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New Macbook - no Firewire!

After months of waiting, I'm totally completely disappointed by the new Macbook and MacBook Pro.

Simply out, the new design focuses too much on look and form, while seriously lacking in substance.

The lack of firewire port on the Macbook simply makes it useless to me. I am a media artist and need to work with different type of camcorders all the time. Most of them capture through firewire. I know some may argue that there are many camcorders with USB out there, but it is still a minority, and they are mostly consumer models that shoots on MPEG2. I will certainly not buy a new camcorder to use with the new MacBook. Plus I need to work with different camcorder when I work with different companies and in different projects.

And the lack of express card in MacBook is always lame. I work with panasonic P2 cards and Sony SxS media cards all the time, and an express card slot is essential. I don't mind paying extra for a MacBook Pro to do that, but I don't need the extra size of a 15-inch machine. Who says professionals want BIG computers? Can you imagine how much a burden it is to drag a 15-inch machine when you are out shooting documentary in a lone-wolf gun-and-run fashion? Many smaller PC laptops have the slot. Why can't Apple make one?


Ultimately, nobody wants to WORK AROUND a laptop. I want a laptop that is flexible and capable enough that it can do what I want it to do.

Buying a laptop is like hiring an assistant for my work. I want to hire one that 1) gets the job done, 2) present when I need it - meaning portability for laptop, 3) fast, 4) looks good next to me. Getting jobs done comes first. Looking good is bonus. I choose to use Mac OS for the same reasons. But the new Macbook focuses on #4 too much and fails #1 miserably. And now I need to buy the Macbook Pro and sacrifice portability.

Apple, I don't mind spending a little more to buy what I want. Are you capable of providing that to me? I believe you do. But I think you just don't care.
 
I was going to convert from PC to Mac and god help me, I was excited about it!.. but firewire is a MUST HAVE... My PC is on the way out and its not gonna last much longer.. now i've got no idea what to do I'm at a crossroads, do i pay pretty much top dollar for the previous model and get outdated technology? or do i do exactly what the bloody bastards want and splash out for a macbook pro (which frankly i cant afford)
 
Flan said:
I was going to convert from PC to Mac and god help me, I was excited about it!.. but firewire is a MUST HAVE... My PC is on the way out and its not gonna last much longer.. now i've got no idea what to do I'm at a crossroads, do i pay pretty much top dollar for the previous model and get outdated technology? or do i do exactly what the bloody bastards want and splash out for a macbook pro (which frankly i cant afford)
Click to expand...

Buy refurb MacBook Pro.

Currently starting at $1349 but they come and go.

store.apple.com
Look for: Refurbished Mac
 
Slightly off topic, but now the MacBook has no FireWire, how does Migration Assistant work? I don't know about anyone else, but I've found this utility invaluable when upgrading from one Mac to another.
 
thread split

hey, here's a brilliant idea.

let's split this thread into two threads, make them impossible to read except in a dark closet, and ban half the users from one of them.
 
jackcklam said:
Ultimately, nobody wants to WORK AROUND a laptop. I want a laptop that is flexible and capable enough that it can do what I want it to do.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

Remember what the big myths were about Apple computers? Remember this one: "they don't work with anything!"

I prove that one false all the time with my current machine. Walk into a conference room and people say "errrr, that's a Mac, I don't know if this projector will work..." and I say "Watch me!" And of course it works fine, even though the guy with the Dell's been trying to adjust his settings for the past few minutes.

I love that my Mac is so flexible! DV cameras, USB cameras, any digital camera, I can work with them all! "Errr... but don't you need drivers?", the PC users say. "No! The Mac just works!", I proudly declare. And it does!

Now imagine me walking into that presentation room with the new MacBook. "Oh, a VGA port? Hmm, I'll need to find my DisplayPort adapter dongle..." "You want me to capture video from that miniDV camcorder? Uh, I can't, I don't have Firewire..."

What are my colleagues going to think? "Geez, Macs don't work with anything!"
 
2jaded2care said:
No FireWire on new MBs. No FireWire 3200 on new MBPs. No Blu-Ray. No HDMI (except AppleTV)... No thanks.

Form elevated over function.
Click to expand...

Maybe when Apple is ready to add FW 3200 to the MBP they will feel there is enough distinction to put FW 400 (or even FW 800) back onto the MacBook (I would have thought the FW 400 vs FW 800 and ExpressCard was already a distinction.) That is the only hope left for the MacBook.

My wife has an old Dell laptop that finally stopped responding to some of the keys on the keyboard and I thought it would be a good time to get a Mac laptop that wouldn't become obsolete like our Mini will when Snow Leopard comes out and that would connect to our Canon HV20. Lack of FW killed that idea. The rumored $800 MacBook turning out to be $1299 had probably already killed it anyway.

