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1. Ubuntu, and it ran sluggish. It's not just Ubuntu, it's also sluggish with Slackware and Mandrake as well (the gui).

Wait what ? I've been running KDE since the 1.0 days and it's never been sluggish. I ran it on everything from a Pentium 100 with 32 MB of RAM to a Core Duo laptop with 2 GB of RAM.

Maybe you shouldn't try to run the latest version on 10 year old hardware, or if you do, disable a few of the eye-candy options.
 
Different strokes for different folks I guess. Works fine for me. I do like Mail better though, and look forward to Snow Leopard's Exchange integration.

Mail is not a Mail server. Mail is a client. No SANE corporation would use third-party services like gmail.
 
It comes from respected personnel, they don't get that job title if they didn't know what they were talking about.

The same can be said for people doing Citadel and OpenExchange installs. It comes down to opinion, not fact.

No, they actually did a study and you can see the results on the Lenovo website. You believe whatever Apple says, so what difference does that really make anyways.

Clearly you haven't been reading my posts, or you'd realize I'm not an Apple fanboy. I use all 3 major OSes daily. Please point to where I said I believe Apple's marketing.

Look at the C# specifications at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language) .....it might be too advanced for you to understand though. It's probably too advanced to all the objective-c programmers to understand as well.

You're making assumptions, and now you're being condescending. Nice.

Well, I was about to give a presentation using my macbook pro and then realize the macbook cannot connect to the projector cause I don't have the special cables. Any other standard laptop can connect but not the macbook without special cables. Also, some of my PDF files weren't been displayed properly. Preview was actually rendering it incorrectly, I had to quickly install Adobe to render it correctly. At the office, I tried to print to our LaserJets, but none of them printed.....even though the mac driver was installed. With Windows, you just plug it in...Vista finds the driver, and I print...simple as that.

So you go to do a presentation unprepared, and that makes Apple bad for business use. The printing issue sounds like user error, because (like Win7) it just works with all of our HP printers.

Why don't we agree to disagree then, because you're either misinformed, or you're trolling, either way this debate is going nowhere fast.
 
Mail is not a Mail server. Mail is a client. No SANE corporation would use third-party services like gmail.

Please learn to read. We were comparing Entourage (a mail client) to Mail (a mail client) and Outlook (a mail client) of which currently connect to an Exchange server (a mail server).

Make sense now?
 
Well what people are missing is that you don't HAVE to necessarily buy a mac from the "mac store" (lol) you can get them online for pretty cheap sometimes. My macbook cost 650 bucks, and its only the feb 2008 model.
Now I paid like 40 bucks to double the RAM, and prob another 60 to get a superdrive, but otherwise I'm happy. So the fact that I can get a great mac for only a bit more than a really ****** pc, kind of negates the ad lol
 
Yet when I point out that Microsoft has a ~20:1 advantage in OS production volume, which invariably impacts operating costs by this 20:1 difference in the denominator for Fixed Costs amortization....you openly express cynicism and/or try to wave it off as insignificant, when it is clearly not.
I didn't say it's insignificant to them, I used a "backyard oil refinery" analogy to illustrate that it's irrelevant to the end customer. You have a disadvantage in OS production volume? Well boo hoo, then use iPod revenue to subsidize it or something, we're all out of tears here. Apple's own prices are what keeps the production volume more limited than it has to be, the customers never forced them into that catch-22.

Yet this still doesn't really address the stubbornness illustrated in the iMac warranty repair saga.
I still fail to see the "cheap" part, had I been frugal I wouldn't have bought AppleCare to begin with. It simply posed a practical problem at a time when I was working up to 16 hours a day to get a project finished, occasionally slept on my studio couch and was stressed out to the max. When you're minute-pinching like I was at the time, molehills can be insurmountable. Even setting up so I could fax receipts to Apple (sorry but I haven't used a fax since the 90's) would have been too much of an interruption, and that would only have been one small step towards getting it fixed. But the project was finisihed a while ago so it's not crazy crunching time anymore -- now you can just call me lazy.

A statement that now clearly contradicts the prior claim of "übergreed" being present. If you can admit that two Apple products are fairly priced, perhaps more are ... or even all of them.
Now you're twisting my words just to be Mr. Opposite (not the first time I might add). I never said they were fairly priced, I just said that those sums match my budget. I could also buy Pet Rocks for the entire budget, that doesn't mean I think they're fairly priced for what they do or what they cost to produce. Being willing to pay a lot and wanting bang for buck are not mutually exclusive.

