Ben, why aren't you upgrading your existing MP?
And then why won't that logic apply to your new MP in a couple years?
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New Mac Pro upgradability.
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Ben, why aren't you upgrading your existing MP?
And then why won't that logic apply to your new MP in a couple years?
Good observation and I think you're right. After watching the video on how the new Mac Pro is being produced in Apple's factory, the processes and equipment they're using seems proprietary. Just the cylinder enclosure alone undergoes a series of processes only specific to Apple's specs. And I think Apple had to "built in" the cost of production into the nMac Pro's retail price that caught us by surprise. Another thing to keep in mind is if Apple offers upgradeability to the nMac Pro, what will be the price since only a few users will order and the design is custom built. Though I may be wrong and we'll have to wait and find out on the release of the nMac Pro.
I have a hunch Apple is streamlining to have a "One System" for all its Macs including the nMac Pro in terms of production, upgradeability, distribution and suppliers. Had a chat with an Apple sales consultant and as far as he knows, Apple does not stock too much on upgrade parts or keep an inventory on BTOs. When a customer orders a BTO model, that is the only time Apple purchases the parts from the supplier and usually expensive being custom ordered. His opinion, if Apple offers an upgrade option the pricing may not be cheap.
Like they didn't do on the 27" iMac ?
Apple didn't want to cut holes in the 21.5" iMac cover to get to the RAM. On the 27" they hid it behind the pedestal arm. The laptops they hide the access on the bottom of the machine (normally not seen.)
The modern track record is that Apple designs go for seemless. A latch to get to the split DIMMs locations versus two hatches in the case is a no brainer. Two hatches is a looser in the current Apple design language.
The DIMM and SSD slots are accesible. The rest are not so much. Access to the GPU cards, and internals all look like require taking off the top. This is disassembly of the internal structural infrastructure. That's new.
The power supply is sandwiched between two logic boards ( CPU and I/O port controllers ).
Current Mac Pro flip two levers pull out CPU+RAM tray.
New Mac Pro remove top and fan connections . Probably also remove I/O card, and power supply to get at screws.
If look here at ( 1:12 in )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IbWOQWw1wkM#t=72
You'll see that the thermal core has 4 screw holes embedded in it on each of the three sides. The CPU and GPU cards are all physically screwed into the system. No causal pull-out... screwed in.
Those screws are going to be applied from the outside of the thermal core and likely hence on the opposite side of the card ( the one closest to the outer shell. ) The other issue is the grove in the core where likely have to get another coupling heat conduit on the card's inner surface precisely matched.
The problem is that this picture.
http://images.apple.com/mac-pro/images/static/processor.jpg
has already surgically removed both the power supply and connector logic board. If go through the animation transition from "computing" to "processor" here
http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
you can see these parts 'fade away'.
It seems extremely unlikely that will be able to just pull that CPU+chipset card straight out of its backplane socket just after taking off just the top. There is major disassembly to be done before can get that card out.
It is likely that the thermal core is attached to the bottom backplane so probably no 'workaroud' of detaching the GPUs and pulling whole core and attached CPU card out.
There are certainly a group of folks who sell configuration services and/or parts who are kicking up a FUD storm. But optimized, simplified for the open and tinker with more than the SSD and RAM DIMMs? That also is a bit of disconnected from reality.
the dimms don't have to be arranged like that (fanning on both sides of the cpu).. the i/o panel could be offset to one side then the four dimms on a single board which is removable via a single hatch on the bottom.
right.. i talked about that in another thread a month or two ago.. looks like four torx head screws hold the i/o in place.. doesn't really appear to be a 'surgical procedure' to remove it.
that's what i meant when i said in the post before about the cpu having an intermediate step in order to access
dunno, there's not really much more i can say before i just start repeating everything i've already said.. it doesn't even matter at this point.. the thing is already designed and everything we're arguing about has already been determined a long time ago.. we'll know for sure soon enough.
They do if they want this shape at this scale. Usually DIMMs are in a horizontal, rectangular pattern immediate adjancent to the CPU. Relatively narrowly enclosed by a circle there is no room for rectangular DIMM farm next to CPU here.
