New Microsoft Ad Campaign Targets Mac Prices

[MH01]

But errors in claims about Mac OS X you let slide, huh?

In relation to this thread, no one has actually criticized OS X. The criticism is aimed towards pricing. Unlike some ranting from other contributors, AidenShaw has actually responded in a calm and articulated manner. Some of the statements used towards PC and Vista are complete BS!!! I would wage most of these people do not even use Vista.

 

[AidenShaw]

But errors in claims about Mac OS X you let slide, huh?

OSX isn't an area of expertise, so I'm less likely to spot them. I have corrected a few, though.

I am sure that you are aware that most apple users know the rights and wrongs of apple, windows etc. They do not be informed by your lot.

If they are making factual errors, obviously they could benefit from better information.

 

[MH01]

In regards to telling PC users to get lost from this site......

Anyone who posts or reads this site, is a member of this community

SO do we want this site to have some credibility? I used to actively participate in Appleinsider and macrumors, I no longer visit appleinsider cause it lost all its credibility, and this has stemmed from the actual editors writing total illinformed crap, great for one eyed blind mac followers but insulting to anyone working in the IT industry. The great thing about Macrumours is that it has good editorial standards and well informed users. I think AidenShaw brings a balance to this site, and so needed to offset the usual BS about how crap Vista is or how a PC dies after 2 months etc. Instead of telling them to get lost, people here should listen and learn a thing or two.

From my experience, too many mac "switchers" hide their IT shortcoming by blaming a PC OS for hardware failures, action or inaction on thier part to install the correct drivers or incorrect etc. I still cannot believe how many people here do not know the difference between Applecare (a warranty) and insurance, sick of damn posts about people dropping their new Unibody and how they are going to visit apple and try to get it fixed under Applecare...!!!

What rational individual blames microsoft when a HD in their PC fails and that HD is made by Western Digital. An ill-informed user, and they are the first to post in these forums how Crap vista is....owww it killed my computer!!!! etc etc. Apple is perfect for these users, Cause Apple care just what they need.... No analysis, no thinking involved, just drop off the laptop and wait for a phone call that it is fixed. (though their problem is no less retarded in nature then a PC users, its just that Apple customer care will treat you like a god no matter how stupid you are) We need more rational posters here, education is a good thing.

If we are to get rid of windows "defenders" off this site, also ditch the tech clueless that lower the credibility of the site by posting total ill informed BS, and if they are going to quite wiki....read the damn article!!!!

Frankly you need a balance of both.

 

[polaris20]

In regards to telling PC users to get lost from this site......

Anyone who posts or reads this site, is a member of this community

SO do we want this site to have some credibility? I used to actively participate in Appleinsider and macrumors, I no longer visit appleinsider cause it lost all its credibility, and this has stemmed from the actual editors writing total illinformed crap, great for one eyed blind mac followers but insulting to anyone working in the IT industry. The great thing about Macrumours is that it has good editorial standards and well informed users. I think AidenShaw brings a balance to this site, and so needed to offset the usual BS about how crap Vista is or how a PC dies after 2 months etc. Instead of telling them to get lost, people here should listen and learn a thing or two.

From my experience, too many mac "switchers" hide their IT shortcoming by blaming a PC OS for hardware failures, action or inaction on thier part to install the correct drivers or incorrect etc. I still cannot believe how many people here do not know the difference between Applecare (a warranty) and insurance, sick of damn posts about people dropping their new Unibody and how they are going to visit apple and try to get it fixed under Applecare...!!!

What rational individual blames microsoft when a HD in their PC fails and that HD is made by Western Digital. An ill-informed user, and they are the first to post in these forums how Crap vista is....owww it killed my computer!!!! etc etc. Apple is perfect for these users, Cause Apple care just what they need.... No analysis, no thinking involved, just drop off the laptop and wait for a phone call that it is fixed. (though their problem is no less retarded in nature then a PC users, its just that Apple customer care will treat you like a god no matter how stupid you are) We need more rational posters here, education is a good thing.

If we are to get rid of windows "defenders" off this site, also ditch the tech clueless that lower the credibility of the site by posting total ill informed BS, and if they are going to quite wiki....read the damn article!!!!

Frankly you need a balance of both.

There's a difference between knowledgeable legitimate Windows users here, and complete utter trolls that spew nonsense in Windows' favor just as much as the Mac fanboys spew about Macs and OS X.

While I don't quite get what enjoyment purely Windows users get out of coming here, if they enjoy the conversation and have something constructive to say, by all means, stick around.

But if they're going to make outlandish claims like "Me wasn't a bad OS", "OS X crashes constantly on my computer, therefore OS X in general is horrible" that's when there's a problem.

