite good for me, especially at the same price.

Now the iMac is a compact workstation that is suitable for almost-pro (if not pro) work. Motion and the likes are going to boost their performance in the new iMac.

Improvements to the iMac go further than this.

The built-in iSight, for example, is a better version than the standalone iSight, boasting a higher pixel resolution (640x480). And what to do about those darkened rooms in which the iMac will often be used? Apple solved this problem with their usual flair: PhotoBooth software uses the LCD's backlight as a camera flash. The LCD backlight momentarily goes to full brightness as the camera snaps a photo. No wonder they increased the brightness of the LCDs!

 

[ksz]

PCI-E is the point as well. Had they sticked with AGP, it would have meant that there would be NO vid-card updates on the iMac. AGP was a dead-end. PCI-E gives them lots of room for upgrades.

They could have upgraded the Radeon 9600 to either of these:

Radeon 9600 Pro
Radeon 9600 XT

 

[matticus008]

They could have upgraded the Radeon 9600 to either of these:

Radeon 9600 Pro
Radeon 9600 XT

The important thing to remember is manufacturing tendencies. ATi is clearly releasing its more innovative chipsets for PCI-E, and AGP is getting second-rate technology at a price premium. Apple is using third-rate video hardware, so they're hedging their bets for the future. The next round of midrange GPUs will become available to Apple at a low cost if they just move along with the industry to PCI-E.

AGP is pretty much a dead end platform.

 

[ksz]

The important thing to remember is manufacturing tendencies. ATi is clearly releasing its more innovative chipsets for PCI-E, and AGP is getting second-rate technology at a price premium. Apple is using third-rate video hardware, so they're hedging their bets for the future. The next round of midrange GPUs will become available to Apple at a low cost if they just move along with the industry to PCI-E.

AGP is pretty much a dead end platform.

I agree with this. I welcome the switch to PCI-E and I believe it's a harbinger of things to come on the new PBs and PMs.

However, does the X600 alone justify the switch from AGP to PCI-E when the Radeon 9600 Pro and XT would have delivered the same level of performance? (Most iMac users will not use Motion.)

The switch to PCI-E is a good thing, but it is not the point. If end users could actually upgrade the video card then *absolutely* PCI-E would be the point, but sadly they can't upgrade.

 

[matticus008]

I agree with this. I welcome the switch to PCI-E and I believe it's a harbinger of things to come on the new PBs and PMs.

However, does the X600 alone justify the switch from AGP to PCI-E when the Radeon 9600 Pro and XT would have delivered the same level of performance? (Most iMac users will not use Motion.)

The switch to PCI-E is a good thing, but it is not the point. If end users could actually upgrade the video card then *absolutely* PCI-E would be the point, but sadly they can't upgrade.

No, the X600 itself doesn't have any merits going for itself over the XT other than futureproofing, but that's important enough given the costs of developing and producing new logic boards (especially since Apple is no stranger to the faulty logic board).

 

[bodeh6]

I guess this means that next Tuesday we will see the PowerMac with the PCIe X850 256MB standard with optional 512MB Radeon X1800XT.