Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It would be suicide I think if Apple put a worse rear facing camera in the iPad than it's already fitted to the iPhone4.

Given the larger screen size you would see poor quality video more easily.

I'd think the review sites would go ballistic with condemnation if the iPad got a worse camera, such as in the touch.

It would really stamp the iPad as being kept the poor second rate Apple product after the iPhone.

They would be mad if they did it.
You make a very good point. I'm hoping it's at least 5MP + with 720p minimum (1080p preferred).

If the next gen iPad has a rear-facing camera I'll be surprised.
I wouldn't be. Apple has one on the touch and iPhone, so it only makes sense to add one to the iPad next. ;)

I am still questioning the rationale for a rear facing camera on the iPad.
FaceTime, augmented reality apps, scanning, video recording, etc... https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1035856/
 
I am still questioning the rationale for a rear facing camera on the iPad.

Me too. I think definitely a front-facing one, but rear? I have a hard time seeing people holding their iPads in front of their faces to take a picture/video on the other side. Apple would assumedly emphasize FaceTime in an iPad camera and not much else.
 
I am still questioning the rationale for a rear facing camera on the iPad.

It's a case of moving forward, and it's what we have (as users) to thank competition for.

It does not matter what Apple may in their ideal world offer it's customers.

If most/all other tablets come out with camera's then Apple will have to also offer it's customers the same, otherwise they will lose some custom.

This is why it's never a good thing to have no competitors, as it's only the consumer that loses out if this is the case.
 
It's a case of moving forward, and it's what we have (as users) to thank competition for.

It does not matter what Apple may in their ideal world offer it's customers.

If most/all other tablets come out with camera's then Apple will have to also offer it's customers the same, otherwise they will lose some custom.

This is why it's never a good thing to have no competitors, as it's only the consumer that loses out if this is the case.

At the moment I see the second camera on the iPad in similar light to the FM tuner on the iPod (something that happened only after the iPod became virtually ubiquitous).

There will definitely be a front-facing camera - particularly since Apple now markets cameras on their notebooks as Facetime cameras. This demonstrates that Facetime is not exclusively based on a two camera system.

If every other 9.7" Android tablet manufactured between now the end times has two cameras, I still think there is a very real chance that the iPad will only have a front-facing camera.

I realize that there are legitimate reasons that people may want two cameras on the iPad, but I don't know how compelling they are to those in Cupertino.

If there is a camera it wouldn't surprise me because Apple may want to make two cameras a uniform feature across iOS devices. If there isn't a camera, it wouldn't surprise me either. I could very easily see Apple saying that if you want a device that takes pictures to get an iPhone or an iPod.

Most certainly pressure from other manufacturers will not force Apple to put a second camera on the iPad. If that was the case, we would have Macbook Pros with eSATA, 8 USB ports, a BluRay drive, and removable batteries.
 
Yeah, and the results of that poll are a ringing endorsement of the idea.

Until it's fitted.... :D

Just like the isn't the iPhone4 a horrid cheap design that 80% of people on these forums were saying BEFORE it was officially realised it was the real thing.

I've been here long enough to see how these things work.

Before Apple do it it's stupid, and almost no-one wants it.

After Apple do it, it's brilliant, and anyone who does not like it, is a fool.
;)
 
The only iOS device with the "full retina" display is the iPhone 4: IPS display and 960x640.

The iPod touch only has the 960x640 resolution, but no IPS display (so it turns a yellow tint at one side and blue tint at the other.).

The iPad has the IPS display, but its PPI isn't 300+ (does it need to be: no)

By my understading the "retina" display is a screen that has a PPI of 300+ at a certain distance; so the iPad will only need about 250 PPI, for us not "to distinguish pixels;" however, it will be expensive.



I hope you're right.

Depends on what you mean by "expensive". When iPhone 4 first was released according to iSuppli it cost them $188 to make the iPhone 4, although unsubsidized it cost a total of $500 to the consumer. Putting this technology in millions of devices will ultimately drive the cost down rapidly. The screen itself cost Apple $28.50 per 3.5' screen. It is very likely that these cost have gone down. Let's say to $20. If they were charging $20 per 3.33 in of screen the screen on a $500 iPad would cost $60. So can someone please tell me again how this isn't possible, and why there are people in here that are so adamant that it doesn't happen and it's "just a front facing cam-" oh wait....I know why. ;)
 
Depends on what you mean by "expensive". When iPhone 4 first was released according to iSuppli it cost them $188 to make the iPhone 4, although unsubsidized it cost a total of $500 to the consumer. Putting this technology in millions of devices will ultimately drive the cost down rapidly. The screen itself cost Apple $28.50 per 3.5' screen. It is very likely that these cost have gone down. Let's say to $20. If they were charging $20 per 3.33 in of screen the screen on a $500 iPad would cost $60. So can someone please tell me again how this isn't possible, and why there are people in here that are so adamant that it doesn't happen and it's "just a front facing cam-" oh wait....I know why. ;)

Your analytical skills are without peer.