Aiden is not one of those people, so I don't have a problem. Whitefang, on the other hand strikes me as someone who just wishes to lash out at Apple, and grabs straws when attempting to say why Windows is "better".

 

[whitefang]

There's a difference between knowledgeable legitimate Windows users here, and complete utter trolls that spew nonsense in Windows' favor just as much as the Mac fanboys spew about Macs and OS X.

While I don't quite get what enjoyment purely Windows users get out of coming here, if they enjoy the conversation and have something constructive to say, by all means, stick around.

But if they're going to make outlandish claims like "Me wasn't a bad OS", "OS X crashes constantly on my computer, therefore OS X in general is horrible" that's when there's a problem.

Aiden is not one of those people, so I don't have a problem. Whitefang, on the other hand strikes me as someone who just wishes to lash out at Apple, and grabs straws when attempting to say why Windows is "better".

What about the apple users that make outlandish claims? What about that guy that said Apple never directly references Vista in their commercials?

 

[BongoBanger]

What about the apple users that make outlandish claims? What about that guy that said Apple never directly references Vista in their commercials?

Granted, but how does that excuse your behaviour?

 

[whitefang]

Granted, but how does that excuse your behaviour?

And what claims did I make?

 

[gathart]

If they are making factual errors, obviously they could benefit from better information.

Bit paternalising, don't you think? They are smart and intelligent enough to make those decisions themself i think. This is argueing for arguement sake. As you are probably well aware there are legio debating forums here you can ''hone'' your skills. Not to mention debating clubs at uni's.

 

[polaris20]

What about the apple users that make outlandish claims? What about that guy that said Apple never directly references Vista in their commercials?

So it's okay to make outlandish claims because someone else did? If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?

I think this thread proves there are ridiculous statements being made on both sides of the OS fence. Thanks for contributing.

 

[MH01]

Can we all have a group hug.....

 

[whitefang]

So it's okay to make outlandish claims because someone else did? If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?

I think this thread proves there are ridiculous statements being made on both sides of the OS fence. Thanks for contributing.

If you scroll back a couple of pages, you can see all the outlandish claims you posted as well. Take your own advice.

 

[polaris20]

And what claims did I make?

1. Linux is slow. Really? what were your metrics? What distro? What apps?
2. Exchange is the best. Okay, I feel that way too, but why? Why is it better than OpenExchange, Zimbra, Citadel, etc.? Do tell.
3. The Thinkpad is stiffer than the MBP. Really? Have you owned both? I do. It's not stiffer. Oh but hey, I can dump some Evian on it.
4. XCode isn't as good as .Net. Really? How so?

 

[polaris20]

If you scroll back a couple of pages, you can see all the outlandish claims you posted as well. Take your own advice.

Such as? Where are the outlandish claims?

And I also noticed you just joined in March 09. Why would someone that dislikes OS X so much join a Mac site, and start bashing it constantly? Hmmm........troll much?

 

[AidenShaw]

Apple tax is $729 on quad workstation

On the pricing front, Dell's prices are up now on their website, and a Dell workstation similar to the entry Mac Pro is $729 less.

The Dell T3500 quad single socket is $2019, compared to $2748 for a similar MP quad. (Upgraded Dell to same 2.66 GHz Xeon W3520 as MP, 3 GiB RAM, 750 GB disk, cheapest 512 MiB graphics - upgrade Apple with 3 yr AppleCare)

Dell has better
- graphics - Quadro FX 580 vs GeForce GT 120
- disk - 750 GB vs 640
- memory - 1333 MHz vs 1066 MHz
- memory slots - 6 slots for 24 GiB max support with true tri-channel operation
- warranty - 3 yr NBD onsite

Dell is also offering the 3.2 GHz CPU... (not cheap)
_________________

Note that Dell also offers a Core i7 Studio XPS for $799 with similar CPU performance to the $2748 Mac. The Studio XPS is a desktop, rather than workstation, so it doesn't have ECC memory or quite the expandability - but raw CPU/graphics performance is the same.

 

[polaris20]

On the pricing front, Dell's prices are up now on their website, and a Dell workstation similar to the entry Mac Pro is $729 less.

The Dell T3500 quad single socket is $2019, compared to $2748 for a similar MP quad. (Upgraded Dell to same 2.66 GHz Xeon W3520 as MP, 3 GiB RAM, 750 GB disk, cheapest 512 MiB graphics - upgrade Apple with 3 yr AppleCare)

Dell has better
- graphics - Quadro FX 580 vs GeForce GT 120
- disk - 750 GB vs 640
- memory - 1333 MHz vs 1066 MHz
- memory slots - 6 slots for 24 GiB max support with true tri-channel operation
- warranty - 3 yr NBD onsite

Dell is also offering the 3.2 GHz CPU... (not cheap)
_________________

Note that Dell also offers a Core i7 Studio XPS for $799 with similar CPU performance to the $2748 Mac. The Studio XPS is a desktop, rather than workstation, so it doesn't have ECC memory or quite the expandability - but raw CPU/graphics performance is the same.

