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Next Generation iPhone to Use 5-Megapixel Camera?

i'm happy with my 3mp on the 3gs :) but better quality is always welcome, if it does provide better quality, which im sure it will.

i've always loved the 5mp on my phone that ive had since 2007! lol. don't get me wrong, I love iPhones :)
 
MorphingDragon said:
WRONG! READ!

I said unnecessary an Megapixel count for the sensor/lens causes noise, and according to those samples pictures, it does indeed have noise. Look at the parts with Uniform color, at 100% zoom you can clearly see noise above what is considered JPEG artifact. Not to mention it looks slightly blurry at 100%.
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I feel a slapping coming on. :D
 
iEdd said:
Just in case it's still not clear: The Nokia takes better photos, but it is not because it has more megapixels.
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...which was exactly the point I was making.

The 'megapixel myth' cult go on, and on, and on about more pixels leading to less quality which is true, but that's naive. It's only a part of the argument.

Increase pixels, increase sensor size, use decent optics, add a decent flash. Nokia did all of those, not just add more pixels.
 
As a photographer, I know that the more pixels a sensor has, the worse the image quality gets, so I'm not so fond of the iPhone getting even higher resolution cameras. The sensor size is WAY too small to produce decent images anyway, what's the point of making them higher resolution, with even more noise? The iPhone's display isn't capable of displaying more than 10% of that resolution anyway, and I sincerely hope no one actually looks at these photos on their computer or prints them. 3 Megapixels is perfectly fine for anyone who doesn't want to post-process, crop or print their photos, and I'm sure no one wants to do that.
 
GordonShumway said:
I thought Gizmodo disassembled the phone. They've had it for one week and didn't manage to figure out what sort of camera components it has??
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nope, even if they did they cannot reveal it to the public, as it'll constitute revealing Trade secrets and industrial espionage or something of that degree, even opening the contents of the phone and taking pictures of it has landed them in hot soup.
 
aegisdesign said:
...which was exactly the point I was making.

The 'megapixel myth' cult go on, and on, and on about more pixels leading to less quality which is true, but that's naive. It's only a part of the argument.

Increase pixels, increase sensor size, use decent optics, add a decent flash. Nokia did all of those, not just add more pixels.
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Ahhhh I get it now. You are interpreting the 'megapixel myth' differently to me.

Me:
- Myth interpretation = Number of pixels is not everything, and increasing them will not _necessarily_ improve image quality.
- This is completely true. Therefore we should look into improving other things. A vast improvement for the iPhone was an auto-focusing lens.
- The Nokia takes better pics than the average camera not because of more pixels, but a better sensor as well.

You:
- Myth interpretation = Increasing the number of pixels leads to lower image quality.
- This isn't always true. If you increase the quality/size of the sensor as well then more pixels will not degrade quality.
- The Nokia takes better pics than the average camera not because of more pixels, but a better sensor as well.

Have I got your position on this right? If so, then we are in agreement, but just looking at it from different angles.

Obviously you can take the megapixel argument to extremes. 1 pixel will not get you a useful image. 300k pixels generally isn't enough for detail. 3-5MP probably peaks the quality of a phone camera with the average sensor.
 
I'm not a keen photographer and my very old 3.2MP (2x optical) Canon iXus is probably good enough for me; maybe a 4MP (3x optical) would be nice upgrade just to give a bit of margin above the quality I actually need. This is all 7 to 8 year old technology in the compact camera world.

Unfortunately, to equal my existing 3.2MP iXus in an iPhone form factor, isn't it necessary to have a sufficiently noise-free sensor at 12.8MP and to equal the 2003 Canon iXus needs a 36MP sensor? The issue here is the optical zoom which is essential for over 50% of the shots I seem to take when on vacation and, unless there is a revolutionary breakthrough is in lens technology that allows 2x or 3x optical zoom within the current iPhone space constraints then one needs to resort to digital zoom and, at 3x zoom, that's cropping the middle 1/9th of the raw image to form the finished photograph.

Working it backwards, a 5MP camera being subjected to 2x digital zoom is equivalent to an old 1.25MP camera at 2x optical zoom (my first camera was 1.0MP I think, and sort of OK; I can't remember the optical zoom). At 3x digital zoom then a 5MP camera is equal to a 0.555MP camera at 3x optical zoom so not really viable but at 12MP that gets to the equivalent of 1.33MP at 3x optical zoom so again getting reasonable.

Do my comments above have any validity? Like I said, I'm really not a keen photographer (I probably take fewer that 30 photographs a year) so I defer to the expertise of others here. It's probably because I'm such an occasional photographer that I would really like my phone to be able to replace my existing camera, and if it did I'd probably end up taking more photographs, but for shots where I currently require optical zoom the technology just doesn't seem to be there yet.

- Julian
 
Honestly, you need 3.2 to get accceptable 6 x4 prints. And a little bit extra, so 5MP is probably an optimum size for most people.

But as others have said, the main issue will be other things - will the image processing algorithims be better than the ones in the 3GS (which are not good. Not good at all)? Will the lens quality be better? Will it the sensor have better low light performance? How big is the sensor? All of these will make a significant difference.