#1 - iSuppli is guessing at costs.

#2 - You can't just go from "screen y is $20, so 3X screen y is $60" that fails to consider the complexity of making screens in larger sizes.

#3 - it's more than just the cost of the display, it's upgrading the graphics processor needed to run the display - and the power necessary to run the processor. I could go on but none of this is likely making any sense to you.
 
I think a Retina display (IPS, 300+ PPI) screen would be awesome.

There are multiple platforms used in netbooks and even nVidia solutions (ion?) for enhanced GPU capability on a very small device.

If apple can fit a 320M in an 11" macbook air, is a separate GPU chip on the ipad really such an impossibility?
 
I would love a 5mp or even 8mp camera with 1080p video recording in the iPad 2; however, I think that Apple will just stick with a decent 3.2mp with 720p video recording, for iPad 2 and a increase to 5mp and 1080p for iPad 3.

Yeah, because the ergonomic form factor of a tablet is just screaming to be used for HD footage capture. As such, everyone will be fine with the premium that they will need to pay for such a life changing feature.
 
Last edited:
"Retina display" is 80% marketing and 20% actual technology as is evident in the difference in the displays on iPhone and iPod touch. Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. Do some more research.

I think what he was getting at is that having such a massive resolution on such a large screen would result in an impossibly expensive unit with ridiculously short battery life thanks to the expensive screen and processors needed to run it.
 
I think a Retina display (IPS, 300+ PPI) screen would be awesome.
I agree that a Retina display would be awesome and I disagree with people who doubt that the iPad needs it. I use an app called Evernote (EN) that has clients for Windows, iPhone and iPad (and lots of other platforms) and the idea is that one can enter notes on one client and then view them anywhere. Unfortunately there are currently serious design flaws in the software that means that if I create a note that is in the correct font size for my 23" PC monitor then, when that note is downloaded to my mobile devices and viewed using the appropriate EN iPhone or iPad client, the fonts come out as absolutely tiny. What is interesting here though is that this note is actually readable on the 3.5" screen of my iPhone 4 because the display is so sharp but is totally unreadable on my 9.7" iPad screen unless I zoom in.

Even just for simple text work a retina display on the iPad would be great and I suspect that it would make the iPad more useable as a content creation device because it would become comfortable to use apps like word processors and spreadsheets at lower zoom levels so that one got more on the screen at a time while still being perfectly readable and, at least for spreadsheets (which is what I do most), that would bump up the useability factor for me.

There are multiple platforms used in netbooks and even nVidia solutions (ion?) for enhanced GPU capability on a very small device.

If apple can fit a 320M in an 11" macbook air, is a separate GPU chip on the ipad really such an impossibility?
On the point of just fitting in a separate GPU chip then I'd say that it is by no means an impossibility, it would be perfectly possible. The issue though is power consumption and heat dissapation. Your example of the 11" macbook air (MBA) is a good one and illustrates the point. I just went to Apple's spec page (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/specs.html) and they quote up to 5 hours of "wireless productivity". Assuming that's comparable to the what the iPad spec calls "surfing the web on Wi-Fi" then the iPad claims 10 hours, i.e. twice as much as the MBA, and that's with the iPad only having a 25 watt hour battery vs the MBA's 35 watt hour battery so the MBA is really soaking up the power compared to the iPad.

OK, not all the extra power draw is down to the GPU, the MBA does have a bigger screen, but it gets worse. The separate GPU (and the CPU) in the MBA is driving a 1366 x 768 pixel screen which is a total of 1,058,304 pixels. If Apple follow the same strategy as the iPhone and take the iPad to higher resolution by quadrupling the pixel count then an iPad retina display would have 3,145,728 pixels, i.e. almost exactly three times the pixel count of the MBA (2.97x to 2 decimal places) so even the CPU/GPU combo in the MBA is facing a much less daunting task than the one that would be presented to the electronics in a retina display iPad and needing a battery that's already 40% bigger than the one in the iPad to only get half the battery life while driving one third of the pixels.

I would love it if Apple made me look like an idiot by releasing a retina display iPad in 2011 but I just don't think that the technology is there yet to do it. In my opinion 2012 is where we start to maybe get some chance of it happening and 2013 is when I would begin to start getting disappointed if it doesn't happen.