Maybe I should take the fact that the Dell's keyboard started working again as a sign that it is not time to retire our last Windows box after all.
 
jzuena said:
My wife has an old Dell laptop that finally stopped responding to some of the keys on the keyboard and I thought it would be a good time to get a Mac laptop that wouldn't become obsolete like our Mini will when Snow Leopard comes out and that would connect to our Canon HV20. Lack of FW killed that idea. The rumored $800 MacBook turning out to be $1299 had probably already killed it anyway.
Click to expand...

Why not buy the white MacBook, with SuperDrive, for $999? It may not have the fancy aluminum shell but it's still a great machine.

Or buy a refurbed previous-generation MacBook Pro, and save hundreds. :)
 
That sucks. I was waiting for the new Macbooks too, but firewire is absolutely essential to me.

Guess I'll just hold on to my old Macbook a little longer.

Anybody know if I can install OSX on a Intel based windows laptop? I love the mac OS but gotta have firewire.
 
I was seriously considering getting a new MacBook when they were announced as a cheaper alternative to the Mac Pro I recently sold. I have had to save some extra money to pay upcoming expenses and figured the MacBook would be fine for my needs. I use a Panasonic PV-GS180 and FCE to do videos for my blog... nothing major by any means. Now, in order to go with an Apple portable compatible with my DV camera, I would have to go with the $2K MacBook Pro. Give me a break!

All I want is to be able to use my current hardware. Also, there are some people out there with 5.1 or 7.1 speaker setups using an external firewire sound card as well. I guess now they are stuck with 2.1 audio since the MacBook doesn't have an express card slot either. Very poor decision by Apple in my book. Back to using my Thinkpad T61 (with firewire) as my primary machine with Premiere Pro CS3 for now. There is simply no way I'm spending 2K just to have firewire capability. What I need a firewire port is by no means professional in nature so I should not have to pay the premium for the pro level product.
 
So yeah, I'm currently a PC user. I was ready to purchase a MacBook as of today. But then I noticed, no Firewire. So now I'm back on Dell's website configuring a system.

What I wanted in a system was a decent video card to play games (I would have Bootcamped for that) and a Firewire port to do basic editing of home movies. I could just get a clearance Macbook Pro, but I dunno. It's just such a let down to be so excited to shell out $1500, and then have Apple skimp on a $5 part.

I've got a four year old laptop right now, so I need to upgrade. I've been waiting all summer for these Macbooks to come out, and now, shafted. I mean, it's really hard for me to describe how disappointed Apple has made me. I was as excited as a kid in a candy store, and now I get to be a PC. At least Dell doesn't skimp on a 1394a port. I guess this is what they mean by "Think Different."
 
notjustjay said:
Unfortunately it looks like Apple thinks traditional, Firewire-based miniDV cameras are on their way out.

A lot of people are using hard-drive based camcorders, or solid state media (e.g. the video recording mode of your digital camera). Perhaps more people are using those than are using miniDV.

Perhaps they're trying to be ahead of the curve and declare that DV over Firewire is obsolete technology. Just like they eliminated floppy drives, and said "soon nobody will use them" -- true, but in the meantime everyone who had data on floppies complained, before ultimately buying into other formats.

Perhaps Apple is willing to risk lost sales on the prediction that soon all of us who use DV/Firewire will soon be purchasing solid-state or disk-based HD cameras.
Click to expand...

Yes and No. If you think about it-so most people are going away from miniDV cameras but its not like they only make a new mac once ever 5 years. MiniDV will still be around for at least 5 years, if not more and my guess is that there will be a new MacBook within 6 months. I mean think, you know how often some new mac comes out!!!:apple:
 
They want more money!!

the only reason they did not put a firewire on the new MacBook is because they want more money. They know that most people that use firewire are not smart enough to go and look for an adapter. Instead they just will spend the extra money and buy the pro because it has the firewire!:eek::(:eek::(
 
DarrenSW said:
Slightly off topic, but now the MacBook has no FireWire, how does Migration Assistant work? I don't know about anyone else, but I've found this utility invaluable when upgrading from one Mac to another.
Click to expand...

Haven't tested it myself, but I believe you can use ethernet via a corssover/patch cable.
 
notjustjay said:
(1)Why not buy the white MacBook, with SuperDrive, for $999? It may not have the fancy aluminum shell but it's still a great machine.

(2)Or buy a refurbed previous-generation MacBook Pro, and save hundreds. :)
Click to expand...

1 is a fail. I'm sure the person wants the 5x faster graphics power of the new nvidia chipset, not the old intel integrated video.

