Warner will get in..There was some question with the black hole in his career (02-04),but he's more than answered any doubters. If his regular season numbers weren't enough,his post season numbers certainly are..As for Leinart, he hasn't shown much in terms of starting QB potential in whatever starts he's had...
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NFL season 2009-2010
- Thread starter PCsucks
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Warner's numbers are great everywhere, but according to process according to the ESPN channel, it's only the regular season numbers that are counted in the figuring of if someone in football deserves Hall of Fame. The hall is not a ring counting contest as 2x Super Bowl winner Plunkett is not in the hall and ringless Marino is. Postseason, preseason, college, and foreign or other football play (USFL, European American style football) are not factors taken into account. The only exception is counting old AFL play.
Warner will get in!
But we will have to wait as Hall of Fame rules dictates that he has to be retired five years.
It's the same thing that may be facing Ichiro (in MLB) when he retires from the American half of his career in baseball. He had a stellar career in the US, no doubt, but some his great baseball playing was in Japan. The big picture is that he's one of the greatest baseball players, ever. Splitting his career like he did may have killed is chances at a US hall of fame. But time will tell.
I disagree. I am not a fan of Ichiro, but I believe his MLB career alone can easily get him in to the hall of fame.
His numbers are even more amazing when you consider that from 02-06 he threw a combined 27 td's. He also played in an integral part in turning around two of the league's worst franchises and leading them each to SB appearances. Winning one and coming within a Santonio Holmes tightrope catch for another. He's one of the great sport's stories..From bagging groceries to SB champ to the bottom back to the top..
And as with any pro sport's HOF,politics come into play (ie Ken Stabler)... Who should/shouldn't be in is a whole different debate..And that goes for any sport.
Warner took who to the Super Bowl?
Yes, he should get into the hall. I do remember the bad days of the Rams and Cardinals very well and Warner was a bright light for them.
And about that Holmes catch? That will remain one of the great NFL mysteries, but what the officials rule, even if there are pictures after the fact, stands. That's football. I saw that when he actually had possession of the ball, one foot was down while the other was on top of it. But at one point where the ball at no time was in his hands but against his jersey or maybe not even that, there was a split second where both toes were in. That can be called either way from what the refs saw.
But we have all seen really obviously bad calls and this was not one of them. The cameras covering the event didn't show possession and both feet down, however fan cameras and press cameras indicate a possibility that the catch was solid, that is if Holmes had possession.
If you catch a ball, let go of it for a second, have both feet in, then have one foot out, and then regain the ball, is that a catch?
The only answer is if the refs call it that way.
I remember the debacle some years back with the Raiders vs. NE where in a controversial call, NE came out on top. But that's football, refs, and how the game has always been done. NE people loved it and Bay Area folks like me were mad. Maybe one day they will have electronic sensors on the field and the uniforms, and hands or receivers to determine a close call like that great tightrope catch by Holmes.
There's a lot of footage on receivers practicing this move to perfection over and over, and when it's too close to call, where one foot was off the turf by an inch, but there was a reasonable expectation that a tall blade of grass could have touched the shoe, the call usually goes as a catch. Of course, we have seen catches where both feet were within a whole foot in bounds, ball clearly in possession, and the refs just didn't call it a fair catch, but at the same time the other team may get a pass interference call which is nothing close to that.
In the end, things tend to balance out and refs don't come into the game with a penalty vendetta against one team or another.
I also remember a roughing the passer call on Sugar Bear Hamilton against the Raiders many years ago.So yes,calls do balance themselves out over time ...
Regardless,I hope the refs call a good SB and let the players play. I'd hate to see some ticky tack,weak PI call or incidental contact downfield have an impact on the outcome of the game..Let the players decide it..
...Regardless,I hope the refs call a good SB and let the players play. I'd hate to see some ticky tack,weak PI call or incidental contact downfield have an impact on the outcome of the game..Let the players decide it..