Ugh, Dell drives me nuts. I just configured it the same as you, and came up with $2200. I think you get different results depending upon if you choose small business, enterprise, etc.

If it's one thing Dell sucks at, it's their website.

EDIT comparing the T5500 to the octo MP, the Dell is less than a $100 cheaper (albeit still with a better graphics card).

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
If they are making factual errors, obviously they could benefit from better information.

Bit paternalising, don't you think? They are smart and intelligent enough to make those decisions themself i think.

"Smart and intelligent enough" to post lies and falsehoods? And it's inappropriate to point out when garbage is posted? Excuse me?

Often it's unintentional - like the thread back a page or so back where someone assumed that the command shell on Vista was the same as the DOS/Win9x shell.

Anyway, thank you for voicing your opinion. Mine is different, however.

 

[whitefang]

1. Linux is slow. Really? what were your metrics? What distro? What apps?
2. Exchange is the best. Okay, I feel that way too, but why? Why is it better than OpenExchange, Zimbra, Citadel, etc.? Do tell.
3. The Thinkpad is stiffer than the MBP. Really? Have you owned both? I do. It's not stiffer. Oh but hey, I can dump some Evian on it.
4. XCode isn't as good as .Net. Really? How so?

1. Ubuntu, and it ran sluggish. It's not just Ubuntu, it's also sluggish with Slackware and Mandrake as well (the gui).
2. I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of Exchange but several IT directors and Technical Engineers have repeatedly said "Exchange is better than the competition".
3. No, I don't own a Thinkpad but my company offers ONLY thinkpads for field work. It can survive a drop test WITHOUT denting. The macbooks can't, they dent easily. Lenovo did a test where they open and close the lid of the thinkpads constantly for the next 6 months, I don't think the macbook would've survived that. There is a reason Thinkpad's are industry standard.
4. Visual Studio smokes XCode. First of all, Visual Studio has REAL intellisense as you type. It has better refactoring and code analysis. You can create a event for a component just by clicking it. In Xcode, you have to go through several property windows just to create an event.
Objective-C is a joke compared to C#. C# has automated properties, dynamic language inquery, refactorings and meta attributes, anonymous methods, and more. Don't forget the fact that C# can be used to develop for the web, windows platform, and the mobile platform.

 

[AidenShaw]

Ugh, Dell drives me nuts. I just configured it the same as you, and came up with $2200. I think you get different results depending upon if you choose small business, enterprise, etc.

If it's one thing Dell sucks at, it's their website.

My quote:

Dell Precision T3500 64bit

Starting Price $2,019
Date 4/1/2009 9:43:24 AM Central Standard Time

Catalog Number / Description Product Code Qty SKU Id

Dell Precision T3500, CMT, Standard Power Supply T3500 1 [224-4422] 1

Genuine Windows Vista® Business Service Pack 1, with media, 64, ENG VB61E 1 [310-8642][420-8954] 11
No Energy Star NOESTAR 1 [330-3201] 25
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® W3520 2.66GHz, 8M L3, 4.8GT/s W3520 1 [317-0125] 2
Mini-Tower Chassis Configuration MT 1 [311-7463] 15
3GB, 1333MHz, DDR3 SDRAM, ECC (3 DIMMS) 3G3E333 1 [317-0116] 3
512MB NVIDIA® Quadro® FX 580, DUAL MON, 2 DP & 1 DVI FX580 1 [320-7893] 6
C1 All SATA drives, No RAID for 1 Hard Drive SATA1 1 [341-8562] 9
Integrated Intel chipset SATA 3.0Gb/s controller NSASCTL 1 [341-9289] 24
750GB SATA 3Gb/s with NCQ and 16MB DataBurst Cache™ 750GS 1 [341-7033] 8
48X/32X CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Cyberlink Power DVD™ COMBO 1 [313-7459][420-9185] 16
No Floppy Drive and No Media Card Reader NFD 1 [341-5255] 10
No Monitor NMN 1 [320-3316] 5
Dell QuietKey Keyboard QUSB 1 [330-3203] 4
Dell USB 2 Button Optical Mouse USBO 1 [330-3945] 12
No Speaker option NSPKR 1 [313-2663] 18
Documentation, English, with 125V Power Cord DOCENG 1 [330-3156][330-3157] 21
No Resource DVD NORCD 1 [330-4024] 27
Shipping Material for System SHIP 1 [330-3209] 40
3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD Onsite Service U3OS 1 [992-8982][993-3080][993-9018][993-9027] 29
No Onsite System Setup NOINSTL 1 [900-9987] 32

 

[whitefang]

Such as? Where are the outlandish claims?