2. How is it saving hundreds if you thought of doing choice 1 at first?? :p
 
What is the deal with FireWire?!? It operates at 400mbps on either 400 or 800. You actually get the 800mbps when you have a raid setup. USB 2.0 is 480mbps and is more compatible with today's tech, like peripherals. I have yet to see a device that operates solely on FireWire with no alternatives and is very crucial to your workflow.
 
SnowLeopard2008 said:
What is the deal with FireWire?!? It operates at 400mbps on either 400 or 800. You actually get the 800mbps when you have a raid setup. USB 2.0 is 480mbps and is more compatible with today's tech, like peripherals. I have yet to see a device that operates solely on FireWire with no alternatives and is very crucial to your workflow.
Click to expand...

Let start with this and will move on to all the miniDV cams

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/duende/Mini/index.asp

Just because you don't use it does not mean others don't.
 
SnowLeopard2008 said:
What is the deal with FireWire?!? It operates at 400mbps on either 400 or 800. You actually get the 800mbps when you have a raid setup. USB 2.0 is 480mbps and is more compatible with today's tech, like peripherals. I have yet to see a device that operates solely on FireWire with no alternatives and is very crucial to your workflow.
Click to expand...

USB is still too whimpy for audio/video work. USB 2.0 is actually still slower than Firewire as far as real-world data speed and transfer...

http://www.directron.com/firewirevsusb.html
 
SnowLeopard2008 said:
What is the deal with FireWire?!? It operates at 400mbps on either 400 or 800. You actually get the 800mbps when you have a raid setup. USB 2.0 is 480mbps and is more compatible with today's tech, like peripherals. I have yet to see a device that operates solely on FireWire with no alternatives and is very crucial to your workflow.
Click to expand...

shenanigans...

480mbps is the burst rate for USB 2.0, the sustained transfer rate (what video editing requires) is MUCH MUCH lower. 400mbps for FW is the sustained transfer rate.

FW>USB for video and anyone that tries to argue otherwise is misinformed and/or dumb.
 
SnowLeopard2008 said:
What is the deal with FireWire?!? It operates at 400mbps on either 400 or 800. You actually get the 800mbps when you have a raid setup. USB 2.0 is 480mbps and is more compatible with today's tech, like peripherals. I have yet to see a device that operates solely on FireWire with no alternatives and is very crucial to your workflow.
Click to expand...

The DEAL is this: USB transfers data in packets (short bursts) while Firewire transfers data in a sustained stream. If using USB for capturing and editing, FCE/FCP can often see the gap between the short bursts of data as dropped frames.

The DEAL is also this: Many, many Mac users have perfectly good camcorders, VTRs and/or converters that only have a Firewire connection. And many have external Firewire hard drives that don't have a USB port. Add to that the numerous Mac owners that do audio work and own FW only peripherals and interface devices. Few, if any of these current Mac users will purchase any Mac that doesn't have Firewire capability. And apparently Apple's intention is to no longer support these customers in some of their products.

In my own case, I own 2 DVCam VTRs that cost over $3500.00 each, two DVCam camcorders that cost over $8500.00 each, a Firestore DTE recorder that cost roughly $1500.00, a FW capable DVD recorder ($450.00) and four external FW drives with no USB ports ($250.00 each). The total cost on all my Firewire only gear is about $26,950.00.

This equipment and my two Macs are used to earn my living. If Apple continues this path with their other computers, I highly doubt that anyone with a substantial investment in Firewire equipped gear would consider purchasing a Mac.

Dropping Firewire from the MacBook was an incredibly stupid move on Apple's part. It saves them a minuscule amount in manufacturing costs while essentially guaranteeing that fewer people will purchase that product.

That's the DEAL.

-DH
 
That's what I love about Macrumors forums. Reasoned debate conducted on reasonable terms.

While I see your point, DH, and sympathise, don't you think it's exceedingly unlikely that Apple would abandon FW support on higher-specced machines than the Macbook, for just the reason that you cite, namely "that [no one] with a substantial investment in Firewire equipped gear would consider purchasing a Mac"?

There were rumours abut SJ's health doing the rounds, but none of them mentioned a decline in mental health . . .

EDIT: I wrote that ^^ before I read this >> https://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/17/steve-jobs-on-lack-of-firewire-in-macbooks/
What the . . . ?
 
Yoursh said:
Haven't tested it myself, but I believe you can use ethernet via a corssover/patch cable.
Click to expand...

Newer Macs don't require a crossover cable anymore. Apparently they can detect and use a regular Cat 5 ethernet cable to do the job.
I used to use a crossover cable a lot before IEEE 1394, especially with my first iMac to backup data to a CD RW in a G3 9500.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2274
 
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