The "übergreed" comment referred to their peculiar habit of selling premium products and being defiantly cheap at the same time. High prices alone do not constitute übergreed. You know how when you buy a Bentley, there's an umbrella in the driver's door that slides out elegantly if the rain sensor says it's raining? They make sure to add little details like that to make you feel shamelessly spoiled. Whereas Apple would just remove the spare tire and the electrical windows and eliminate all color options, and then ask for whatever the Bentley costs + 10%.

And more significantly, I don't see it as some massively malignant scheme: afterall, Mercedes doesn't sell their A-Class in the USA, nor does Audi their A1 or A2 series, nor does your favorite of BMW offer their smaller engine variants (eg, 316i, 318i, 320i, 323i, 325i, 318d, 320d, 325d, 330d). The reality is that there's solid business reasons why they do what they do.
The A2 has been discontinued (sadly... I use to own one. Aluminium unibody!). The reason why they didn't sell anything below A4 for a long time is that Americans hate hatchbacks with a passion and scoff at compact cars in general (I'm not being judgmental -- Swedes drive the largest and thirstiest cars in Europe). When the gas prices skyrocketed and the economy went down the toilet on top of that, Americans were suddenly very interested in small cars again so now Audi USA has brought the A3 back (the A1 will come later), and VW has brought back the Polo, and maybe even the Fox (one size above the SmartCar). In other words, they sell whatever cars that any given market is asking for at any given time. That's the opposite of Apple, who try to dictate what customers want rather than adapt to the demand. Audi would've delivered that xMac tower ages ago.
 
The same can be said for people doing Citadel and OpenExchange installs. It comes down to opinion, not fact.

Yeah, they are doing installs at startup companies. They don't even count in statistics.


So you go to do a presentation unprepared, and that makes Apple bad for business use. The printing issue sounds like user error, because (like Win7) it just works with all of our HP printers.

You asked why Macs were bad for business! The fact is I can walk into the conference room and connect ANY standard laptop to the projector. However, with the macbook, I need special cables. I have to carry those cables, it's a hassel. That's why macs are bad for business especially where field work is concerned.
 
Yeah, they are doing installs at startup companies. They don't even count in statistics.

You asked why Macs were bad for business! The fact is I can walk into the conference room and connect ANY standard laptop to the projector. However, with the macbook, I need special cables. I have to carry those cables, it's a hassel. That's why macs are bad for business especially where field work is concerned.

The irony is that I don't necessarily disagree with you on all points. Vista is secure, Vista is stable. I do like Exchange the best, having administered Exchange 5.5, 2000, and 2003 servers, but having also worked with Citadel and OpenXchange as well as Zimbra.

I have a Thinkpad, and it is my opinion that they are the nicest, most reliable Windows laptop out there. As you said, there's a reason why it's the industry standard.

But I'm sorry man, I've got to really disagree with you on a lot of stuff, namely the Linux stuff and Macs' merit as a business machine. Especially when the most solid metric you come up with is "Linux feels sluggish" and the fact that you didn't realize the Mac needed a dongle to work with a projector.

So let's just agree to disagree here, and call a truce. My experience tells me one thing (still an opinion) while yours apparently tells you another opinion.
 
note plural - cableS

The fact is I can walk into the conference room and connect ANY standard laptop to the projector. However, with the macbook, I need special cables. I have to carry those cables, it's a hassel.

A couple of weeks ago someone came to a meeting with a blackbook. She had the DVI dongle, but the projector had VGA.

First idea was to get a DVI to VGA gender changer - but the Apple dongle is DVD-D only. VGA adapter would not fit.

:mad:

Fortunately, the presentation was Powerpoint and not Apple - so a thumb drive carried the .ppt to a Thinkpad.
 
Ugh, Dell drives me nuts. I just configured it the same as you, and came up with $2200. I think you get different results depending upon if you choose small business, enterprise, etc.

If it's one thing Dell sucks at, it's their website.
Yeah, it's bad. The online Apple Store wins hands down. Dell's configuration pages are extremely cluttered and it's impossible to get an overview, you always feel like you're missing out on something. And the localized ones are much worse than the American site, they'll pull language strings from all the wrong places so if I go to Dell Sweden, I can get bits and pieces of Swedish, Dutch, English and Norwegian all on the same page. I'm not sure what to make of a Dell Precision M6400 wid da skurdy-burdy Intel Cöre2Düo, Ze German harte disko, öptikäl fjord-dryve and kleine 1920x1200 skreen wid meatbölls...

HP's website is even worse though, how they manage to outsell Dell I don't know.

The upshot of Dell's website being crappy is that I resorted to calling their sales number once when the site was down, and discovered the following:

- The phone sales reps have access to *many* more BTO options than you can find on the configuration pages. Only a 1440x900 screen? Call them and you may discover that you can actually get it with 1680x1050 or 1920x1200.