The device rotates!!! The bottom is detached. It is also where the airflow is. There is nothing likely there but a primarily passive backplane plus whatever they are using for a 'turntable'. The bottom also both too far away and not particularly cooled (if add another downward facing section) .
Going through layers of a systems to get to someplace is like surgery. The whole spin of "it is just screwdrivers" is right up there with "it is just knives and saws". Getting hung up on the types of screws and the screwdriver common availability is missing the point. There is no intention in this design for Bubba Gump to pick up his trusty screwdriver and have at it.
There are screws so it can be properly serviced, but it is far from commonly encouraging teardowns.
I'm not talking about alternative designs. Nor am I particularly arguing. I pointing out the features of what is there (there are four holes in the thermal core faces ).
In fact, it probably is necessary to arrange them on the two sides.
Every socket 2011 motherboard I've seen has the DIMM slots on two sides - here's the z820 mobo:
(click to enlarge)
I suspect that the pin-outs on the socket have two memory channels on one side, and the other two on the opposite side.
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for clarity, i'm not trying to say this new design is incredibly user friendly on the inside.. it's still going to take a somewhat tech minded person to get in there and swap parts..
what i am saying is that compared to the past mac pro (which is supposedly so upgradable and serviceable) this one looks equally or less difficult to work on..
A page back you were stating that grade schoolers would take a look and start dismantling it. Pick a tactic and stick to it. You are all over the map.
ha.. yeah.. i see that.
i don't know.. it's not like i need to 'win' this argument or that there's even anything to win anyway.. i'm not even someone that generally modifies/customizes my computers very often (as in, i wouldn't care if this thing was actually locked down other than what happens if a part breaks)
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right, that's exactly what i said.
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I'm sure grade schoolers could take it apart, but A) could they put it back together and B) will it work once put back together.
At the moment it certainly looks possible to swap things out yourself at a similar difficulty to any other machine, but will it possible practically speaking. Meaning can you actually buy replacement/upgrade GPUs? Can the user access the CPU? As you mentioned in the other thread, if you upgrade the GPUs is the PSU still enough or does that need to be upgraded too?
Either way, I think its pretty clear you're not buying much of this stuff, aside from RAM, from NewEgg and plugging it in to the Mac Pro. Its going to be from Apple or maybe OWC and that's likely about it. So it will almost certainly be expensive as hell.
Now it requires a "somewhat tech minded person"
Guess you forgot.
See that thing you're all over? It's called a map.
what, you think it's hard to figure out the game you're always trying to play? the circular argument game..
It's not hard to figure out what I'm saying in this thread.. I'm positive most people understand what I'm saying regardless of whether or not they agree with me. you don't understand it because you're not trying to on purpose.. from past experience with people like you, I know it's 100% worthless to try to further explain myself because I realize that's exactly opposite of your intent.. you don't want to understand me.. you want to argue in circles.
gonna have to employ the JADE technique in any further discussions with you.. that being- i won't justify, argue, defend, or explain anything I say.. it's pretty much the only way to stop a circular argument other than outright ignoring.
meh, yeah.. I take it you also don't care at all about what I'm saying but find it important to critique how I'm saying it.
here->
Q: is the new Mac Pro upgradable and user serviceable?
A: Yes
¿comprende?
i'm sure it will be.
hopefully it's cheaper than dropping it off at the shop for repairs though.. plus, if a part goes at a bad time, you can get it working again within an hour as opposed to it being somewhere else for a few days.
(not saying anything new here.. just repeating the way it's been for at least the past 5 years.)
We heard you, we understand you and we are telling you that you are wrong...
And we are telling you that it isn't USER upgradable or seviceable BY DESIGN since you most likely won't be able to get the after market parts to do it in the first place, beside the flash drive and ram.
