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New MacBook Pro Models Include HDMI 2.0 Port Instead of HDMI 2.1
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Thanks for clearing that up - the post you responded to stopped me in my tracks.
Well we do have the 20 and 40 CPU core '"M1 MEGA MAX" coming in mid-to-late 2022 per Bloomberg (JadeC-2Die and JadeC-4Die) though I expect those will be a Mac Pro only option...
I don't know how easy it is to add PCIe lanes to an Apple Silicon SoC, but that is what they will need to do to add more TB ports.
I would expect the primary purpose is to connect a second monitor or a television and it would support 120Hz refresh (assuming the monitor/ television do). You can get 120Hz @ 4K using the TB ports if you must have that.
Yes.
He did the calculation for full spec machine coning to a more or less grand sum of a whopping 6k.
With a 2.0 HDMI port!!! When I see Apple skimp on sth I think of Tim smirking!!! 😏
He already responded back with that and I responded again to say that was obviously just him being dramatic then, as the ports are part of the base price, not a "maxed out" build.
So you think of all the things they could have saved money on, they focused on the HDMI port? I don't think so. Others have already suggested FAR more logical reasons for this. Just read through the thread.
It is called Pro. They talked all over today this is the most amazing MacBook ever built. And they still downgraded the HDMI port? I don’t care for it but it speaks how stupid and greedy Apple has become. You don’t see Porsche launching the new 911 model with an improved PDK and downgrade the headlights to halogen just because they wanted to piss off customers. If this is top of line it should come with all top of line options.
Yeah I was really surprised that with the new camera and notch, no Center Stage was mentioned. That just seemed like a natural add to me considering other products have it. I think this is the single thing that annoys me the most about Apple...that they don’t always release new features like Centerstage across all devices of the same category. Shouldn't ALL the pro level products have it???
Anyone know how to get 120hz HDR 444 to a TV via HDMI 2.1 on these things? Have been waiting for these computers for a year so that I could use my LG OLED monitor properly. Turns out they are no better than the Macbook Air in this regard...
Tempted to cancel the order and just beef up my PC for at home use - losing faith in Apple on this. Can tell everyone at Apple just uses those $5k displays that can't even do 120hz. Silly
At first, I hated the lack of ports. But now I appreciate the 4 TB ports to do as you please. Dongles suck, but they are flexible.
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Chances are they had a budget and decided the mix of features was what would sway the most people to buy the product at the price they are offering it for. If they had spent the silicon on a dedicated hdmi 2.1 port, they would have to downgrade something else.
HDMI 2.0 doesn’t handle HDR either. The spec is from 2013. Why not throw in a 30-pin connector while you’re at it…
Grossly oversimplified analogy, and--again--read through the thread, as there are some educational, non-knee-jerk posts that give far more rational explanations for this "limitation" compared to your ridiculous one expressed just now (Apple saying, "let's just piss off our customers" 🙄). I doubt many pros would be using HDMI for 4k 120Hz anyway - they'll use the TB ports instead.
HDMI 2.0 does support HDR at 4K, but depending on the frame rate and bit depth you may have to use chroma subsampling (4:2:2 or 4:2:0) to stay within the maximum bitrate of 18 Gbps.
Ok…HDMI 2.0 spec is from 2013. There were 2.0a (2015) and 2.0b (2016) updates. HDMI 2.1 was 2017…4 years ago. Real explanation probably is 4K resolution at 120Hz (which HDMI 2.1 supports) would probably kill the battery life. Think about it. ProMotion isn’t 120Hz all the time. It’s dynamic. The cable spec supports 10K at 120Hz. Imagine hooking up to a future monitor and what that would do to battery life.
Bandwidth and die space issue probably yes. The rest of this is a mess.....
No. Probably not. There are only two E cores here in part to save space. Same thing for Thunderbolt. If there are only 3 TB ports then there are likely only three TB controllers. ( since Apple went with the new Intel methodology of going 1:1 ratio when provisioning inside the CPU package. ).
A TB controller that never touching any external TB device is a waste of space. Apple doesn't have space to waste here.
TB and PCI-e are two different things. Si is DisplayPort. There is ZERO need for PCI-e to product a DisplayPort stream. None.
There is likely either a fourth DisplayPort (DP) stream that drives the HDMI port or there is a "shared" DisplayPort stream that is shared from the input from one of the TB controllers ( that provisions that single port on right side) . For the M1 Max it is probably the former. For the M1 Pro it is probably the latter. ( one contributing reason why the M1 Pro would come up short on driving external displays).
I didn't see any support knowledgebase tech document on the MBP 14"/16" to outlines the complete combo of external monitor support but if find something like have to hook one 6K monitor to "left side" and second to "right side" for the M1 Pro ... that is indicative of a bandwidth issue.
There is likely a DP to HDMI conversion chip that provisions the HDMI port directly. ( absolutely zero need to roundabout through Thunderbolt complex at all. ). Just doing DP is way simpler and far more cost effective to buy a standard HDMI 2.0b converter. The other way would be for Apple to build their own converter on die and pump the HDMI straight out. If on-die convert then once again simpler and saved die space just to do HDMI 2.0b
Capping at 4K puts a lower load on the display controller subsystem. Remember these are also tasked with driving the embedded displays and multiple external screens on the other TB ports.