And of course this doesn't even consider the other part of the picture, whether there is a hope in hell right now of getting good enough manufacturing yields to produce a 9.7" retina display at a realistic price point.

- Julian
 
Yeah, because the ergonomic form factor of a tablet is just screaming to be used for HD footage capture. As such, everyone will be fine with the premium that they will need to pay for such a life changing feature.

£9 for the 5 mega-pixel + 720p video recording.
£1 for the VGA front facing camera.

And what would I use it for:

  • When I am at home, I can record something / take a pic.
  • AR apps
  • Document apps (take a pic of a document and it "converts" it in to text)
  • In use with FaceTime

Who cares what you look like when you're at home?
 
I think the iPad's just great the way that it is. I don't really have a use or reason for a camera on the iPad, but I understand that I'm probably in the minority.

What I would like to see is twice or thrice the working RAM (at least), and Retina Display.

Unfortunately, the Retina Display on a 10" screen would probably require a stronger processor.

And if that stronger processor is available, then I would not mind seeing a jump to an optional 128 GB of storage. This would allow many of us to do away with out laptops altogether. (Then again, maybe Apple doesn't want all of us doing away with our laptops!)

I am less interested in a MacBook Air than I am interested in a stronger iPad that is the same size as the current iPad.
 
Last edited:
On the point of just fitting in a separate GPU chip then I'd say that it is by no means an impossibility, it would be perfectly possible. The issue though is power consumption and heat dissapation [sic].
I own a MacBook Pro with discrete video, and the heat produced during an extended session when you're locked onto the nVidia chip...well, if you've never had to do it, I think you just wouldn't believe the description. It heats up the aluminium right to the point you feel you might burn yourself.

And you can hear the fans churning away and can't quite figure out where all that stirred air is exiting, so you end up being a little worried.

And the battery life does, indeed, go straight to hell.

I don't know. I think maybe when we're asking for fancy GPU and discrete video, and 720p recording and all that...maybe we're just asking too much out of this particular form factor.
 
Your analytical skills are without peer.

#1 - iSuppli is guessing at costs.

#2 - You can't just go from "screen y is $20, so 3X screen y is $60" that fails to consider the complexity of making screens in larger sizes.

#3 - it's more than just the cost of the display, it's upgrading the graphics processor needed to run the display - and the power necessary to run the processor. I could go on but none of this is likely making any sense to you.


I like that common sense is met with false intelligence superiority. iSuppli may very well be guessing cost however they likely do it with some kind of knowledge of how the processes and manufacturers work.

For example I work at a place that creates parts for Honda, Toyota, Lexus, so on. One part that we produce we produce because we are the only company in the automotive industry that is able to fabricate the part in a process that is agreeable to Honda. It is an incredibly complex process for part of a minivan that most people wouldn't think twice about. It cost us in total (before labor) $2.90 to build, but we sell to Honda for $86 a piece, or because Honda buys them by the tens of thousands at a time, they get a cheaper bulk price. We have a bigger version of the part. It cost us $3.90 in material to create it. We charge $97 for that.

I have worked at places that create computers and semiconductors as well and guess what? I'll be damned if every single manufacturing business in any kind of industry works the same! Crazy ain't it? I thought more about what I originally said. The iPad really is more comparable to 4 and a half iPhone screens in terms of real estate, so $90 for the screen would be a safe assumption.

Oh but there is still the issue of this screen apparently would "cripple" the iPad like everyone here assumes. This is why I would figure (and Apple has yet to not do this with updating anything) that the A4 would get updated (probably rebrand it as something else) with a Cortex A9, as that is what pretty much every other tablet coming out the end of this year and next will be housing, a multicore variant of the PowerVR already housed in the machine (SGXMP) and more ram.

What's the real reason most of you are against this though? Having butt hurt over spending $600+ on a incomplete product a few months ago?
 
UGH Retina Display

When are you guys going to figure out that a "retina display" is a marketing term? There was no such thing as a "retina display" prior to the Iphone 4 coming out. The Ipad may have a higher resolution screen, but in Generation 2, it will not have resolution as high, comparatively, as the Iphone 4.
My guesses for G2 pad upgrades are as follows:
Camera for facetime
Higher resolution screen
air print that works with all wifi printers directly from the ipad
more Ram
Faster processor

I can't see any more changes than that for G2
 
When are you guys going to figure out that a "retina display" is a marketing term? There was no such thing as a "retina display" prior to the Iphone 4 coming out. The Ipad may have a higher resolution screen, but in Generation 2, it will not have resolution as high, comparatively, as the Iphone 4.
My guesses for G2 pad upgrades are as follows:
Camera for facetime
Higher resolution screen
air print that works with all wifi printers directly from the ipad
more Ram
Faster processor

I can't see any more changes than that for G2

I think most of these are pretty realistic. Plus, Apple would be a bit foolish to create another resolution to support so early on (think about how many people had to update their apps to make iPad versions initially, and then iPhone 4-compatible ones). If Apple were to update the resolution on the iPad, that would mean that every less-than-a-year-or-thereabouts iPad app would need to be updated again.