I also remember a roughing the passer call on Sugar Bear Hamilton against the Raiders many years ago.So yes,calls do balance themselves out over time
Regardless,I hope the refs call a good SB and let the players play. I'd hate to see some ticky tack,weak PI call or incidental contact downfield have an impact on the outcome of the game..Let the players decide it..
Isn't the pass interference thing maddening?
Next year, or in the distant politically correct future, the defender will have to be 100 feet away from the receiver, and if there is contact, he will be forced to forfeit his salary!!
Isn't the pass interference thing maddening?
Next year, or in the distant politically correct future, the defender will have to be 100 feet away from the receiver, and if there is contact, he will be forced to forfeit his salary!!
IMO,it's single handedly ruining the NFL..Nothing like giving a team 30-40+ yards of field position on a ball that wasn't even catchable in the first place. Much like the call on the Vikings late in Sunday's NFCCG.Not to mention if the "foul" happens in the endzone. The problem is that it's a huge gray area. It varies week to week,game to game and officiating crew to crew..I think the NFL should go to the college rules on PI,IMO..
So is anyone watching the Pro Bowl this weekend. I don't like this format but.......at least we have football this weekend!
It's all so human which is bad, and good. What strikes me as terrible is when there is a pass interference call here and there and nobody mentions the dude who grabbed Sanchez's face mask and wrenched his neck in the Jets game. But anyway the Jets stood no chance, but it was a cheap shot grabbing the face mask that way. And then there was this very late, brutal hit on Favre, which didn't get called. As much as I think Favre is a prima donna, nobody deserves getting hit like that, that hard, after the play is done.
Sometimes, I admit, the momentum of a big fat guy coming in so fast has nowhere to go but straight and sometimes after the play the guy does land on the QB. I know that's football so it's not always easy to tell.
Case in point, I am an older middle aged guy who skateboards, and where I used to stop on a dime, I now take a lot longer to stop due to have gone from 135 to 170, plus slower (Favre of now) like reflexes. So when I hit the skate park, I make sure it's empty lest I accidentally late hit some 135 pound HS or college kid and end up breaking their skull (since they never wear helmets). But with Favre in his loss recently, I swear that D guy looks like he purposely hit Favre even though he had 100 pounds on the QB and was moving in on him fast. It's the way he landed on him that seemed really suspect.
Sometimes I do run into smaller skaters, but me, a non athelete, knows how to take a fall in the least damaging way to the other skater and I wear a ton of heavy protective gear on. I often end up falling badly in order to avoid injury to someone smaller than me. It's common sense and decency. Last week, that guy (I can't remember which NO player he was) just drilled Favre into the ground like a ragdoll.
I think football needs a total overhaul in how they call penalties. There's too much preference for protecting receivers and not enough protection for roughing up the quarterback. With tv coverage, sometimes the penalties are not on film at a good angle so I assume sometimes the refs see something we don't.
He, he, I love being an armchair NFL ref.
That being said, if Favre has a big mama of a wife or girlfriend, then he could handle being on the bottom.
And for Sanchez, he could probably turn his head around now like that Exorcist girl.
Yes. I liked it better... From what I have been reading there are going to be a lot of players not going because they are in the super bowl.
The Pro Bowl is the worst of all the "all star games" in sports
All the players want to be selected, but none want to play
And it is a ridiculous exhibition
The new format of having it the week before the SB in the same city will not save it
Take it back to Hawaii, it is just a vacation for the players anyway
and they don't want to vacation in Miami or any SB city
Nobody cares
No, I won't be watching
There is no point
Woof, Woof - Dawg
The Pro Bowl is the worst of all the "all star games" in sports
All the players want to be selected, but none want to play
And it is a ridiculous exhibition
The new format of having it the week before the SB in the same city will not save it
Take it back to Hawaii, it is just a vacation for the players anyway
and they don't want to vacation in Miami or any SB city
Nobody cares
No, I won't be watching
There is no point
Woof, Woof - Dawg
Sometimes I see talent come out in players I didn't know they had. And low and behold, that pro bowl player gets a ring a couple of years down the line and maybe hall of fame after retirement.