Mac Pro achieved a Gold rating from EPEAT
Thought you would all enjoy this…
Mac Pro achieved a Gold rating from EPEAT in the U.S. and Canada.
http://ww2.epeat.net/ProductDisplay...ting=3&ProductType=1&epeatcountryid=6&stdid=1
http://ww2.epeat.net/criteriadisplay.aspx?productid=11244&category=4
Apple Mac Pro (Z0P8) - Desktops
Product longevity/life cycle extension
Meets Criterion
So the big thing here would be that the Optional criteria was included, to what extent though... tic-toc-tic-toc
Thought you would all enjoy this…
Mac Pro achieved a Gold rating from EPEAT in the U.S. and Canada.
http://ww2.epeat.net/ProductDisplay...ting=3&ProductType=1&epeatcountryid=6&stdid=1
http://ww2.epeat.net/criteriadisplay.aspx?productid=11244&category=4
Apple Mac Pro (Z0P8) - Desktops
Product longevity/life cycle extension
Meets Criterion
- YES Required 4.4.1.1 Availability of additional three year warranty or service agreement
- YES Required 4.4.2.1 Upgradeable with common tools
- YES Optional 4.4.2.2 Modular design
- YES Optional 4.4.3.1 Availability of replacement parts
So the big thing here would be that the Optional criteria was included, to what extent though... tic-toc-tic-toc
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i get that part and it's obvious most people around here think i'm fos or whatever.. that's fine
it's the word games that some people choose to play as an attempt to save face which is annoying.. as in- when this thing is released and it's shown to be upgradeable etc, i'll still have been wrong all along if a few of these guys have anything to say about it.. you'll see.
4.4.2.1 and 4.4.3.1 are not indicative of part availability to third party. Just that the pieces aren't glued or and have to be scrapped when replaced by the apple tech. In short, yes you can remove the board with common tool and those board can be repaired, but since Apple is the sole manuf of those board and replacement part you won't be able to go out and buy one to do it yourself.
All this is just saying that Apple can replace or repare it with common tools and that THEY have the part to do it...
compared to other mac computers on that list, i think their criteria is lacking as far as what we're talking about in the thread..
for instance, the 13" mbp received the same positive ratings in those categories.
You're the one trying to play word game to get out of the situation you put yourself in.
The only thing that are upgradable is the RAM and the SSD and the later is not a sure thing, it all depend on which connector they used.
To be upgradable, or more precisely user upgradable, there has to be third party source for those part. If there isn't one and if Apple is the only one then it isn't user upgradable since you'll have to beg and pay Apple to do it.
So what is the situation with the nMP in regard to 3rd party parts:
1- Only Apple use that GPU form factor and only in one model of a tiny market. You won't seee Asus, MSI, eVGA or Gigabyte releasing aftermarket GPU for the nMP. So no USER upgradable video card.
2- Apple already use non standard connector on their SSD on the rMBP and MBA. If they do on the nMP also then you'll also be restricted to one or maybe two 3rd party aftermarket supplier and you'll pay dearly for them.
In other word, why don't you just admit to yourself that you were wrong and move on. Stop trying to turn this around, you are just digging a bigger hole...
that's moving the goal posts quite a bit as well as introducing a circular argument.. half the reasoning i give in the thread as to why this thing is upgradeable is that apple stands to make a boatload of money selling parts..
your argument towards me is "you said apple is going to make a whole bunch of money selling upgrades but, since apple is going to be in control of selling upgrades, you are wrong!" ..it makes zero sense.. sorry
you're saying nothing along the lines of why or why not the new mac is designed to be upgradeable or user serviceable which is what this topic is about (or, at least that's the part i personally am involved with the thread)
the topic of who sells the parts after it's more widely known that the machine is serviceable is a different topic and one that you all will continue to argue about in the coming years..
and i can see already how silly those arguments are going to be-- somehow this ->
..is not an upgrade because even though it's a third party part (amd), apple sells it therefore it's not a 'real' upgrade :roll eyes:
.
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Amusing discussion.
Compared to the old Mac Pro, I see a major advantage in the structure of this new beast : it will be much lighter to carry to the Apple store !
Compared to the old Mac Pro, I see a major advantage in the structure of this new beast : it will be much lighter to carry to the Apple store !
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