- The online prices are for suckers. Between getting 10% off and having all warranties, business support contracts and accidental coverage thrown in for free, I think I got a total of 20% discount compared to what I would've paid had their online store been, well, online at the time. I can't vouch for this being generally true for Dell, or even Dell Sweden, but the guy I talked to was feeling very Santa Clause-y on this particular day.
 
The irony is that I don't necessarily disagree with you on all points. Vista is secure, Vista is stable. I do like Exchange the best, having administered Exchange 5.5, 2000, and 2003 servers, but having also worked with Citadel and OpenXchange as well as Zimbra.

I have a Thinkpad, and it is my opinion that they are the nicest, most reliable Windows laptop out there. As you said, there's a reason why it's the industry standard.

But I'm sorry man, I've got to really disagree with you on a lot of stuff, namely the Linux stuff and Macs' merit as a business machine. Especially when the most solid metric you come up with is "Linux feels sluggish" and the fact that you didn't realize the Mac needed a dongle to work with a projector.

So let's just agree to disagree here, and call a truce. My experience tells me one thing (still an opinion) while yours apparently tells you another opinion.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about and I'm not going to argue with a non-technical person, so yeah...let's truce.
 
Really? Having a fancy title is no guarantee the person knows what they're talking about. Happens all the time. From IT Directors to CEOs to POTUSes.

CEOs yeah, but VERY rarely for IT Directors. They don't get that title from drinking starbucks coffee and using macbooks.
 
Well what people are missing is that you don't HAVE to necessarily buy a mac from the "mac store" (lol) you can get them online for pretty cheap sometimes. My macbook cost 650 bucks, and its only the feb 2008 model.
Now I paid like 40 bucks to double the RAM, and prob another 60 to get a superdrive, but otherwise I'm happy. So the fact that I can get a great mac for only a bit more than a really ****** pc, kind of negates the ad lol

Exactly, that's before the microsoft tax:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/storage/?p=442
As to the antivirus etc., AVG internet security (which is not nearly as annoying as some free windows firewall options) is around $40 per year.

There are also refurbs that are like new at typically 20-30% off.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/
 
You obviously don't know what you're talking about and I'm not going to argue with a non-technical person, so yeah...let's truce.

Oh boy. I'm a non-technical person? How many Exchange and Active Directory installs have you done? How many Apache installs have you done? How many Cisco VoIP installs have you done? How many Cisco wireless systems have you deployed? How many Beowulf clusters have you set up?

I was trying to be diplomatic, but you have to be a friggin' child about it.

CEOs yeah, but VERY rarely for IT Directors. They don't get that title from drinking starbucks coffee and using macbooks.

Let me guess: you're fresh out of college, software developer maybe?
 
- The phone sales reps have access to *many* more BTO options than you can find on the configuration pages. Only a 1440x900 screen? Call them and you may discover that you can actually get it with 1680x1050 or 1920x1200.

- The online prices are for suckers. Between getting 10% off and having all warranties, business support contracts and accidental coverage thrown in for free, I think I got a total of 20% discount ...


We deal with Dell corporate account people - and see the same thing with configs. In fact, often the "description" section at Dell tells about options are aren't listed in the online store. The phone people can usually build those for you.

The other stuff (10% off, free support add-ons) are also part of corporate account benefits. It sounds like your phone calls are getting you the same deals that are part of our contract with Dell.
 
You obviously don't know what you're talking about and I'm not going to argue with a non-technical person, so yeah...let's truce.

I hope you realise that with this comment, your reputation has been made on this site as a troll.

He's offered rebutals to everyone of your non-arguments (opinions aren't facts, even though you try to present them as such).
 
Oh boy. I'm a non-technical person? How many Exchange and Active Directory installs have you done? How many Apache installs have you done? How many Cisco VoIP installs have you done? How many Cisco wireless systems have you deployed? How many Beowulf clusters have you set up?

I was trying to be diplomatic, but you have to be a friggin' child about it.



Let me guess: you're fresh out of college, software developer maybe?


I'm actually a lead software engineer with numerous IIS configurations and Server installs. .NET is the framework I work with. Unlike you, I have authority on the subject.
 
I'm actually a lead software engineer with numerous IIS configurations and Server installs. .NET is the framework I work with. Unlike you, I have authority on the subject.

If by authority you mean "fanboy". Seriously, if you're only working with 1 technology, you have no authority to compare it to others.
 
If by authority you mean "fanboy". Seriously, if you're only working with 1 technology, you have no authority to compare it to others.

I've worked with Java, and other technologies. My primary focus is .NET, and from experience, there is no other technology (for web apps and windows platform) better than .NET at the moment.

I'm going to stop arguing, since it's pointless to argue with non-technical people who have no idea what they are talking about.
 
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