The M1 is display controller bandwidth limited . So it isn't particularly surprising that the M1 Pro would also be. It has a higher threshold but still capped versus a full fledge mid-high end , add-in , desktop card.
The M1 SoC has three x1 PCI-e v4 lanes. ( one drives the 10GbE socket on the M1 Mini. ). There is absolutely zero need for TB here. The SD card can be just driven by the same PCI-e lane that would drive the Ethernet port if Apple hand not completely kicked that off the laptop.
Thunderbolt for an internal SD-Card is just a Rube Goldberg contraption that is completely unnecessary. If Apple needs a USB hub ( for Type A ports on other systems ) , Ethernet , or SD-Card there is zero need for Thunderbolt to be in the loop at all. None.
Nope. Base reason is same reason why M1 Pro is capped at two 6K monitors. Display controller subsystem runs out of steam. With three TB v4 ports and DP v1.4 (and compression) should be able to get three, but M1 Pro comes up short.
There is no good reason to loop TBv4 into the mix here. If TBv4 is "too slow" just bypass it and go straight out. This is misdirection from the display controller(s).
A substantive contributor here is using LPDDR5 for the VRAM. Apple is haning a "ton" of execution units off the LPDDR5. Display controller workload isn't gong to cache well ( with the same policies the CPU and compute oriented GPU cores desire ). That's why the M1 ran into a wall of supported number of displays ( 8 channels of LPDDR4). Apple adds more memory channels and goes to LPDDR5 but that is just getting them to getting Thunderbolt v4 qualified ( DP on each external port ) and supporting more 6K monitors. There is nothing left (bandwidth wise ) for a fancy HDMI 2.1 resolutions.
Not really. I strongly suspect Apple was happier stopping at TB controller 3 and throwing transistor budget at rounding out something else ( e.g., ProRes de/encoder )
Once down to three ports how to make folks happy with just three. Toss in a MagSafe ( since one port usually 'covered' by USB port cord. Some folks "dock" but many do not. ) and basically have the same three had most configurations had anyway. With the empty side panel space can drop in the HDMI port that folks complain about. ( meeting room projectors. , 4K TV reference monitor , etc. ) .... not super duper bleeding edge gaming monitor. )
No 10GbE Ethernet .... opens door for SD-card. It is unused bandwidth likely already there. ( won't be surprising if iMac large doesn't have a SD-card if uses the M1 Pro or Max. ). Apple brought back some legacy stuff but still wireless when it comes to Ethernet ( pointing to implied usage of docks to get that ).
P.S. with USB4 ( and TB4 ) there are USB4 docks that can provide port multiplication. If need some mundane type c TBv3 (or v4) dongles can just add more ports too.
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My “legacy port” is not cutting edge. Wahhh!
FaceID doesn’t have go in the lid. They may want to if they want to use the LiDAR for other things, but FaceID sensors could easily go in the body above the function keys. Would work no differently than it doesn’t on your phone while flat on the table.
Apple: "PowerPoint, is that like Keynote or something?"
Which is badly (I believe you saying "doesn't" instead of "does" there was a Freudian slip, lol!). I don't think I'd want to have to stand up and lean my head over the keyboard to look into an upward-facing FaceID sensor to use FaceID on a Mac.
It’s embarrassing to see the fanboys excuse this when 20 years ago Apple were shipping bleeding edge ports on their Pro machines.
And yet now they cannot amend designs in process or we’re supposed to believe 2.1 is sooo much more expensive?
Honestly. The depths some people go to defend this nickel and diming.
… But there's pro 4K@120hz monitors with 1000-nit sustained brightness and 1600 peak nits that are superior in many ways to the the Pro Display XDR (that I own) that uses HDMI 2.1 like the PA32UCG (something that I also own).
It is not great in 2021, Apple is releasing a laptop with HDMI 2.0 when HDMI 2.1 is associated with some of the most technical and advanced panels in the mainstream world to watch cinema and be productive with that uses faster bandwidth than what Thunderbolt 3/4 t can support hat HDMI 2.1 instead can.
The function of all the ports should ideally always be able to output the peak refresh rate of the laptop which is 120hz to easily communicate ideas.
it's clear to me they're waiting till later years that'll also maybe allow them to use full USB4 + account for Displayport 2.0. Full USB4 supports 16K; HDMI 2.1 supports more bandwidth than TB 3 & 4.
The I/O support matrix to better appease pros other than dongle-haters/IO-tech-illierates should hopefully be the following:
* Three-Four USB4 ports
* CF Express Card or UHS-II SD Card
* HDMI 2.1 port
* High-Impedance headphone Jack
This HDMI 2.0 limitation and a notch without FaceID are definitely disappointing enough to hold off immediate buying. I'm personally gonna hold off on buying one for personal use; glad I can "trial" this redesign as my Macbook Pro for work next year.
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Any idea how this is being handled? I mean, these chips give the OS a higher concurrency ceiling, but the applications have to be written in such a way to spawn threads that can actually run on these cores.
Not all applications are heavily multithreaded, seems like they are really banking on multicore performance with these chips.
Also do you know why only 10 CPU cores but 32+ GPU cores?