The Pro bowl is the worst all star game. Seriously, why play it after the season is over. Just don't even bother with it. Nobody will ever watch because it doesn't have a purpose. They can't bookend a meaningless game with the most watched game in sports.
It's an exhibition at best..Offense only..More like an arena football game..No different than the NBA All Star Game..
Why do the refs feel the need to do this after the fact?
The NBA lends itself to the individual showmanship and exhibitionism of the All Star game
The NFL isn't like that in my opinion, in spite of the Ochocinco's and the TO's
Woof, Woof - Dawg
The NBA lends itself to the individual showmanship and exhibitionism of the All Star game
The NFL isn't like that in my opinion, in spite of the Ochocinco's and the TO's
Woof, Woof - Dawg
It's basically an offense only show..No blitzing,guys going half speed etc...IMO, the league wants a high scoring Pro Bowl..A 17-10 Pro Bowl wouldn't go over too well with Goodell and the league.
In the NBA, people want to see the long 3's, the dunks, the passes, etc, and you can do that in the All Star game. Hell, they don't play defense in the NBA anyway.
In the NFL, people want to see the sacks, the bone-crushing hits, the drama of the 2 minute drill against a fierce pass rush. Yeah, they want the long pass, but it isn only meaningful if the QB is under pressure and the CB is trying to clobber the receiver.
All of that is taken away
Woof, Woof - Dawg
In the NFL, people want to see the sacks, the bone-crushing hits, the drama of the 2 minute drill against a fierce pass rush. Yeah, they want the long pass, but it isn only meaningful if the QB is under pressure and the CB is trying to clobber the receiver.
All of that is taken away
Woof, Woof - Dawg
The NFL has been an offense heavy league since about 2005. The league was tired of close scoring games and defensive struggles. They let the refs call any kind of downfield contact,a defender laying a fingernail on the QB,PI etc.. Polian was instrumental in bitching to the competition committee about the fact that his receivers weren't getting separation downfield..Low and behold,you have what we have now.. A 51-45 playoff game,more OT's than ever and the likelihood that we'll never see and under 200 point defense ever again...
Edit:
Freeney looks ding'd:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4874674
Edit 2:
Mario Williams could have just lit up Aaron Rodgers but went by him..Flag football at its finest...
The Pro-Bowl: Where sacks don't happen
Very generous of Mario.
Indeed. Flag football by pro players.
You can thank Polian's whining for the move to Miami instead of Honolulu.
I hope the Colts loses just to spite him.And I didn't bother watching the Pro Bowl either. I just found out it was in Miami from this thread.
Things are not offense based in the Big Game though. It's the last game, so there's nothing to lose by sticking it to the offense. When you are a big D guy, you don't have to worry about hitting very hard and perhaps hurting yourself in the process. You have the entire offseason to heal.
Often there are low scores in Super Bowls because the Ds get the green flag to play black and blue football.
You won't see any 35-42 Super Bowls this year. The winner is likely going to win by 10 or fewer points and I would be surprised if either team gets more than 28.
I just don't see one QB tossing 5 TDs vs. the other QB tossing 6 TDs. Steve Young throwing six touchdowns in the Super Bowl was a rare event. And it was Steve Young, the highest rated QB of all time. The Saints and Indys Ds of late have looked downright vicious. The SB will be a defense heavy game this year.
Yes, the press likes to pay attention to QBs, but the deciding factor will be sacks, rushed passes for incompletions, and turnovers...not D penalties.
Good luck completing a pass over 15 yards in the NFL if they change to college PI rules. What I think would be interesting is if someone reviewed every PI call of the past few NFL seasons and charted good calls vs bad calls just to see how accurate the refs are.
Lethal
In today's pass happy NFL,I'll gladly settle for 15 yards from the line of scrimmage, or a spot foul for plays that are less than 15 yards. The problem is that it's a "judgment" call..And that varies from official to official. I wouldn't mind seeing it become reviewable either. Give teams an extra challenge or two for PI calls. I'd gladly let it take an extra five minutes for review if it means getting it right. We'll see what happens on Sunday..