And I also noticed you just joined in March 09. Why would someone that dislikes OS X so much join a Mac site, and start bashing it constantly? Hmmm........troll much?

I recently got a Macbook Pro. It's one of the best machines I've used in terms of quality. And I find OS X is very innovative and contains some really cool features (I especially like the hotspots feature) however it sucks for ANY Business related work.
My macbook pro virtually makes zero noise and produces very little heat, I'm impressed by the quality infact, I've recommended the macbook several times.

What I DO NOT recommend is their ACD monitor. And I didn't bash anyone, I was simply pointing out their mistakes where Windows is concerned.

 

[pr5owner]

That is because you are using an Acer Monitor

thats a work bench monitor, not a primary,

take a wild guess as to why that mac is on a workbench?

 

[polaris20]

1. Ubuntu, and it ran sluggish. It's not just Ubuntu, it's also sluggish with Slackware and Mandrake as well (the gui).

You still haven't answered the question completely. What metrics? What apps? What hardware? I ask because I've got Linux deployed on anything from this old Dell to 8-way workstations and servers. I'm not seeing this "sluggishness". But I am seeing computations done as much as 30 minutes sooner than on Windows.

2. I'm not that familiar with the inner workings of Exchange but several IT directors and Technical Engineers have repeatedly said "Exchange is better than the competition".

Wow, that's a comprehensive study.

3. No, I don't own a Thinkpad but my company offers ONLY thinkpads for field work. It can survive a drop test WITHOUT denting. The macbooks can't, they dent easily. Lenovo did a test where they open and close the lid of the thinkpads constantly for the next 6 months, I don't think the macbook would've survived that. There is a reason Thinkpad's are industry standard.

Do you always believe what the manufacturer tells you?

4. Visual Studio smokes XCode. First of all, Visual Studio has REAL intellisense as you type. It has better refactoring and code analysis. You can create a event for a component just by clicking it. In Xcode, you have to go through several property windows just to create an event.
Objective-C is a joke compared to C#. C# has automated properties, dynamic language inquery, refactorings and meta attributes, anonymous methods, and more. Don't forget the fact that C# can be used to develop for the web, windows platform, and the mobile platform.

Finally actual explanations to back up blirted out opinion.

I recently got a Macbook Pro. It's one of the best machines I've used in terms of quality. And I find OS X is very innovative and contains some really cool features (I especially like the hotspots feature) however it sucks for ANY Business related work.

BS. I've been running it for 6 months, and it's excellent for administrating a mixed network. With most people using Office, a Mac would be fine, as would Linux for that matter. Do you know what absolutes are? Because that's all I've been hearing.

 

[polaris20]

My quote:

No I believe you, it's just that I get different results from them all the time. Their site blows.

 

[MH01]

With most people using Office, a Mac would be fine, as would Linux for that matter.

Entourage on a Mac has forced me to go back to using a PC at work, just so I can be productive. Its truly crap.

 

[polaris20]

Entourage on a Mac has forced me to go back to using a PC at work, just so I can be productive. Its truly crap.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Works fine for me. I do like Mail better though, and look forward to Snow Leopard's Exchange integration.

 

[whitefang]

Wow, that's a comprehensive study.

It comes from respected personnel, they don't get that job title if they didn't know what they were talking about.

Do you always believe what the manufacturer tells you?

No, they actually did a study and you can see the results on the Lenovo website. You believe whatever Apple says, so what difference does that really make anyways.

Finally actual explanations to back up blirted out opinion.

Look at the C# specifications at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language) .....it might be too advanced for you to understand though. It's probably too advanced to all the objective-c programmers to understand as well.

BS. I've been running it for 6 months, and it's excellent for administrating a mixed network. With most people using Office, a Mac would be fine, as would Linux for that matter. Do you know what absolutes are? Because that's all I've been hearing.

Well, I was about to give a presentation using my macbook pro and then realize the macbook cannot connect to the projector cause I don't have the special cables. Any other standard laptop can connect but not the macbook without special cables. Also, some of my PDF files weren't been displayed properly. Preview was actually rendering it incorrectly, I had to quickly install Adobe to render it correctly. At the office, I tried to print to our LaserJets, but none of them printed.....even though the mac driver was installed. With Windows, you just plug it in...Vista finds the driver, and I print...simple as that.