I'd rather see an iPad that showed iPhone 4 apps at the proper resolution with more RAM, a faster processor, and cameras.
 
When are you guys going to figure out that a "retina display" is a marketing term? There was no such thing as a "retina display" prior to the Iphone 4 coming out.
Although true, I don't really see why people care about this. There is also no such thing as a "high resolution display" ("high" is an ambiguous term that doesn't define a specific resolution and ppi).

I can only speak for myself but I just use the term retina display to refer to a display with a pretty high ppi somewhat comparable to that on the iPhone 4 and I can't be bothered to keep defining a more appropriate term in every post (e.g. a pdahttorlatvdfd screen - "pixel density approaching human 20/20 optical resolution at typical viewing distance for device" screen). I just assume that most people with an understanding of the issues (that's not a swipe at you, you do seem to understand the issues) read retina in the same way as me, i.e. a reasonable shorthand for a pdahttoratvdfd screen. Maybe I am falling into an Apple marketing trap because by using the term "retina" I am propagating some of their hype but it saves me effort to appropriate their term for my use so that's what I do.

- Julian
 
£9 for the 5 mega-pixel + 720p video recording.
£1 for the VGA front facing camera.

And what would I use it for:

  • When I am at home, I can record something / take a pic.
  • AR apps
  • Document apps (take a pic of a document and it "converts" it in to text)
  • In use with FaceTime

Who cares what you look like when you're at home?

9 quid at the manufacturing end is around 40 to the consumer at the retail end.

And before you consider how fantastariffic it would be to record stuff, please hold the iPad at eye height as if you were recording video and run around doing so for a couple of minutes - you will quickly see why it is in no way suited to this task.

The iPad is not like an DSLR which is held very close to the body, so even a very heavy camera is easy to hold. But because the screen needs to held far enough from the face to view the screen as a view-finder, it starts becoming awkwardly heavy as you are forced to suspend it around 40cm from your face.

If a forward facing camera is included in the next iPad build, it will result in masses of idiots posting "iPad is unusable as a camera - why did I have to pay more for this feature when it is too bulky/heavy to use?", guaranteed. And many of those will be the ones who cried loudest for the camera in the first place.
 
When are you guys going to figure out that a "retina display" is a marketing term?
I think that most of us know that. It is probably just as convenient to refer to it by the marque "Retina Display" as any other marque you could come up with for an ultra-high-pixel-density display.
 
Apple's hot on moving the iPad into businesses, which I agree will be tremendous. Therefore, I doubt the gaming stuff like gyroscopes will go in. Facetime, yes, and cameras.

They've already mentioned a mini-USB port for the european-mandated charging. Hopefully this port will be able to sync as well (I can't see any reason why not, but this is Apple).

For business, there should be a barcode-reader accessory. This could connect via the mini-USB port, or it might be possible to use the camera. (There are barcode programs for the iPhone, but I haven't seen them work and don't know if they can read codes fast enough for inventory-type work.)

The camera should be able to image and deskew documents so it can be used for scanning forms, and possibly also faxing them. This might mandate a fairly high resolution back camera (6 megapixels) and possibly a stand.

More RAM and a faster CPU. (As a programmer, there is never enough performance.)
 
When the new iPad sees a release (presuming spring) I will have saved up enough to buy one, I will probably be getting the top range model whatever happens (I can already afford a top line WiFi, and want to go for 3G).

I hope for a front facing camera, little (no) change in form factor or design, roughly 200dpi on the screen and possibly a bump to 128GB - as that would indicate an iPhone making the jump to 64GB and probably a 128GB iPod touch - as well as a boost to ram and processor (to match the iPhone 4), and a more powerful battery to power these increases.

I see the 3G and WiFi models remaining discrete for the foreseeable.
 
Apple's hot on moving the iPad into businesses, which I agree will be tremendous. Therefore, I doubt the gaming stuff like gyroscopes will go in. Facetime, yes, and cameras.

I hope they offer versions without cameras, too - there are a number of businesses that don't allow products with cameras for security reasons and this market is basically out of Apple's reach due to every product having a camera...then again, the iPad may not be best-suited for that. I know a camera-less BlackBerry exists on most carriers, as do camera-less dumbphones.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.