Still, the fact Apple isn't using an archaic, barely-produced-any-more, bargain basement sensor like the last few since nobody used such low resolutions anymore is good news. It vastly increases the chances that the sensor in the new iPhone will suck less.

Phazer
 
upsguy27 said:
Hmm, was hoping for 8 megapixels.
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Well it'd make sense as alot of phones have 8MP or more, but you have to think about Apple's game here.

They have this big, very popular product. Why release the best stuff when you can get away with inferior specs? As long as its 5MP they'll still sell loads of this one, saving the 8MP camera for the next phone.
 
Ubuntu said:
Well it'd make sense as alot of phones have 8MP or more, but you have to think about Apple's game here.

They have this big, very popular product. Why release the best stuff when you can get away with inferior specs? As long as its 5MP they'll still sell loads of this one, saving the 8MP camera for the next phone.
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8 megapixels is much larger than most people realise. Two 30" Apple Cinema Displays contain 8 megapixels. I very highly doubt many people have even one 30" display. So 8MP is excessive for computer viewing.

So what about prints? At 300 ppi (read; high quality magazine print), a 12" by 7" image would be 7.5MP. Do people ever actually plan on printing an image that size, at that pixel density, from a cell phone camera?

I would be stoked if Apple kept the same 3.2MP sensor they have at the moment in the iPhone. Any bigger, and the quality of images and videos is likely to degrade.
 
Scarlet, you have to appreciate that people want to shoot professional movie-grade billboard posters on their iPhones. The mars bar in their pocket that smeared chocolate over the lens notwithstanding. :p
 
Ubuntu said:
Well it'd make sense as alot of phones have 8MP or more, but you have to think about Apple's game here.

They have this big, very popular product. Why release the best stuff when you can get away with inferior specs? As long as its 5MP they'll still sell loads of this one, saving the 8MP camera for the next phone.
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Phones offering 8MP are pandering to the ignorant who simply buy on tech specs without understanding what they mean.
 
The electronics component maker began producing the sophisticated cameras at its plant in Gumi this month and will mass produce them starting in the second half of this year.
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if they start mass producing them in the 2nd half of the year and the new iphone is released in june then they will not be ready in time, will they?
 
retroneo said:
I just checked out this sample video from a Nokia N8. AMAZING!

http://vimeo.com/11266224

I doubt this years iPhone will come close to this, but it shows what is now possible in a mobile phone. Cool.
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This posters says it:

Well, at first sight, great quality, but the best shots in this clip are clearly taken with assistance of a tripod and maybe even more tools. Most pocket DVR's currently available (Flip, bloggie) can achieve this level of quality, with the appropriate tools.
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I agree it looks very nice......
 
Here's the Camera module from LG Innotec which the iPhone 4 will use - http://www.lginnotek.com/product/camera_module.jsp

From LG

The state-of-the-art product to convert information of visible object into the electric image signal. "Differently from analog method that records an object image through chemical reaction using the films. LG Innotek camera module converts the optical signal that is received through lens into the RGB (Red, Green, Blue) electric signal by using the image sensor. The module displays the information of object converted to electric signal on the screens of the digital visual devices such as mobile phones and monitors, allowing us to view and save them. Its sensing capability can recognize movements of objects such as the face expression and hands to run digital devices as well, extending its activity area even to input devices." (Hint: Face Expression)

Specs:
* High definition photography up to VGA~12Mega pixels
* High Quality and vivid image recording 2. Fixed focus, Auto focus,
* Optical Zoom, Anti-Shake
* Maximization of user’s convenience
* Ultra small size with the design of the ultra-slim optical system
* Leading the minimization of the digital devices
* High resolution photography
* High speed interface - Reducing the processing time of high-quality image"
 
More megapixels do not necessarily mean better or worse quality. It depends on the sensor size. The size of sensor and lens is limited on something as small as a phone because of the focal length. Larger optics result in a longer point of focus.
 
Scarlet Fever said:
My palm is firmly pressed against my face.

Do you actually realise how big 8 megapixels is? Two 30" Apple Cinema Displays contain 8 megapixels. I very highly doubt you have even one 30" display. So 8MP is excessive for computer viewing.

So what about prints? At 300 ppi (read; high quality magazine print), a 12" by 7" image would be 7.5MP. Do you ever actually plan on printing an image that size, at that pixel density, from a cell phone camera?

I would be stoked if Apple kept the same 3.2MP sensor they have at the moment in the iPhone. Any bigger, and the quality of images and videos is likely to degrade.
Click to expand...

Think about the marketing. I know plenty of people who will not buy an iPhone. I know almost as many who list the 3mp camera as being one of the biggest reasons. And yes, I do know all that, thank you. Most people won't know that and will simply go by the megapixels. You may remove your palm from your face now. Not really sure why you wished to share such information but I'm not one to judge creepy people.

Digitalclips said:
Phones offering 8MP are pandering to the ignorant who simply buy on tech specs without understanding what they mean.
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I agree, and it works. You can't deny that.
 
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